Union

[Smoke]

Has anyone ever started a union at their work? I am getting tired of the crap at my work and thinking about trying to organize? Any suggestions?

 

[crjdxr]

Has anyone ever started a union at their work? I am getting tired of the crap at my work and thinking about trying to organize? Any suggestions?

Vote with your feet, if possible.

 

[ShutupandFly]

Has anyone ever started a union at their work? I am getting tired of the crap at my work and thinking about trying to organize? Any suggestions?

Don't do it. A union was voted in to my office over two years ago and all it has brought us is a pay freeze and a lot of hard feelings. You really need to understand what you are bringing into your office and your life when look at bringing in a union. You will probably find out after the union is in that they will not even address most of the complaints you have.

If you are really unhappy where you are at It would be much better for everyone involved if you just tried another office. You might find out the place you just left wasn't so bad after all.

 

[pilotyip]

up to four years

Don't do it. A union was voted in to my office over two years ago and all it has brought us is a pay freeze and a lot of hard feelings. You really need to understand what you are bringing into your office and your life when look at bringing in a union. You will probably find out after the union is in that they will not even address most of the complaints you have.

If you are really unhappy where you are at It would be much better for everyone involved if you just tried another office. You might find out the place you just left wasn't so bad after all.

Company can drag out negations for up to four years, during that time nothing changes, no change in pay working conditions, or benefits. Somewhere around three years it will go to arbitration and then maybe delayed for another year. How big is the company? Unions need a certain size to be interest in going through the expense of organizing. Is it a career position? you are probably better foot voting with your feet. Enough pilots do that it will normally get managements attention.

 

[Andy Neill]

Here is a description of the process from the National Mediation Board website:
http://www.nmb.gov/representation/rapply.html

On 23 Mar this year the TWU was certified to represent the dispatchers at PSA. (8 out of 12)
http://www.nmb.gov/representation/deter2007/34n023.pdf
On 3 Nov 2005. the TWU was certified to represent the dispatchers at Ryan Air (7 of 8)
http://www.nmb.gov/representation/deter2006/33n003.pdf
On Aug 10 2005, TWU was certified to represnt the dispatchers at Pinnacle. (17 of 33)
http://www.nmb.gov/representation/deter2005/32n039.pdf

 

[405]

Has anyone ever started a union at their work? I am getting tired of the crap at my work and thinking about trying to organize? Any suggestions?

What kind of "crap" are you talking about? Be careful in thinking a union is the solution to all of the problems at your office. If you do decide to organize a drive and it gets voted in, be prepared for a LONG road to a contract. Also, later on if you and/or your coworkers decide the union wasn't exactly what you were expecting it to be, it's almost impossible to get them out.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Don't do it. A union was voted in to my office over two years ago and all it has brought us is a pay freeze and a lot of hard feelings. You really need to understand what you are bringing into your office and your life when look at bringing in a union. You will probably find out after the union is in that they will not even address most of the complaints you have.

If you are really unhappy where you are at It would be much better for everyone involved if you just tried another office. You might find out the place you just left wasn't so bad after all.

It would have probably been more successful if the thoughts were like this....



Don't do it. A union was voted in to my office over two years ago and all it has brought us is a pay freeze and a lot of hard feelings. WE really need to understand what WE are bringing into our office and our life when WE look at bringing in a union. WE will probably find out after the union is in that they will not even address most of the complaints WE have.

If WE are really unhappy where WE are at, It would be much better for everyone involved if WE just tried another office. WE might find out the place WE just left wasn't so bad after all.


Then again ......resigning your self to your terrorist be saying..it really isn't so bad... is kinda weak...

 

[Jungle_Jet]

Uh, how about going and getting a better job? What happened to that solution?

Put down Marx and Engels, my friend. Just ask UAW workers.

 

[SKC]

On 3 Nov 2005. the TWU was certified to represent the dispatchers at Ryan Air (7 of 8)
http://www.nmb.gov/representation/deter2006/33n003.pdf

It doesn't really matter, but Ryan Air is in Dublin, Ireland. Ryan International is represented by TWU.

FYI, the vote was in Nov 2005, and the contract was signed in late spring of this year, if I heard correctly.

 

[Andy Neill]

It doesn't really matter, but Ryan Air is in Dublin, Ireland. Ryan International is represented by TWU.

FYI, the vote was in Nov 2005, and the contract was signed in late spring of this year, if I heard correctly.

Thanks for that correction and sorry I can't edit it.

I also appreciate the update on the contract. I was wondering what the status was at the other two listed (PSA and Pinnacle).

 

[Smoke]

What kind of "crap" are you talking about? Be careful in thinking a union is the solution to all of the problems at your office. If you do decide to organize a drive and it gets voted in, be prepared for a LONG road to a contract. Also, later on if you and/or your coworkers decide the union wasn't exactly what you were expecting it to be, it's almost impossible to get them out.

The biggest thing is not getting paid for the overtime that we work. We have brought it up to management and they pretty much said sorry about your luck, we dont want to rock the boat. It is just crap like that that makes a lot of people here hate their job.

 

[ShutupandFly]

It would have probably been more successful if the thoughts were like this....



Don't do it. A union was voted in to my office over two years ago and all it has brought us is a pay freeze and a lot of hard feelings. WE really need to understand what WE are bringing into our office and our life when WE look at bringing in a union. WE will probably find out after the union is in that they will not even address most of the complaints WE have.

If WE are really unhappy where WE are at, It would be much better for everyone involved if WE just tried another office. WE might find out the place WE just left wasn't so bad after all.


Then again ......resigning your self to your terrorist be saying..it really isn't so bad... is kinda weak...

I Don't work at HIS office, and it sounds like he has never worked at a union shop before. I am however getting tired of you pilot union chearleaders telling us poor stupid dispatcher that everyone in aviation needs to be paying into a union.

 

[Smoke]

Company can drag out negations for up to four years, during that time nothing changes, no change in pay working conditions, or benefits. Somewhere around three years it will go to arbitration and then maybe delayed for another year. How big is the company? Unions need a certain size to be interest in going through the expense of organizing. Is it a career position? you are probably better foot voting with your feet. Enough pilots do that it will normally get managements attention.

The company has about 4000 employees, but our department would include about 75 employees. The problem is that I really like where I live and this is the only real aviation job in the area. I would have to travel to work a grat distance, or get out of the industry....neither of which I really want to do.

 

[ShutupandFly]

The company has about 4000 employees, but our department would include about 75 employees. The problem is that I really like where I live and this is the only real aviation job in the area. I would have to travel to work a grat distance, or get out of the industry....neither of which I really want to do.

Just be sure you understand what a union can and cannot do before you let them get there claws in you. It really sucks to go a couple of years without a raise and end up with a TA that looks alot like the employee handbook you were working with before.

BTW. our first TA quite a few of us would have taken a pay cut. Still waiting for the new TA.

 

[Smoke]

Just be sure you understand what a union can and cannot do before you let them get there claws in you. It really sucks to go a couple of years without a raise and end up with a TA that looks alot like the employee handbook you were working with before.

BTW. our first TA quite a few of us would have taken a pay cut. Still waiting for the new TA.

What union do you have?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I Don't work at HIS office, and it sounds like he has never worked at a union shop before. I am however getting tired of you pilot union chearleaders telling us poor stupid dispatcher that everyone in aviation needs to be paying into a union.

I never thought stupid at all...

The dispatchers where I work are pretty good....

 

[405]

I never thought stupid at all...

The dispatchers where I work are pretty good....

C'mon Rez. You know what Shutupandfly was saying. How many TWU pilots do we have running around out there? I would say there's not that many ALPA dispatchers either. You're comparing apples and oranges. A pilot and a dispatcher have totally different jobs and work rules. We have a COMMON GOAL but any pilot's argument for dispatchers having a union is completely irrelevant.

 

[dispatchguy]

Stay non-union.

I run the Will Dispatch for Food website (see signature), and nearly every TWU-represented office has a pay scale that is lower (on average) than the overall pay scale for that airline segment.

I have on my website a dispatch office pay comparison, including overall averages of TWU-represented offices. For the large carriers that are TWU-represented, the average deficit from average that a TWU-represented dispatcher gets is about $4800 - in other words, if the industry segment average is $35000, the TWU-represented dispatcher is only getting $30000 and change on an average basis.

About the only good thing coming out of a union shop is protection. When I was at EGF over 9/11, all of us Carribbean dispatchers got caught in a pissing match between the Chief Pilot and the POI, and the union was able to defend all of us as a group.

But, I would look EXTREMELY CLOSELY as to whether making your shop a union shop would fix anything, at least a TWU-represented shop.

 

[hoover]

Has anyone ever started a union at their work? I am getting tired of the crap at my work and thinking about trying to organize? Any suggestions?

You need to give a name to your pain. Saying that you are "tired of the crap at my work" is meaningless. What exactly is going on that you do not like? You need to identify these things, and then give serious consideration as to whether or not a union can "solve" those problems. In my experience, the problems that people vote unions in to solve, are not problems with the company. They are problems with the industry, or with the unrealistic expectations of the worker. Don't expect to vote yes and then magically all your problems disappear. Some might, but they'll just be replaced with new ones.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

C'mon Rez. You know what Shutupandfly was saying. How many TWU pilots do we have running around out there? I would say there's not that many ALPA dispatchers either. You're comparing apples and oranges. A pilot and a dispatcher have totally different jobs and work rules. We have a COMMON GOAL but any pilot's argument for dispatchers having a union is completely irrelevant.

And yet.... someone is asking about it...

 

[405]

And yet.... someone is asking about it...

*sigh*

Okay, Rez. A flight dispatcher asked other flight dispatchers about a union on the Flight Dispatchers & Crew Schedulers thread and not the Regional or Majors thread.

Back to the original subject now.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Oops... sorry.... I looked at it terms of effectiveness... not job title.... I'll ask next time...

 

[405]

Oops... sorry.... I looked at it terms of effectiveness... not job title.... I'll ask next time...

From what I READ on other threads, doesn't seem like any union is effective anymore. Seems to me like it's mostly used to determine whether or not someone gets a ride on the jumpseat.

 

[WalterSobchak]

I've decided that Rez logs in, goes straight to the forum search, and types in "union"...then proceeds to play Union Head Cheerleader in every single one of those threads.

Listen, Rez...I have no problem with a workgroup's choice to unionize. Every house is different and have different challenges...and they deal with them in different ways. That said, most of the union houses in the dispatch world tend to not have alot of the things their non-union brethren have. It's a different world down here on the ground.

I have no problem with you posting in this forum because, as a pilot, I'm sure you have some insight you could share that might help us all do a little better on the dispatch end of things...just as I enjoy sharing things in the Regionals/Majors forums. However, your constant union propaganda gets really old...really fast. And I'm referring to your posts in every forum on FI.

You always talk about how pilots need to participate in their careers and get involved in their local leadership. If the hardcore union pilots of FI.com, like yourself, spent the same amount of time "involved in their careers" as they do here on FI trying to convert the people (of all workgroups) who are OK with not being unionized...maybe you guys would get somewhere in your quest to bring glory and QOL back to the pilot profession. And if those non-union groups get left in the cold...then you can say "I told you so".

The way the pro-ALPA guys mouth off on this site (and, yes, I know that's what people do on an internet forum, but still...) and the way they talk down to those who choose to not be unionized has probably done more damage to converting the masses to your cause than you think.

So, in regard to dispatch unions...I respectfully ask that you bow out of the conversation. It is a decision better left to those who actually work in these offices without outside propaganda from sources that have no dog in the fight.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I've decided that Rez logs in, goes straight to the forum search, and types in "union"...then proceeds to play Union Head Cheerleader in every single one of those threads.

Nope.... but I am really only interested in the union threads... so those are the ones that I click on... oh and some social issues...

Listen, Rez...I have no problem with a workgroup's choice to unionize. Every house is different and have different challenges...and they deal with them in different ways. That said, most of the union houses in the dispatch world tend to not have alot of the things their non-union brethren have. It's a different world down here on the ground.

So...particaption and rolling up your own sleeves is not an applicable mindset in dx unions?

I have no problem with you posting in this forum because, as a pilot, I'm sure you have some insight you could share that might help us all do a little better on the dispatch end of things...just as I enjoy sharing things in the Regionals/Majors forums. However, your constant union propaganda gets really old...really fast. And I'm referring to your posts in every forum on FI.

Particaption in democracy is propaganda? If you think about it...all I am doing is promoting the values of our country: the declaration of Ind., the Bill of Rights and the Consititution. The rights of workers to address greivences and be represented.

You always talk about how pilots need to participate in their careers and get involved in their local leadership.

Is that bad? Or is democracy and self rule too cumbersome?

If the hardcore union pilots of FI.com, like yourself, spent the same amount of time "involved in their careers" as they do here on FI trying to convert the people (of all workgroups) who are OK with not being unionized...

I know I know.... this whole cult like thing called democracy and self government and basic rights.... oh the humanity that I try and convert...

maybe you guys would get somewhere in your quest to bring glory and QOL back to the pilot profession. And if those non-union groups get left in the cold...then you can say "I told you so".

Glory? Great movie....

The way the pro-ALPA guys mouth off on this site (and, yes, I know that's what people do on an internet forum, but still...)

But still? So.... no one is forcing you to log on, read, and reply...

and the way they talk down to those who choose to not be unionized has probably done more damage to converting the masses to your cause than you think.

You might have a point... but they still can't logically argue rejecting democracy and self rule

So, in regard to dispatch unions...I respectfully ask that you bow out of the conversation. It is a decision better left to those who actually work in these offices without outside propaganda from sources that have no dog in the fight.

Or you could not log on, read, and reply....

 

[HASBEEN]

Nope.... but I am really only interested in the union threads... so those are the ones that I click on... oh and some social issues...



So...particaption and rolling up your own sleeves is not an applicable mindset in dx unions?



Particaption in democracy is propaganda? If you think about it...all I am doing is promoting the values of our country: the declaration of Ind., the Bill of Rights and the Consititution. The rights of workers to address greivences and be represented.



Is that bad? Or is democracy and self rule too cumbersome?



I know I know.... this whole cult like thing called democracy and self government and basic rights.... oh the humanity that I try and convert...



Glory? Great movie....



But still? So.... no one is forcing you to log on, read, and reply...




You might have a point... but they still can't logically argue rejecting democracy and self rule



Or you could not log on, read, and reply....

This just gets funnier. No please, keep posting your wisdom here. You are doing more of a favor than you know.

 

[405]

Nope.... but I am really only interested in the union threads... so those are the ones that I click on... oh and some social issues...

So...particaption and rolling up your own sleeves is not an applicable mindset in dx unions?

Particaption in democracy is propaganda? If you think about it...all I am doing is promoting the values of our country: the declaration of Ind., the Bill of Rights and the Consititution. The rights of workers to address greivences and be represented.

Is that bad? Or is democracy and self rule too cumbersome?

I know I know.... this whole cult like thing called democracy and self government and basic rights.... oh the humanity that I try and convert...

Glory? Great movie....

But still? So.... no one is forcing you to log on, read, and reply...

You might have a point... but they still can't logically argue rejecting democracy and self rule

Or you could not log on, read, and reply....

You're so hell bent on not drinking the management koolaid that you seem to have overdosed on the ALPA koolaid. Down drown yourself. Whoa... uh oh.. someone? Too late...

It's all about moderation, Rez.

What has ALPA done for regional dispatchers lately?

 

[shark77]

Union was brought in... And everyone has been happy. Depends on the situation and the people involved.

 

[WalterSobchak]

Depends on the situation and the people involved.

Exactly! Which is why the Rez theory of "a union fixes everything" just doesn't work.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Unions don't fix everything. Neither does the church. Or Gov't.

A union was brought in and not much changed. Why? Some one forget to volunteer? Maybe unions for DX-ers at a regional are not pragmatic. If so then why even talk about them....

And if so... then don't complain about limited rights and say in your pay, work rules, etc..