Astar's scope

[penguin22]

So, Astar. DHL has hired Kitty Hawk. I'm assuming you're going to grieve this. Aren't you?

 

[Jurassic Jet]

So, Astar. DHL has hired Kitty Hawk. I'm assuming you're going to grieve this. Aren't you?

Dang ....beat me to it.

 

[hvydriver]

So, Astar. DHL has hired Kitty Hawk. I'm assuming you're going to grieve this. Aren't you?

Yep. Amazingly enough, they get it. We've offered to give them a place to stay while they're here. That's not up to us though. The Canadian guys hang out with us, so I'd think they will be at the bunker too.

 

[penguin22]

So you've filed an injunction restraining DHL from contracting with KHK?

Where is it?

 

[hvydriver]

So you've filed an injunction restraining DHL from contracting with KHK?
Where is it?

Like I'm going to point the way for you. LOL

 

[Cargoav8or]

So you've filed an injunction restraining DHL from contracting with KHK?

Where is it?

..........

 

[penguin22]

Like I'm going to point the way for you. LOL

I would think you'd want to show it to us. After all, it would support your position with your grievance and injunction against ABX.

Where is it?

 

[penguin22]

Where's your court injunction filed? Where's your restraining order to stop DHL from contracting with KHK?

 

[AV8OR]

Where's your court injunction filed? Where's your restraining order to stop DHL from contracting with KHK?

Hey Peng, I know your not really lookin for answers here. Just stirring the pot, OK, I get it. But JIK you don't have afriggin clue about how this happens, it's workin the same way it did before....

A. Violation of scope.
B. Scope grievance file for expidited arbitration.
C. Scheduled arbitration.

Hold the phone hold the phone! DHL takes ALPA to court, ABX management enjoins and throws all of it under the bus because judge doesn't know her a** from a hole in the ground.


D. Go to arbitration.
E. Comply with arbitration ruling.

Right now we're at about B. on the list and all parties have been informed. Tell ya what though, if we get taken to court, I'll let ya know where it's gonna be so you can send your management over to join DHL/Astar in their lawsuit.

 

[shooter]

Hey Peng, I know your not really lookin for answers here. Just stirring the pot, OK, I get it. But JIK you don't have afriggin clue about how this happens, it's workin the same way it did before....

A. Violation of scope.
B. Scope grievance file for expidited arbitration.
C. Scheduled arbitration.

Hold the phone hold the phone! DHL takes ALPA to court, ABX management enjoins and throws all of it under the bus because judge doesn't know her a** from a hole in the ground.


D. Go to arbitration.
E. Comply with arbitration ruling.

Right now we're at about B. on the list and all parties have been informed. Tell ya what though, if we get taken to court, I'll let ya know where it's gonna be so you can send your management over to join DHL/Astar in their lawsuit.

Hey AV8OR, I think what is being brought up here is that you (Astar ALPA) has specifically named ABX in your grievance and for ABX to stop flying DHL freight. Did you change the wording to show:

A> Just named ABX
B> ALL carriers, not just ABX
C> Kitty Hawk along with ABX
D> Other

I think we are at about A right now.

 

[rotor&wing]

Hey AV8OR, I think what is being brought up here is that you (Astar ALPA) has specifically named ABX in your grievance and for ABX to stop flying DHL freight. Did you change the wording to show:

A> Just named ABX
B> ALL carriers, not just ABX
C> Kitty Hawk along with ABX
D> Other

I think we are at about A right now.

shootie,

It's apparent you don't have a clue. How many times has this been explained on here in detail? I've lost count.

Better get back to your cubicle now.

 

[ABXbooger]

It's an ALPA on ALPA crime now...scope 'em out boys!!

 

[rotor&wing]

It's an ALPA on ALPA crime now...scope 'em out boys!!

Funny, just the other day I overheard you boys yapping scope in relation to the CHI buyout. Something about how you would enforce scope against CC and ATI.

But that's different....................LOL

 

[ABXbooger]

No one has said anything about scoping them out. We simply want a seniority merger. Thats what makes us different. Plus, our company actually owns the other carriers, very different scenario.

 

[shooter]

shootie,

It's apparent you don't have a clue. How many times has this been explained on here in detail? I've lost count.

Better get back to your cubicle now.

It's a fishbowl, not a cubicle. Maybe if you would go see a Flight Control office and try to understand what we do, maybe you would have a little more respect.

As far as it being explained; I understand what has been said, while I disagree with your approach I do understand where you think you have ground. You do not seem to understand anything other than what your blinders allow you to see. So I let it be and just let the court rule as the other 3 rulings have come down against your case. Whatever, I don't want to waste my time trying to show you what the rest of the free world can see.

I will however join with Penguin and ask how you are handling the Kitty Hawk flying your routes. You seem to have a problem with ABX flying DHL freight, now you have a carrier not only flying DHL freight, but flying DHL freight in place of your aircraft. If you sit silent and say nothing about that, then the air gets cleared of Astar BS now doesn't it? So, here we are wondering how you treat other carriers compared to how you handled the ABX relationship.

Care to answer?

 

[rotor&wing]

No one has said anything about scoping them out. We simply want a seniority merger. Thats what makes us different. Plus, our company actually owns the other carriers, very different scenario.

Not really, but spin it anyway you like.

 

[rotor&wing]

It's a fishbowl, not a cubicle. Maybe if you would go see a Flight Control office and try to understand what we do, maybe you would have a little more respect.

As far as it being explained; I understand what has been said, while I disagree with your approach I do understand where you think you have ground. You do not seem to understand anything other than what your blinders allow you to see. So I let it be and just let the court rule as the other 3 rulings have come down against your case. Whatever, I don't want to waste my time trying to show you what the rest of the free world can see.

I will however join with Penguin and ask how you are handling the Kitty Hawk flying your routes. You seem to have a problem with ABX flying DHL freight, now you have a carrier not only flying DHL freight, but flying DHL freight in place of your aircraft. If you sit silent and say nothing about that, then the air gets cleared of Astar BS now doesn't it? So, here we are wondering how you treat other carriers compared to how you handled the ABX relationship.

Care to answer?

shootie,

it's already been explained, however it's not the answer you want to hear.

go back into your cubicle and keep dreaming of being a pilot someday.

 

[shooter]

shootie,

it's already been explained, however it's not the answer you want to hear.

go back into your cubicle and keep dreaming of being a pilot someday.

I am a pilot rotor. Maybe you should take my advice and try to understand what Flight Control does.

p.s. it has not been explained how you are adjusting your grievance in regard to Kitty Hawk.

 

[l8fr82hub]

No one has said anything about scoping them out. We simply want a seniority merger. Thats what makes us different. Plus, our company actually owns the other carriers, very different scenario.

I won't speak for the rest of my coworkers at ATI, but I personally hope you're successful in integrating us into your company. I'd hate to see us being pushed into a ABX/Astar pissing match scenario.

 

[rotor&wing]

I am a pilot rotor. Maybe you should take my advice and try to understand what Flight Control does.

Trust me shootie, after 22 years of doing this I know what Flight Dispatch does (you only wish it was Flight Control)

I can do your job, but you can't do mine.

Have a nice day!

 

[shooter]

Trust me shootie, after 22 years of doing this I know what Flight Dispatch does (you only wish it was Flight Control)

I can do your job, but you can't do mine.

Have a nice day!

care to bet on that?

 

[ABXbooger]

l8fr8,

Honestly from the people I have talked to nobody at ABX wants your jobs, we do however want a combined, integrated seniority list. DOH with fences and let's move forward crushing the ACMI competition. Should mean lots of work for all of us.

 

[shooter]

l8fr8,

Honestly from the people I have talked to nobody at ABX wants your jobs, we do however want a combined, integrated seniority list. DOH with fences and let's move forward crushing the ACMI competition. Should mean lots of work for all of us.

I agree. When this is all done, ABX will be one stop shop for everything from charter, long term contract, dom/int, air-ground cargo solutions, training, ground facilities management, maintenance company. When the dust settles, it should be quite the operation.

 

[penguin22]

Hey Peng, I know your not really lookin for answers here. Just stirring the pot, OK, I get it. But JIK you don't have afriggin clue about how this happens, it's workin the same way it did before....

A. Violation of scope.
B. Scope grievance file for expidited arbitration.
C. Scheduled arbitration.

Hold the phone hold the phone! DHL takes ALPA to court, ABX management enjoins and throws all of it under the bus because judge doesn't know her a** from a hole in the ground.


D. Go to arbitration.
E. Comply with arbitration ruling.

Right now we're at about B. on the list and all parties have been informed. Tell ya what though, if we get taken to court, I'll let ya know where it's gonna be so you can send your management over to join DHL/Astar in their lawsuit.

Oh good! It works the same way it did before. So here's the step you left out, ...the one that pissed off every ABX pilot.

-->ALPA files a restraining order to stop DHL from contracting with KHK.

Last time around, you guys did that before ABX enjoined. So where's your TRO against KHK?

 

[HeavyjetDC8]

I won't speak for the rest of my coworkers at ATI, but I personally hope you're successful in integrating us into your company. I'd hate to see us being pushed into a ABX/Astar pissing match scenario.

It's only a pissing match because the Alpo tribe turned it into one. There is/was a win /win scenario but it takes two to dance and somebody ( not to mention names) did unfortunately insist upon sulking in the corner and suing to stop the band from playing. Boo Hoo.


A good question has been asked ref Kitty and the Lawsuit, and taking the refuge of last resort now has the Alpo boys flaming rather than answering.

To reiterate: is Kitty Hawk now named in the lawsuit?

And yes, before it's mentioned; I do live in a cubicle and haven't seen the sun for weeks.

 

[AV8OR]

Peng.

Now that is a good question regarding the TRO that was brought to prevent ABX from flying DHL freight before DHL took us to court, and to be perfectly honest, I do not know, (but since I haven't heard anything regarding filing one), I believe it hasn't been filed. But, glad you brought it up cause it's not a bad idea.

Second, I am truly amazed that some of yall seem to think that we only filed a scope grievance against the ABX flying. AND that it's somehow a personal thing against ABX. I know yall take it personal, but we have filed a scope grievance every time we've felt it was violated.....period. Here's the deal. When we feel our contract has been violated, we grieve it, and it doesn't matter if it pisses off the company, DHL, ABX, NWA, or any other party that we beilieve is in violation, we file it. We considered the tactic others have been known to take of getting pi$$y and sending poop to our management, but, call us crazy, we just filed a grievance instead.

As a side not, seems yalls "superior" position in the ABX/CHI deal is, "Well, we're gonna integrate the seniority lists and solve the problem and so there won't be a scope violation with ABX, and therefore that makes us more charitable toward our newly aquired brethren." Hey ya know what? If yall accomplish that, super. But if ya don't, and lift is transfered, yall aren't gonna file a scope grievance right? That wouldn't be very nice. And yall are nice. A lot nicer that us Astar pilots right?

Good luck. I'll bethe first to let ya know if a TRO is filed.

 

[Fly Astar Jets]

A good question has been asked ref Kitty and the Lawsuit, and taking the refuge of last resort now has the Alpo boys flaming rather than answering.

To reiterate: is Kitty Hawk now named in the lawsuit?

First I think we would all be best served if we kept the derogatory comments out of the discussion.

If your question is in regards to the Grievance 017 has with DHL, No KHK is not named in that or any other action spawned from that action.

Our MEC has been in direct communication with the KHK MEC for quite awhile now and they have been apprised of our situation and concur with our assessment. When we first caught wind of the KHK contract (from the KHK pilots I might add), 017 MEC notified them that a scope violation has occurred, and a Grievance will follow. Our current scope prohibits this type of peak period contracting between November 1 and January 1 without notice to the MEC by September 1 of each year. That notification was not provided. The remedy for a Scope Grievance is through expedited binding arbitration. It remains to be seen if DHL will even show up for the hearing.

I hope this helps

 

[erichartmann]

We considered the tactic others have been known to take of getting pi$$y and sending poop to our management, but, call us crazy, we just filed a grievance instead.

I suppose it amuses you to continually make reference to this alleged incident but personally I have seen no proof it actually occured. Management may have provided proof, but I would not personally be inclined to simply take their word for it. Further, 1224's pilots make up less than 10% of ABX's total workforce. Many of the other +90% dislike our managment more than we do, and they do not have the option of filing grievances. We do have that option. We also know it annoys them.

As a side not, seems yalls "superior" position in the ABX/CHI deal is, "Well, we're gonna integrate the seniority lists and solve the problem and so there won't be a scope violation with ABX, and therefore that makes us more charitable toward our newly aquired brethren." Hey ya know what? If yall accomplish that, super. But if ya don't, and lift is transfered, yall aren't gonna file a scope grievance right? That wouldn't be very nice. And yall are nice. A lot nicer that us Astar pilots right?

We'll see how it goes. Our view is that our scope requires the ATI &CCI pilots to be incorporated into our seniority list. It also provides for fences and seat protection. In other words, we would not be trying to take "their" flying. What ya'll tried and continue to try is a bit different. I fully realize you do not wish to be confused by the facts, so there is no need to reply.

 

[erichartmann]

First I think we would all be best served if we kept the derogatory comments out of the discussion.

If your question is in regards to the Grievance 017 has with DHL, No KHK is not named in that or any other action spawned from that action.

Our MEC has been in direct communication with the KHK MEC for quite awhile now and they have been apprised of our situation and concur with our assessment. When we first caught wind of the KHK contract (from the KHK pilots I might add), 017 MEC notified them that a scope violation has occurred, and a Grievance will follow. Our current scope prohibits this type of peak period contracting between November 1 and January 1 without notice to the MEC by September 1 of each year. That notification was not provided. The remedy for a Scope Grievance is through expedited binding arbitration. It remains to be seen if DHL will even show up for the hearing.

I hope this helps

If I were a betting man I'd say no. DHL has made their position regarding your scope claims clear.

 

[FreightBumper]

First I think we would all be best served if we kept the derogatory comments out of the discussion.

If your question is in regards to the Grievance 017 has with DHL, No KHK is not named in that or any other action spawned from that action.

Our MEC has been in direct communication with the KHK MEC for quite awhile now and they have been apprised of our situation and concur with our assessment. When we first caught wind of the KHK contract (from the KHK pilots I might add), 017 MEC notified them that a scope violation has occurred, and a Grievance will follow. Our current scope prohibits this type of peak period contracting between November 1 and January 1 without notice to the MEC by September 1 of each year. That notification was not provided. The remedy for a Scope Grievance is through expedited binding arbitration. It remains to be seen if DHL will even show up for the hearing.

I hope this helps

DHL has not violated your scope reference Kitty Hawk. Astar has violated your scope by chartering Kitty Hawk. Did I miss something or does your grievance need to be against DHL or Dasberg and his boys?(not his actual boys; his management team.) DHL doesn't need to show for this latest round of mismanagement by the Das and the general.