Mine was a yes

[joe_pilot]

2100 last night. I've been a fence sitter until recently.

Anybody else debate what felt like forever over this?

No matter what happens, I hope everyone will come together (at OO and elsewhere) instead of being divided.

Good luck to all.

Fly Safe.

-JP

 

[79%N1]

what on earth are you talking about?

 

[BoilerUP]

what on earth are you talking about?

Methinks Skywest ALPA vote...

 

[joe_pilot]

Methinks Skywest ALPA vote...

Yup..

 

[rightseatjocky]

I just voted yes for the ASA Ta

 

[utahpilot]

joe_pilot
I am also waiting until tonight to vote. what pushed you over the edge? this has torn me up,and I wish it was easier to decide. it's hard for people who aren't here to understand but I've talked to lots of guys who feel the same way I do.

 

[rtmcfi]

joe_pilot
I am also waiting until tonight to vote. what pushed you over the edge? this has torn me up,and I wish it was easier to decide. it's hard for people who aren't here to understand but I've talked to lots of guys who feel the same way I do.

If you have any friends, or old captains that you respected that have moved on to the majors, give them a ring. They have the least to gain/lose by your vote. You can trust them for unbiased info more than the OC or Mmgnt. Good luck with your decision.

 

[PositionandHold]

If anything, you are voting for job protection.

 

[Gr82Aviate]

If you have any friends, or old captains that you respected that have moved on to the majors, give them a ring. They have the least to gain/lose by your vote. You can trust them for unbiased info more than the OC or Mmgnt. Good luck with your decision.

Those of us that are still here have no reason to be biased either...think about it, we really only want what we think is best for this pilot group, and maybe have a little insight after being around the company long enough to seperate the BS from the truth!

 

[joe_pilot]

joe_pilot

I am also waiting until tonight to vote. what pushed you over the edge? this has torn me up,and I wish it was easier to decide. it's hard for people who aren't here to understand but I've talked to lots of guys who feel the same way I do.

I was really at a deadlock, thinking “yes” one day and “no” the next. The kicker for me was JA’s letter talking about Teamwork. It really pi$$ed me off, to be honest. No, I didn’t make an emotional decision, it just made me think about my responsibility to my pilot group. In the end I decided yes. ​

Like many decisions in my life, I really try to weigh the pros and cons of the different alternatives. Typically, the more important the decision, the more time I spend educating myself and evaluating each of my choices. ​

Some of the cons against the union I came up with were:​

• 1.9 less gross pay​
• Difficulty in removing the Union once in place​
• Conflict of interest between Mainline versus Regional Carriers​
• I dislike the “rah, rah”, “management is evil”, “workers unite” extreme* mentality​
• To a degree, stifles my employer’s ability to react to a rapidly changing marketplace​
• Potentially adds a layer of bureaucracy between me and my management team​
• Though rare, the Union does protect the jobs of people who deserve to be fired.​

Here are some of the Pros on my list:

• Enforceable contract
• Help with certificate actions​
• Help with wrongful termination​
• Loss of medical benefits​
• Formalized grievance process​
• Prevent whipsaw with my ASA fellow pilots
• Industry solidarity*​
• Process to work towards better contract: i.e. work rules, pay, etc.​

*I know some of you are probably offended and shocked that I don’t believe management is inherently evil, but I tend to take a more moderate point of view.​

I believe that there have been very few, if any, evil OO management decisions. The CEO of a publicly traded company’s first responsibility is to his or her shareholders. Period. They are replaced, otherwise. Though there have been a number of my fellow pilots that were treated despicably, this was usually by individuals who hold management positions. That being said, our pilot group deserves better (in the ways that I listed above). This is because in a business where the biggest variables are fuel costs, on-time performance and customer satisfaction, no other group of people affect the bottom line more than the pilot group.​

Looking outside of my own company, I do see that there has been an erosion of quality of life, pay and even respect for us as pilots. The events surrounding September 11th were a legitimate reason for and are one of the biggest root causes of why this started. But as the industry has recovered and the shareholders, CEOs and Lawyers have had their pay return to normal, what has happened to the pilots? ​

I do think that there are some common needs and goals that all pilots share. Fatigue, to name just one. Because of this, I believe all of us working together offer the best solution for change, even if there are the complications that I listed.​

As always,​

Fly Safe.

-JP​

​

 

[jayme]

Well said, JP.

I decided a while ago how I would vote, but fairly recently I got a phone call than convinced me I was right to vote yes.

The FAA called my cell phone (SGU gave them the # without notifying me first) to discuss an aborted takeoff. I just woke up and it caught me off guard, so I spilled my guts. After my explanation I got a "Huh. Well, thanks for your time." I immediately wished I could have said "Let me talk to my union rep first, and I'll get right back to you." I could have talked to the SAPA folks, but then I thought about how one of the SAPA executive board members hung Don Douglas out to dry in court. In the end I did everything right, so I still have my certificates, but it was a rude awakening.

 

[Andy Neill]

Well said, JP.
....The FAA called my cell phone (SGU gave them the # without notifying me first) to discuss an aborted takeoff. I just woke up and it caught me off guard, so I spilled my guts. After my explanation I got a "Huh. Well, thanks for your time." I immediately wished I could have said "Let me talk to my union rep first, and I'll get right back to you."

What you SHOULD have said (as I taught in Basic Indoc) was "I report to the company. The company will tell you what you need to know." When there was a SKYW nosegear up in Dallas, a management type told the crew to go ahead and depart the area. The FAA was livid when they got there without a crew to talk to. They got over it.

 

[SkyNation]

Joe

awesome post. I agree with what you said more than some here would believe.

 

[asapilot]

What you SHOULD have said (as I taught in Basic Indoc) was "I report to the company. The company will tell you what you need to know." When there was a SKYW nosegear up in Dallas, a management type told the crew to go ahead and depart the area. The FAA was livid when they got there without a crew to talk to. They got over it.

To support your point, your issue is with the company more so than the FAA. Skywest should be disclosing it and providing the necessary information and it shouldn't really involve you directly unless there was a FAR violation or other regulatory/safety issue.

In the case of Dallas, I'm sure the FAA was upset with the company for not having the crew available for answers rather than with the crew for not being in the area.

 

[jayme]

Andy, the FAA got my number from SkyWest. If what you are saying is SkyWest policy, they shouldn't have given the FAA my #.

However, my point was that I wished there was somebody I could call whose #1 prioriy was to protect me.

 

[starshipdrvr]

Andy,

As a former SkyWest pilot, I also had them give my cellphone number out to the FAA as well. If the company would really have the pilot group believe that they are out to protect them, maybe they better stop this disturbing habit.

 

[Andy Neill]

Andy,

As a former SkyWest pilot, I also had them give my cellphone number out to the FAA as well. If the company would really have the pilot group believe that they are out to protect them, maybe they better stop this disturbing habit.

I agree with both you and Jayme that SkyWest should not be giving your number to the FAA. Have you asked you Chief Pilot if they would like you reporting directly to the FAA now instead of to the company? Just because the company made a bad decision doesn't mean you should.

 

[Gr82Aviate]

I agree with both you and Jayme that SkyWest should not be giving your number to the FAA. Have you asked you Chief Pilot if they would like you reporting directly to the FAA now instead of to the company? Just because the company made a bad decision doesn't mean you should.

Andy, what exactly do you mean by "just because the company made a bad decision doesn't mean you should"?
You can't possibly be referring to a vote for ALPA can you??? I think his example is just one of many that people are trying to make to show that perhaps there really is a need for ALPA here on the property, and that voting for it would not only not be a "bad decision", but a prudent one!!

 

[bmpilot2003]

I agree with both you and Jayme that SkyWest should not be giving your number to the FAA. Have you asked you Chief Pilot if they would like you reporting directly to the FAA now instead of to the company? Just because the company made a bad decision doesn't mean you should.

Kind of like your bad decision huh?

 

[Dubya]

Andy,

As a former SkyWest pilot, I also had them give my cellphone number out to the FAA as well. If the company would really have the pilot group believe that they are out to protect them, maybe they better stop this disturbing habit.[/quote

Was it our FAA ASAP rep? I'm guessing it was as I had my first involvement in a May incident with Virgin Atlantic and LAX controllers and this is who contacted me. It was nervewracking for a few weeks but I was actually relieved when I finally got to talk to the guy.

My cell phone number is on my bag tag and a "For Sale By Owner" sign in my front yard...I keep hoping Jennifer Aniston will see it and call...but alas...just crew support and my teenager.

W

 

[Andy Neill]

Andy, what exactly do you mean by "just because the company made a bad decision doesn't mean you should"?
You can't possibly be referring to a vote for ALPA can you??? I think his example is just one of many that people are trying to make to show that perhaps there really is a need for ALPA here on the property, and that voting for it would not only not be a "bad decision", but a prudent one!!

Again, an example of hearing what you want to hear. Let me try this again. Just because the company made a bad decision in giving out your cell phone number, doesn't mean that you should make a bad decision in talking directly to the FAA. See? Had nothing to do with ALPA.

 

[Gr82Aviate]

Again, an example of hearing what you want to hear. Let me try this again. Just because the company made a bad decision in giving out your cell phone number, doesn't mean that you should make a bad decision in talking directly to the FAA. See? Had nothing to do with ALPA.

Or maybe it's an example of you "hearing what you want to hear"?? You'll notice I posed this to you as a question, with a question mark at the end?

 

[MYFpilot]

I was really at a deadlock, thinking “yes” one day and “no” the next...

​

I'll second SkyNation's comment, Well stated!! Anyway, I've posted this before, but here's a few questions to ponder and hopefully help you make up your mind...

If you called in fatigued and your chief pilot wanted you in his office ASAP to explain your actions would you want ALPA or SAPA representing you?

If you were involved in an accident or an incident would you want ALPA or SAPA representing you?

If you had issues with your medical would you want ALPA or SAPA representing you?

If you busted a checkride or PC would you want ALPA or SAPA representing you?

If the current management personnel at SkyWest were to change (actually happening as we speak) would you want ALPA or SAPA representing you?

If a crewmember or passenger injured themselves onboard your aircraft would you want ALPA or SAPA representing you?

If we were to merge seniority lists with ASA would you want ALPA or SAPA representing you?

SAPA elections have a 20% voter turnout. Who would better able to unify the SkyWest pilot group ALPA or SAPA?

Do you like working 5 and 6 days in a row, with only two days off in between, it happens every month with PBS to junior and senior crewmembers alike. I know reserves being sent on 5 and 6 day TDY trips (That's 5 and 6 days straight flying away from home with no days off) Who would be better suited to address scheduling issues, ALPA or SAPA?

I hate paying 150 bucks a month for car and homeowners insurance, but what if?

How much is your ATP or Commercial certificate worth to you? ALPA may not get me a raise? but 2% is cheap career insurance.
​

 

[Andy Neill]

Or maybe it's an example of you "hearing what you want to hear"?? You'll notice I posed this to you as a question, with a question mark at the end?

Yeah, that's probably it.

 

[inthegoo]

Hey Andy, forgive me if this has already been covered here but are you still at SkyWest?

I heard you were wrongfully terminated, is this true?

-Goo

 

[Andy Neill]

Hey Andy, forgive me if this has already been covered here but are you still at SkyWest?

I heard you were wrongfully terminated, is this true?

-Goo

You heard wrong... it was a very righteous termination. What are you up to?

 

[inthegoo]

rightous? thats sarcasm right?

what did they terminate you for?

Do you remember me? you taught me emb systems in feb of 2000 (wow im old)

-Jason Ianiro

 

[Andy Neill]

rightous? thats sarcasm right?

what did they terminate you for?

Do you remember me? you taught me emb systems in feb of 2000 (wow im old)

-Jason Ianiro

Remember you well. No sarcasm at all. It was a righteous bust.

Know of any good barbecue places?

 

[inthegoo]

you remember me always talkin BBQ?

thats funny, are you still in SLC?

get down to Blues City Cafe next time you are in MEM, at 2nd and Beale, dont screw around with that half rack B.S. just get the full rack, its only 5 buxx more, lotsa extra sauce on the side, ummm,

man I better go to bed, I am droolin on my leg,

so damn skywest fired ya, was it that Fizer clown?

 

[joe_pilot]

I'll second SkyNation's comment, Well stated!! Anyway, I've posted this before, but here's a few questions to ponder and hopefully help you make up your mind...​

If you called in fatigued and your chief pilot wanted you in his office ASAP to explain your actions would you want ALPA or SAPA representing you?​

If you were involved in an accident or an incident would you want ALPA or SAPA representing you?​

If you had issues with your medical would you want ALPA or SAPA representing you?​

If you busted a checkride or PC would you want ALPA or SAPA representing you?​

If the current management personnel at SkyWest were to change (actually happening as we speak) would you want ALPA or SAPA representing you?​

If a crewmember or passenger injured themselves onboard your aircraft would you want ALPA or SAPA representing you?​

If we were to merge seniority lists with ASA would you want ALPA or SAPA representing you?​

SAPA elections have a 20% voter turnout. Who would better able to unify the SkyWest pilot group ALPA or SAPA?​

Do you like working 5 and 6 days in a row, with only two days off in between, it happens every month with PBS to junior and senior crewmembers alike. I know reserves being sent on 5 and 6 day TDY trips (That's 5 and 6 days straight flying away from home with no days off) Who would be better suited to address scheduling issues, ALPA or SAPA?​

I hate paying 150 bucks a month for car and homeowners insurance, but what if?​

How much is your ATP or Commercial certificate worth to you? ALPA may not get me a raise? but 2% is cheap career insurance.​

MYFpilot,

Thanks for the comments. Just for the record, I did vote yes, hence the title of the thread.

ALPA was the answer that I gave for most of the questions, but I just don't think the question of whether or not to certify a union was as simple as comparing SAPA to ALPA. At least not for me, anyway.

I just want to make sure that after 1400 EST tomorrow, we move forward together. I for one am going to work towards that.

-JP