Union

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I Don't work at HIS office, and it sounds like he has never worked at a union shop before. I am however getting tired of you pilot union chearleaders telling us poor stupid dispatcher that everyone in aviation needs to be paying into a union.

I never thought stupid at all...

The dispatchers where I work are pretty good....

 

[405]

I never thought stupid at all...

The dispatchers where I work are pretty good....

C'mon Rez. You know what Shutupandfly was saying. How many TWU pilots do we have running around out there? I would say there's not that many ALPA dispatchers either. You're comparing apples and oranges. A pilot and a dispatcher have totally different jobs and work rules. We have a COMMON GOAL but any pilot's argument for dispatchers having a union is completely irrelevant.

 

[dispatchguy]

Stay non-union.

I run the Will Dispatch for Food website (see signature), and nearly every TWU-represented office has a pay scale that is lower (on average) than the overall pay scale for that airline segment.

I have on my website a dispatch office pay comparison, including overall averages of TWU-represented offices. For the large carriers that are TWU-represented, the average deficit from average that a TWU-represented dispatcher gets is about $4800 - in other words, if the industry segment average is $35000, the TWU-represented dispatcher is only getting $30000 and change on an average basis.

About the only good thing coming out of a union shop is protection. When I was at EGF over 9/11, all of us Carribbean dispatchers got caught in a pissing match between the Chief Pilot and the POI, and the union was able to defend all of us as a group.

But, I would look EXTREMELY CLOSELY as to whether making your shop a union shop would fix anything, at least a TWU-represented shop.

 

[hoover]

Has anyone ever started a union at their work? I am getting tired of the crap at my work and thinking about trying to organize? Any suggestions?

You need to give a name to your pain. Saying that you are "tired of the crap at my work" is meaningless. What exactly is going on that you do not like? You need to identify these things, and then give serious consideration as to whether or not a union can "solve" those problems. In my experience, the problems that people vote unions in to solve, are not problems with the company. They are problems with the industry, or with the unrealistic expectations of the worker. Don't expect to vote yes and then magically all your problems disappear. Some might, but they'll just be replaced with new ones.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

C'mon Rez. You know what Shutupandfly was saying. How many TWU pilots do we have running around out there? I would say there's not that many ALPA dispatchers either. You're comparing apples and oranges. A pilot and a dispatcher have totally different jobs and work rules. We have a COMMON GOAL but any pilot's argument for dispatchers having a union is completely irrelevant.

And yet.... someone is asking about it...

 

[405]

And yet.... someone is asking about it...

*sigh*

Okay, Rez. A flight dispatcher asked other flight dispatchers about a union on the Flight Dispatchers & Crew Schedulers thread and not the Regional or Majors thread.

Back to the original subject now.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Oops... sorry.... I looked at it terms of effectiveness... not job title.... I'll ask next time...

 

[405]

Oops... sorry.... I looked at it terms of effectiveness... not job title.... I'll ask next time...

From what I READ on other threads, doesn't seem like any union is effective anymore. Seems to me like it's mostly used to determine whether or not someone gets a ride on the jumpseat.

 

[WalterSobchak]

I've decided that Rez logs in, goes straight to the forum search, and types in "union"...then proceeds to play Union Head Cheerleader in every single one of those threads.

Listen, Rez...I have no problem with a workgroup's choice to unionize. Every house is different and have different challenges...and they deal with them in different ways. That said, most of the union houses in the dispatch world tend to not have alot of the things their non-union brethren have. It's a different world down here on the ground.

I have no problem with you posting in this forum because, as a pilot, I'm sure you have some insight you could share that might help us all do a little better on the dispatch end of things...just as I enjoy sharing things in the Regionals/Majors forums. However, your constant union propaganda gets really old...really fast. And I'm referring to your posts in every forum on FI.

You always talk about how pilots need to participate in their careers and get involved in their local leadership. If the hardcore union pilots of FI.com, like yourself, spent the same amount of time "involved in their careers" as they do here on FI trying to convert the people (of all workgroups) who are OK with not being unionized...maybe you guys would get somewhere in your quest to bring glory and QOL back to the pilot profession. And if those non-union groups get left in the cold...then you can say "I told you so".

The way the pro-ALPA guys mouth off on this site (and, yes, I know that's what people do on an internet forum, but still...) and the way they talk down to those who choose to not be unionized has probably done more damage to converting the masses to your cause than you think.

So, in regard to dispatch unions...I respectfully ask that you bow out of the conversation. It is a decision better left to those who actually work in these offices without outside propaganda from sources that have no dog in the fight.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I've decided that Rez logs in, goes straight to the forum search, and types in "union"...then proceeds to play Union Head Cheerleader in every single one of those threads.

Nope.... but I am really only interested in the union threads... so those are the ones that I click on... oh and some social issues...

Listen, Rez...I have no problem with a workgroup's choice to unionize. Every house is different and have different challenges...and they deal with them in different ways. That said, most of the union houses in the dispatch world tend to not have alot of the things their non-union brethren have. It's a different world down here on the ground.

So...particaption and rolling up your own sleeves is not an applicable mindset in dx unions?

I have no problem with you posting in this forum because, as a pilot, I'm sure you have some insight you could share that might help us all do a little better on the dispatch end of things...just as I enjoy sharing things in the Regionals/Majors forums. However, your constant union propaganda gets really old...really fast. And I'm referring to your posts in every forum on FI.

Particaption in democracy is propaganda? If you think about it...all I am doing is promoting the values of our country: the declaration of Ind., the Bill of Rights and the Consititution. The rights of workers to address greivences and be represented.

You always talk about how pilots need to participate in their careers and get involved in their local leadership.

Is that bad? Or is democracy and self rule too cumbersome?

If the hardcore union pilots of FI.com, like yourself, spent the same amount of time "involved in their careers" as they do here on FI trying to convert the people (of all workgroups) who are OK with not being unionized...

I know I know.... this whole cult like thing called democracy and self government and basic rights.... oh the humanity that I try and convert...

maybe you guys would get somewhere in your quest to bring glory and QOL back to the pilot profession. And if those non-union groups get left in the cold...then you can say "I told you so".

Glory? Great movie....

The way the pro-ALPA guys mouth off on this site (and, yes, I know that's what people do on an internet forum, but still...)

But still? So.... no one is forcing you to log on, read, and reply...

and the way they talk down to those who choose to not be unionized has probably done more damage to converting the masses to your cause than you think.

You might have a point... but they still can't logically argue rejecting democracy and self rule

So, in regard to dispatch unions...I respectfully ask that you bow out of the conversation. It is a decision better left to those who actually work in these offices without outside propaganda from sources that have no dog in the fight.

Or you could not log on, read, and reply....

 

[HASBEEN]

Nope.... but I am really only interested in the union threads... so those are the ones that I click on... oh and some social issues...



So...particaption and rolling up your own sleeves is not an applicable mindset in dx unions?



Particaption in democracy is propaganda? If you think about it...all I am doing is promoting the values of our country: the declaration of Ind., the Bill of Rights and the Consititution. The rights of workers to address greivences and be represented.



Is that bad? Or is democracy and self rule too cumbersome?



I know I know.... this whole cult like thing called democracy and self government and basic rights.... oh the humanity that I try and convert...



Glory? Great movie....



But still? So.... no one is forcing you to log on, read, and reply...




You might have a point... but they still can't logically argue rejecting democracy and self rule



Or you could not log on, read, and reply....

This just gets funnier. No please, keep posting your wisdom here. You are doing more of a favor than you know.

 

[405]

Nope.... but I am really only interested in the union threads... so those are the ones that I click on... oh and some social issues...

So...particaption and rolling up your own sleeves is not an applicable mindset in dx unions?

Particaption in democracy is propaganda? If you think about it...all I am doing is promoting the values of our country: the declaration of Ind., the Bill of Rights and the Consititution. The rights of workers to address greivences and be represented.

Is that bad? Or is democracy and self rule too cumbersome?

I know I know.... this whole cult like thing called democracy and self government and basic rights.... oh the humanity that I try and convert...

Glory? Great movie....

But still? So.... no one is forcing you to log on, read, and reply...

You might have a point... but they still can't logically argue rejecting democracy and self rule

Or you could not log on, read, and reply....

You're so hell bent on not drinking the management koolaid that you seem to have overdosed on the ALPA koolaid. Down drown yourself. Whoa... uh oh.. someone? Too late...

It's all about moderation, Rez.

What has ALPA done for regional dispatchers lately?

 

[shark77]

Union was brought in... And everyone has been happy. Depends on the situation and the people involved.

 

[WalterSobchak]

Depends on the situation and the people involved.

Exactly! Which is why the Rez theory of "a union fixes everything" just doesn't work.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Unions don't fix everything. Neither does the church. Or Gov't.

A union was brought in and not much changed. Why? Some one forget to volunteer? Maybe unions for DX-ers at a regional are not pragmatic. If so then why even talk about them....

And if so... then don't complain about limited rights and say in your pay, work rules, etc..