USAF Academy or ROTC

[Comet2]

I'm a High School student in the process of applying for USAFA and/or ROTC at ERAU and I'm inquiring as to which would be considered the best approach given the goal of attending UPT and (hopefully) qualifying for a fighter assignment. The following are my thoughts (dilemmas), please comment with your perspectives and ideas.

1. USAFA receives the same number of UPT assignments as ROTC, however ROTC has a much higher number of cadets so the numbers work in favor of USAFA. However, with that, being a USAFA cadet tends to place you in a more competitive arena for those precious slots than ROTC(?). Is anyone aware of the stats asscociated with the number of candidates vs. the number of selectees in both institutions or where I could find them?

2. Conversely, if I were to attend ERAU, I would be an Aero. Science major which I feel would make me more competent (and competitive) as a pilot candidate entering into UPT. With the dual track system currently in place, I'm told it doesn't leave much time to 'catch up' like in the old days (4-5 months to track?). No disrespect, but USAFA seems to spend a great deal of time in engineering and military sciences courses at the expense of what ERAU focuses on, which is flying. Is there an advantage that I'm unaware of to attending USAFA?

My ultimate goal is, and always has been, to fly a fighter in the USAF. Although cost would be a consideration, it is secondary to this discussion (ROTC doesn't pay for flight courses).

In a nutshell, it boils down to this: one choice appears to make UPT more of a certainty, the other makes the fighter track more certain. Am I seeing this correctly? Obviously I'm willing to do whatever it takes to maximize my chances, I just need to determine what avenue to take. Before I finish, I fully understand that you're an officer first, and it would be an honor to serve as an officer in the AF...but even moreso as a fighter pilot.

Your thoughts, insights, and experience are most welcome.

Respectfully,

C2

 

[USMCAirWinger]

If you want a fighter go guard. If not your cup of tea, join ROTC at any university but riddle.

 

[rod farva]

ROTC, and not at Riddle.

 

[Scrapdog]

I'm a High School student in the process of applying for USAFA and/or ROTC at ERAU and I'm inquiring as to which would be considered the best approach given the goal of attending UPT and (hopefully) qualifying for a fighter assignment. The following are my thoughts (dilemmas), please comment with your perspectives and ideas.

1. USAFA receives the same number of UPT assignments as ROTC, however ROTC has a much higher number of cadets so the numbers work in favor of USAFA. However, with that, being a USAFA cadet tends to place you in a more competitive arena for those precious slots than ROTC(?). Is anyone aware of the stats asscociated with the number of candidates vs. the number of selectees in both institutions or where I could find them?

2. Conversely, if I were to attend ERAU, I would be an Aero. Science major which I feel would make me more competent (and competitive) as a pilot candidate entering into UPT. With the dual track system currently in place, I'm told it doesn't leave much time to 'catch up' like in the old days (4-5 months to track?). No disrespect, but USAFA seems to spend a great deal of time in engineering and military sciences courses at the expense of what ERAU focuses on, which is flying. Is there an advantage that I'm unaware of to attending USAFA?

My ultimate goal is, and always has been, to fly a fighter in the USAF. Although cost would be a consideration, it is secondary to this discussion (ROTC doesn't pay for flight courses).

In a nutshell, it boils down to this: one choice appears to make UPT more of a certainty, the other makes the fighter track more certain. Am I seeing this correctly? Obviously I'm willing to do whatever it takes to maximize my chances, I just need to determine what avenue to take. Before I finish, I fully understand that you're an officer first, and it would be an honor to serve as an officer in the AF...but even moreso as a fighter pilot.

Your thoughts, insights, and experience are most welcome.

Respectfully,

C2

It's not the most enjoyable 4 years, but you'll make the best friends you'll ever make at the zoo (USAF Academy). I'm VERY glad I went there and stuck it out. 8 years later and I've got over 1,000 fighter hours in 3 different types of fighters. It doesn't get much better than that...and it all started out on a sunny July day in Colorado Springs.

You want to fly fighters...well, the Academy certainly WON'T hurt your chances of doing that.

 

[Thedude]

Any one of the Academies will increase your chances down the road. Don't do like I did and turn down West Point because I wanted the AF Academy or nothing.

 

[Desert1]

If you want a fighter go guard. If not your cup of tea, join ROTC at any university but riddle.

Guard can be a tough route as it can be hard to get a slot. It's somewhat political and you're competing with guys coming out of active duty already trained. Although there are limited slots made available, they tend to go to guys already serving within the unit.

Good way to go...if you can get it.

 

[Comet2]

Thanks for the responses.

Why not ERAU?

 

[frog_flyer]

Go do ROTC at a state school and party your ass off.

Get a real major while you're at it. Airport mgt or whatever it is you get from riddle isn't going to do much for you if you lose your medical -- like engineering.

 

[JimNtexas]

"Conversely, if I were to attend ERAU, I would be an Aero. Science major which I feel would make me more competent (and competitive) as a pilot candidate entering into UPT."

The Air Force would prefer an engineering major over an 'Aero Science' major when looking at UPT candidates from AFROTC. I strongly suspect that its an order of magnitude harder to get a UPT slot right out college at Riddle than just about anywhere else, just because there are so many AFROTC cadets who are strongly motivated to be pilots at that school, compared to a 'regular' college.

Pretty much any AFA grad who can fog a mirror will go to UPT.

Your college major will have zero influence on what your end assignment airplane should you get into UPT. I suspect that being an AFA grad might break a tie if there is one fighter assignment for two UPT students, one ROTC and one AFA. But really the UPT management doesn't really care much at all about what you did before you drove through the gate at your UPT base.

Prior flying and aeronautical knowledge will help you at UPT, but only if you forget your prior flying experience during in-processing at your UPT base, and never speak of it during UPT.

AFA grads typically have much less culture shock on their first assignment than AFROTC grads.

I wouldn't get too hung up on flying a fighter, but if that is your life goal then you should consider enlisting in a fighter guard unit and going to college in the local area. If your unit likes you they would probably send you to UPT in the fullness of time. Even then your unit could switch to another airplane or disband entirely at any moment, you never really know.

The good news is that if you can earn a commission, pass the physical, and work hard at whatever assignment you receive after comissioning you'll be picked up for UPT sooner or latter. Never give up.

 

[ExAF]

Usafa

If you are choosing between Riddle ROTC and USAFA then the best path to your goal would be USAFA grasshopper. Good Luck!

 

[bssthound]

If pilot slots get tight it's usually OTS and ROTC who lose them first. The Zoo ( USAFA ) hangs on to theirs. I don't care how well you're doing in school/ROTC, if your school loses pilot slots and yours is one of them . . . too bad.

Your major makes NO difference as to your assignment. Whoever shows up with his game face, ready to excel every day will usually do well. Case in point: my dad taught ROTC. Two of his cadets who were English majors became Eagle Drivers. Another one, who became a Veterinarian after his Active Duty commitment, was a Hog Driver.

I was in a Guard Fighter Unit, well, okay, Tac Recce, that converted to the KC-135. Nowadays, Fighter Units are also converting to UAVs. Whatever the Unit might convert to, it's out of the Line Bubbas' hands.

Bottom line, if you want to fly a fighter you must first go to UPT. Best chance of a slot is The Zoo. Also, a Guard fighter can turn into something else down the road. Best bet of flying and staying in a fighter is Active Duty. You can worry about the Guard/Reserve once your AD commitment is coming up.

Finally, there are guys on this board who did what you want to do. PM them and listen to them. There are also a lot of well-intentioned people out there who haven't "walked the walk;" if you give their "advice" too much merit you might find yourself steered toward where you don't wanna go.

Wishing you the very best of fortune!!

 

[JimNtexas]

http://forums.flightinfo.com/member.php?u=17 bssthound has a good point about Guard fighter units converting to UAVs. That happened in Houston. I noticed not to long ago that the Houston Guard was advertising for people who wanted to go to UPT and then come back and fly UAVs. That could be a great deal for the right person, it might drive the wrong person insane.

 

[JECKEL]

"Go do ROTC at a state school and party your ass off."

That is exactly what I did.

Very late into my senior year in high schoolI decided not to go to the USAFA and turned down my appointment feeling I could party my ass off, do the ROTC thing and the final outcome would be the same.

I did 13 years active duty, I still flew and had a great time. But I feel, till today, that the better way to go, for my personnal satisfaction, would have been the appointments at Annapolis ro the Springs.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[Jafo73]

If pilot slots get tight it's usually OTS and ROTC who lose them first. The Zoo ( USAFA ) hangs on to theirs. I don't care how well you're doing in school/ROTC, if your school loses pilot slots and yours is one of them . . . too bad.

Of course when I graduated from college in '95 nobody had pilot slots, including USAFA (Went to pilot training with a zoomie who graduated in '95 and talked about being pulled into an auditorium and being told they could leave if they wanted too because the pilot slots were gone). You just never know, especially the days... got to be almost lucky to graduate when the pilot demand is high!

 

[Lipper95]

Of course when I graduated from college in '95 nobody had pilot slots, including USAFA (Went to pilot training with a zoomie who graduated in '95 and talked about being pulled into an auditorium and being told they could leave if they wanted too because the pilot slots were gone). You just never know, especially the days... got to be almost lucky to graduate when the pilot demand is high!

the whole getting pulled into an auditorium and told we could leave never happened. (i am a 95 usafa grad too, and might not have been if that were the case.) we did only get something like 275 slots for about 700 qualified guys/gals, so it was very competitive. the majority of those who wanted to go to upt still went after three or so years since the air force is terrible at predicting numbers and there was a shortage after a little while (who would've thought it!) big picture is this: if you can get into the academy, there is a lot to be said for graduating from there as far as the experience and the friends you make. that being said, there are times when i wish i had gone to the university of arkansas and destroyed my liver for four years. all in all, i am happy with the choice i made. as for wanting a fighter and thinking that going to riddle will help with that, it certainly is not a guarantee. as a upt instructor for more than four years, i saw a lot of riddle grads not do well, and a lot do really well. take the advice for what its worth--not much! whatever the choice, good luck. hope it all works out for you! being a part of any military flying unit is about the funnest thing you could ever do!

 

[JimNtexas]

being a part of any military flying unit is about the funnest thing you could ever do!

Amen!

 

[Benhuntn]

If you want to live in a "nanny" state with someone to tell you when to go to bed, wakeup eat, take a dump, go to class, march, iron your uniform, shine your shoes, then go AFA. If you want to learn to live on you own, develop self disipline, become self reliant then go to the ROTC detachment of your choice. Good Luck...

 

[T-1GUY]

I graduated from 2 year ROTC program. I will tell you that just as many of my peers had basket weaving (ie History) degrees and went on to fly fighters as engineering degrees. I don't believe that your school or degree influence whether you will fly fighters. I graduated in 1990. This was the first year that they took away pilot slots from the academy. It can happen. My orders were cancelled while in route to willie. We were given a choice to: Leave, take a new nonflying assignment, or wait for UPT. I waited for two years before they sent me to Del Rio. I will also say that timing has a very big part of getting a fighter. I graduated 7th out of 24 in my class. During this period, only the number one guy got a fighter, and it was a banked assignment at that. I eventually ended up being a T-1 instructor and was part of the group that rated and discussed the assignments for the students. This was about the 2000-2002 time period. The top 1/3 of the class and as many as 50% were getting fighters. Once again, this was pure luck and timing. The differences I noticed between the ROTC grads and the Academy grads were the relationships that were already formed amongst the Academy guys. If your class consists primarily of Academy guys, you can feel like an outsider at times. Luckily, by the end of the year and all the trials and tests, you are all pretty close. I will say that attitude has a great deal to do with getting a fighter IF and thats a big if, there are fighter slots to be filled. I enjoyed my Air Force career. It is the finest pilot training available. I love my career and dont regret not getting to fly fighters. Do your best and hope for the best. Remember, you are an Officer first. You will be assigned to meet the needs of your country. That may mean a 135 in the Dakota's...

Good Luck..

 

[Birdstrike]

Deleted.

 

[AlbieF15]

Both are options.

If you go to the AFA and don't fly a fighter, you'll have still gotten a good education, made some friends in the AF, and flown gliders, jumped out of airplanes, and had some neat base visits. You also will spend time doing lots of stupid $hit, and hiding in closets with your buddies while your roomie bangs a fat chick hoping not to get caught.

In a large state school, you can get the AF to pay for a degree in about any enterprise you care to try. You'll make friends that won't just be in the AF, but in all walks of life when you get out. You can join a fraternity, or get a part time job, or do a work study, or travel a year as a foreign exchange student, or a host of other things you'll never do in the academy. And if you are 18, or 19, or 22 and want to bring a person of the opposite sex over to your apartment to spend the night nobody will say anything about it. You won't get threatened with honor code violations, and you just might have a "normal" young adulthood instead of living in a boarding school environment for some of the most dynamic and interesting years of your life. (note: If you are a chick--disregard. At an academy you just became a movie star regardless of your apprearance or previous popularity in high school. You will have a blast. You are now a Goddess. You rule. At least until 4 days after graduation...) ROTC $ucks, but its 3 days a week for 2 years and if you don't let it ruin your life you can still have a good "typical" college life. At least at Auburn, if one ROTC group plays hardball with pilot slots you could sometimes swap over to another branch...saw that happen a few times for some folks.

All the advantages of an academy disappear the day you show up at UPT. Zoomies, ROTC geeks, and 90 day wonders succeed or fail with about equal ratios during the program.

I've irritated folks before with some of my tongue in cheek comments...but seriously...I flew 2300+ hours in the F-15 and flew my entire 20 year career. AFROTC got me all I needed to get to UPT. And those years at school were so wonderful because of all I got to experience OUTSIDE of the military. I spent all that time from 22-42 serving...I'm glad I got to expereince some thing OUTSIDE the military too before I jumped in.

Why not ERAU? The same reason I didn't want the academy---too limiting. You can get your flight certificates a LOT of places...including 141 schools...for less money while you pursue a degree in things that will back up your life...engineering, finance, medicine, or whatever. The world is covered with folks with Aviation Science/Management degrees (including me...), and a furlough or bad medical means you are back to the drawing board. Chase your aviation dreams while you prepare for a back-up plan outside aviation. And go to a college where there are some girls... Lifes too damn short to hang around dudes all the time.