Union

[405]

And yet.... someone is asking about it...

*sigh*

Okay, Rez. A flight dispatcher asked other flight dispatchers about a union on the Flight Dispatchers & Crew Schedulers thread and not the Regional or Majors thread.

Back to the original subject now.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Oops... sorry.... I looked at it terms of effectiveness... not job title.... I'll ask next time...

 

[405]

Oops... sorry.... I looked at it terms of effectiveness... not job title.... I'll ask next time...

From what I READ on other threads, doesn't seem like any union is effective anymore. Seems to me like it's mostly used to determine whether or not someone gets a ride on the jumpseat.

 

[WalterSobchak]

I've decided that Rez logs in, goes straight to the forum search, and types in "union"...then proceeds to play Union Head Cheerleader in every single one of those threads.

Listen, Rez...I have no problem with a workgroup's choice to unionize. Every house is different and have different challenges...and they deal with them in different ways. That said, most of the union houses in the dispatch world tend to not have alot of the things their non-union brethren have. It's a different world down here on the ground.

I have no problem with you posting in this forum because, as a pilot, I'm sure you have some insight you could share that might help us all do a little better on the dispatch end of things...just as I enjoy sharing things in the Regionals/Majors forums. However, your constant union propaganda gets really old...really fast. And I'm referring to your posts in every forum on FI.

You always talk about how pilots need to participate in their careers and get involved in their local leadership. If the hardcore union pilots of FI.com, like yourself, spent the same amount of time "involved in their careers" as they do here on FI trying to convert the people (of all workgroups) who are OK with not being unionized...maybe you guys would get somewhere in your quest to bring glory and QOL back to the pilot profession. And if those non-union groups get left in the cold...then you can say "I told you so".

The way the pro-ALPA guys mouth off on this site (and, yes, I know that's what people do on an internet forum, but still...) and the way they talk down to those who choose to not be unionized has probably done more damage to converting the masses to your cause than you think.

So, in regard to dispatch unions...I respectfully ask that you bow out of the conversation. It is a decision better left to those who actually work in these offices without outside propaganda from sources that have no dog in the fight.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I've decided that Rez logs in, goes straight to the forum search, and types in "union"...then proceeds to play Union Head Cheerleader in every single one of those threads.

Nope.... but I am really only interested in the union threads... so those are the ones that I click on... oh and some social issues...

Listen, Rez...I have no problem with a workgroup's choice to unionize. Every house is different and have different challenges...and they deal with them in different ways. That said, most of the union houses in the dispatch world tend to not have alot of the things their non-union brethren have. It's a different world down here on the ground.

So...particaption and rolling up your own sleeves is not an applicable mindset in dx unions?

I have no problem with you posting in this forum because, as a pilot, I'm sure you have some insight you could share that might help us all do a little better on the dispatch end of things...just as I enjoy sharing things in the Regionals/Majors forums. However, your constant union propaganda gets really old...really fast. And I'm referring to your posts in every forum on FI.

Particaption in democracy is propaganda? If you think about it...all I am doing is promoting the values of our country: the declaration of Ind., the Bill of Rights and the Consititution. The rights of workers to address greivences and be represented.

You always talk about how pilots need to participate in their careers and get involved in their local leadership.

Is that bad? Or is democracy and self rule too cumbersome?

If the hardcore union pilots of FI.com, like yourself, spent the same amount of time "involved in their careers" as they do here on FI trying to convert the people (of all workgroups) who are OK with not being unionized...

I know I know.... this whole cult like thing called democracy and self government and basic rights.... oh the humanity that I try and convert...

maybe you guys would get somewhere in your quest to bring glory and QOL back to the pilot profession. And if those non-union groups get left in the cold...then you can say "I told you so".

Glory? Great movie....

The way the pro-ALPA guys mouth off on this site (and, yes, I know that's what people do on an internet forum, but still...)

But still? So.... no one is forcing you to log on, read, and reply...

and the way they talk down to those who choose to not be unionized has probably done more damage to converting the masses to your cause than you think.

You might have a point... but they still can't logically argue rejecting democracy and self rule

So, in regard to dispatch unions...I respectfully ask that you bow out of the conversation. It is a decision better left to those who actually work in these offices without outside propaganda from sources that have no dog in the fight.

Or you could not log on, read, and reply....

 

[HASBEEN]

Nope.... but I am really only interested in the union threads... so those are the ones that I click on... oh and some social issues...



So...particaption and rolling up your own sleeves is not an applicable mindset in dx unions?



Particaption in democracy is propaganda? If you think about it...all I am doing is promoting the values of our country: the declaration of Ind., the Bill of Rights and the Consititution. The rights of workers to address greivences and be represented.



Is that bad? Or is democracy and self rule too cumbersome?



I know I know.... this whole cult like thing called democracy and self government and basic rights.... oh the humanity that I try and convert...



Glory? Great movie....



But still? So.... no one is forcing you to log on, read, and reply...




You might have a point... but they still can't logically argue rejecting democracy and self rule



Or you could not log on, read, and reply....

This just gets funnier. No please, keep posting your wisdom here. You are doing more of a favor than you know.

 

[405]

Nope.... but I am really only interested in the union threads... so those are the ones that I click on... oh and some social issues...

So...particaption and rolling up your own sleeves is not an applicable mindset in dx unions?

Particaption in democracy is propaganda? If you think about it...all I am doing is promoting the values of our country: the declaration of Ind., the Bill of Rights and the Consititution. The rights of workers to address greivences and be represented.

Is that bad? Or is democracy and self rule too cumbersome?

I know I know.... this whole cult like thing called democracy and self government and basic rights.... oh the humanity that I try and convert...

Glory? Great movie....

But still? So.... no one is forcing you to log on, read, and reply...

You might have a point... but they still can't logically argue rejecting democracy and self rule

Or you could not log on, read, and reply....

You're so hell bent on not drinking the management koolaid that you seem to have overdosed on the ALPA koolaid. Down drown yourself. Whoa... uh oh.. someone? Too late...

It's all about moderation, Rez.

What has ALPA done for regional dispatchers lately?

 

[shark77]

Union was brought in... And everyone has been happy. Depends on the situation and the people involved.

 

[WalterSobchak]

Depends on the situation and the people involved.

Exactly! Which is why the Rez theory of "a union fixes everything" just doesn't work.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Unions don't fix everything. Neither does the church. Or Gov't.

A union was brought in and not much changed. Why? Some one forget to volunteer? Maybe unions for DX-ers at a regional are not pragmatic. If so then why even talk about them....

And if so... then don't complain about limited rights and say in your pay, work rules, etc..

 

[crjdxr]

The biggest thing is not getting paid for the overtime that we work. We have brought it up to management and they pretty much said sorry about your luck, we dont want to rock the boat.

So the biggest thing is not getting paid for overtime. How are you not getting paid at all, as in anything over your scheduled shift is not paid? What about being assigned a shift on a day off? Is the issue not getting 1.5X for anything over 40 hours?

 

[hoover]

How well are you paid? I worked at a company that was paying starting dispatchers 28-30K (salary) a year depending on experience at a time when the going rate for a new hire disaptcher was about 22K a year. If you are earning considerably above the going rate, you might want to think twice about going union.

 

[dispatchguy]

The biggest thing is not getting paid for the overtime that we work. We have brought it up to management and they pretty much said sorry about your luck, we dont want to rock the boat.

So the biggest thing is not getting paid for overtime. How are you not getting paid at all, as in anything over your scheduled shift is not paid? What about being assigned a shift on a day off? Is the issue not getting 1.5X for anything over 40 hours?

Keep this in mind, technically, by law, you arent required to be paid a premium for working overtime. The Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA) doesnt require the payment of overtime for individuals who are subject to the Railway Labor Act (RLA), which unfortunately, airline employees are.

You are paid an overtime premium by the graciousness of the carrier, or by a collective bargaining agreement.

 

[405]

Unions don't fix everything. Neither does the church. Or Gov't.

No, they don't Rez. In our case, it was kind of difficult to fix something that wasn't broken in my opinion. Opinions differ though and I wish them all good luck in their third year of negotiations.

A union was brought in and not much changed. Why? Some one forget to volunteer? Maybe unions for DX-ers at a regional are not pragmatic. If so then why even talk about them....

You're right on there. Nothing changed and it still hasn't changed. Some dispatch offices may need a union and some may not. I still don't feel like we needed a union. Smoke asked about a union and we're (dispatchers) trying to tell him about our various experiences with them.

And if so... then don't complain about limited rights and say in your pay, work rules, etc..

Who's complaining? They sure complain a lot now. The work rules were fine. Before the TWU got here in my opinion, nothing was unfair, our workload was going down and we got pay raises. Now, they're all stuck in union politics and negotiations. Then again, we have a lot of people there that want to do as little work as possible, complain about everything and get paid. A union is perfect for them.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

No, they don't Rez. In our case, it was kind of difficult to fix something that wasn't broken in my opinion. Opinions differ though and I wish them all good luck in their third year of negotiations.

But yet through democracy...you and your colleagues voted.....

You're right on there. Nothing changed and it still hasn't changed. Some dispatch offices may need a union and some may not. I still don't feel like we needed a union. Smoke asked about a union and we're (dispatchers) trying to tell him about our various experiences with them.

So.... I am excluded?

Who's complaining? They sure complain a lot now. The work rules were fine. Before the TWU got here in my opinion, nothing was unfair, our workload was going down and we got pay raises. Now, they're all stuck in union politics and negotiations. Then again, we have a lot of people there that want to do as little work as possible, complain about everything and get paid. A union is perfect for them.

Hows the attrition rate? I can tell you the attrtition rate on my side of the house leaves more and more unexperienced FO's and CA's flying the jets... Is a high attrtion rate and high new DX average with low expereince better or worse?

Did you get an increase in pay for doing load data? (I don't know...genuine question....)

 

[405]

But yet through democracy...you and your colleagues voted.....

Yes we did.

So.... I am excluded?

Say all you want, Rez. We might read it.

Hows the attrition rate? I can tell you the attrtition rate on my side of the house leaves more and more unexperienced FO's and CA's flying the jets... Is a high attrtion rate and high new DX average with low expereince better or worse?

So far attrition hasn't been too bad on our side. That's going to change soon. Very soon. I'll keep my opinions to myself about everyone being new.

Did you get an increase in pay for doing load data? (I don't know...genuine question....)

Genuine answer to follow. No, we didn't get anything for absorbing CLC. And there won't be anything on the next contract about it either. The TWU won't touch the subject of CLC.

 

[crjdxr]

Keep this in mind, technically, by law, you arent required to be paid a premium for working overtime. The Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA) doesnt require the payment of overtime for individuals who are subject to the Railway Labor Act (RLA), which unfortunately, airline employees are.

You are paid an overtime premium by the graciousness of the carrier, or by a collective bargaining agreement.

Bingo. Again, Smoke, vote with your feet if at all possible.

 

[dispatchguy]

Keep this in mind, technically, by law, you arent required to be paid a premium for working overtime. The Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA) doesnt require the payment of overtime for individuals who are subject to the Railway Labor Act (RLA), which unfortunately, airline employees are.

You are paid an overtime premium by the graciousness of the carrier, or by a collective bargaining agreement.

For your reading pleasure, the citation for this is at http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/29/usc_sec_29_00000213----000-.html at 29 USC 213(b)(3).

 

[RVSM]

FWIW,
1-Unions are only as good as the local elected leadership. Again, only as good as your local elected leadership. Your votes count so pay attention.
2- Been in a union shop for 14 years. No significant complaints. (at least none that a local election cycle didn't cure)
3-Our company decided to "revamp" the department.
Brought in some non union folks to "assist" us in doing what we do. Union said, "You can't have non union folks doing union work." Mgmt said, "Yes, we can."
1 year later: binding 3rd party says, "No you can't"
Without a union, you too can be undercut and outsourced!
3b-If you contract doesn't specifically state all XYZ flights and tails will be dispatched by ABC union dispatchers at DEF location. You better make sure it does next go around before the greedy ##%$&@'s at Jeppesen "outsource" you as soon as they figure out who to pay off to make the rule change happen.

 

[ShutupandFly]

But yet through democracy...you and your colleagues voted.....

Funny thing is during the last vote the union could not even get a majority of the dispatchers to support it.