What's your long term career strategy?

[800Dog]

I like your style. I plan on getting hired with a GOOD major airline, and enjoying the good life for a few years. I would like to retire young and RICH! instead of being unhappy at some second rate airline for years. the pickins are getting slim though.LOL

That's my plan and I am sticking to it.

Retire young and rich? Major airline pilot? Talk about clueless! Try medical/law school or develop an internet startup clueless one.

 

[instructordude]

Go to NetJets then.

Do they hire colonels?

 

[amt]

Dude, just apply for the ones you have people to walk your stuff in...Most airlines are hiring but not necessarily going to pick you just because...

 

[Lear70]

Retire young and rich? Major airline pilot? Talk about clueless! Try medical/law school or develop an internet startup clueless one.

That's not a guaranteed ticket either...

Unless you specialize, docs don't make all that much more than a pilot at one of the majors and has about half a million in med school loans to pay off.

And unless you're a really GOOD attorney with a good firm, they don't make all that much either. I know of several who barely eek out a 6-figure income and they've been doing it for as long as I've been flying (15 years out of college).

Nothing is really that lucrative anymore unless you get into the right "nitch", our profession included.

 

[pilotyip]

good pay

That's not a guaranteed ticket either...

Unless you specialize, docs don't make all that much more than a pilot at one of the majors and has about half a million in med school loans to pay off.

And unless you're a really GOOD attorney with a good firm, they don't make all that much either. I know of several who barely eek out a 6-figure income and they've been doing it for as long as I've been flying (15 years out of college).

Nothing is really that lucrative anymore unless you get into the right "nitch", our profession included.

I think I just heard that airline pay is OK?

 

[800Dog]

That's not a guaranteed ticket either...

Unless you specialize, docs don't make all that much more than a pilot at one of the majors and has about half a million in med school loans to pay off.

And unless you're a really GOOD attorney with a good firm, they don't make all that much either. I know of several who barely eek out a 6-figure income and they've been doing it for as long as I've been flying (15 years out of college).

Nothing is really that lucrative anymore unless you get into the right "nitch", our profession included.

We must be running with different docs and attorneys. My cousin is an ER doc. Left med school with 200k in loans, nowhere close to 500k. He is 42 and makes about 500k a year. Father owns a hospital and his docs make big $$. He just hired two new physicians and they received a 250k signing bonus! The attorneys I know here in ATL make significantly more than any major airline pilot and law school did not cost them any more than a civilian pilots ratings. I will agree with you that some do not make great $. My PCP only makes 100k. She is only 33 though.

 

[Lear70]

I think I just heard that airline pay is OK?

No. I think GP's in this country are woefully underpaid as well for the services they render, as are RN's.

So are we... and I'm a little confused how you made the mental leap from "doctors and lawyers don't make all that much either" to "we're all paid OK"...?

You have some interesting ways of bridging two unrelated facts and trying to correlate them...

800Dog, I guess you have some friends who work in some very well-paid facilities.

I have 3 first cousins who are doctors, 2 first cousins who are RN's, 1 first cousin who's a LNP, and a 2nd cousin who's a Nurse Anesthetist.

One of the docs is doing good, he's a cardio specialist, albeit in a small town, but makes probably $300k a year. Not bad for 42. The other two are GP's and only clear about $100k after they pay all their office staff and various insurances.

They all went to small private church schools for med school, so likely their bills are higher than average, but $200k is pretty low for getting all the way through college and med school.

The Nurse Anesthetist is arguably doing better than the rest of them. She has $80k in student loans, is 29, and is pulling in about $150k a year. 4 years of college, 2 years of nursing school, 2 years of practical experience, then 2 years of NA school and came out making over 6 figures. Not bad...

 

[Black Hawk]

Working in medicine and law is great if you're into it. If you'd rather be somewhere else then any job can be miserable including the high paying ones.

 

[800Dog]

No. I think GP's in this country are woefully underpaid as well for the services they render, as are RN's.



They all went to small private church schools for med school, so likely their bills are higher than average, but $200k is pretty low for getting all the way through college and med school.

200k was for med school only. He paid it off fairly quickly. Not too difficult when one is pulling in 300 to 500k. I cannot understand why anyone would pay over 200k for medical school to become a GP? Difficult to justify. I think most professions are underpaid these days. CEO would be an exception!

 

[560NJA]

Just wondering if any have thought about NJA as a career, especially with the new contract that looks like it will pass. Starting FO could make 60,000+ without trying to pick up overtime and 100 bases to choose from. Just food for thought

 

[PCL_128]

I think I just heard that airline pay is OK?

No, you just heard that the middle class is being crushed by the rich and powerful. Pretty soon, the entire working class will be equally miserable. So, if your idea of "ok" is being just as screwed as the next guy, then yeah, I guess it's ok.

 

[Vspeeds]

Working in medicine and law is great if you're into it. If you'd rather be somewhere else then any job can be miserable including the high paying ones.

I totally agree!

Trust me not all of us have the aptitude for Medicine or Law!
I personally, find them both, as boring professions. Simply cuz I don't have an aptitude for none of them.
I choose this profession & I just gotta keep truckin' along!
Our jobs are more like 6 monthly or yearly jobs, based on medical, line & other proficiency checks.
But I rather be a pilot any day!!!!

My .02 cents folks!

 

[Lear70]

Can't argue that. I love the idea of practicing medicine... but I don't have the head for it.

I can memorize systems diagrams and numbers all day long, but can't recall proper names of muscles, bones, and god knows what kind of new medicines they come out with every month more than a few minutes at a time.

Some people probably just weren't cut out for it...

Law, on the other hand, bores the crap out of me. I turned down a full-ride scholarship to Vandy Law. Twice. Probably stupid of me in retrospect, but it's just too... slimy.

Kind of like becoming an airline CEO...

 

[pilotyip]

unanswered question

No, you just heard that the middle class is being crushed by the rich and powerful. Pretty soon, the entire working class will be equally miserable. So, if your idea of "ok" is being just as screwed as the next guy, then yeah, I guess it's ok.

What is middle class income? is it 46K, 50 percentile, is it 75K, 70 percentile, is in 90K, 80 percentile, is it 110K 90 percentile, what is middle income? When your were commenting about the demise of the middle class, I ask what defines middle class, you went house, cars, good schools, I then ask you to define middle class by income level. I never got an answer; please define it so I can rebuff your answer. Most pilots make a good living compared to the rest of the individuals in this country.

 

[PCL_128]

When your were commenting about the demise of the middle class, I ask what defines middle class, you went house, cars, good schools, I then ask you to define middle class by income level. I never got an answer; please define it so I can rebuff your answer. Most pilots make a good living compared to the rest of the individuals in this country.

I didn't answer your question because I find it to be absurd to pick an income bracket to call "middle class." For one thing, a certain income level here in suburban Atlanta will yield a different quality of life than it will in suburban Detroit, and a much different quality of life than places like NY, SoCal, Coastal Florida, Boston, etc... Income numbers don't address the issue. Actual quality of life does. The fact is, to make a large six-figure income as a Doctor, Lawyer, etc..., you have to work in one of the big cities where such an income doesn't go as far as it does where I live. Doctors that work in suburban and rural areas make much less. So why try to pin it down based on an income strata? Sorry, doesn't make sense. That's why I gave you an answer that includes things that are universal: healthcare, cars, home ownership, etc... These are things that every person in the "middle class" should be able to afford.

 

[pilotyip]

Exactly!

I didn't answer your question because I find it to be absurd to pick an income bracket to call "middle class." For one thing, a certain income level here in suburban Atlanta will yield a different quality of life than it will in suburban Detroit, and a much different quality of life than places like NY, SoCal, Coastal Florida, Boston, etc... Income numbers don't address the issue. Actual quality of life does. The fact is, to make a large six-figure income as a Doctor, Lawyer, etc..., you have to work in one of the big cities where such an income doesn't go as far as it does where I live. Doctors that work in suburban and rural areas make much less. So why try to pin it down based on an income strata? Sorry, doesn't make sense. That's why I gave you an answer that includes things that are universal: healthcare, cars, home ownership, etc... These are things that every person in the "middle class" should be able to afford.

and most pilot can make close to 100K after 10 years in this business. Something I have never made, yet I own a house, 4 cars, an airplane, have a good retirement, living the good life. Am I middle class?

 

[Lear70]

I would say middle class is defined by income in terms of spending power.

Whatever translates to after-tax income enough to buy your average 3 bedroom, 2 bath house in a safe neighborhood, have 2 cars (one for you, one for the spouse), be able to afford 2 kids and save for college AND retirement, and still have enough disposable income left over to take a vacation once a year with the family (plus pay student loans if you have them).

That's more than likely somewhere between $100k and $120k a year pre-tax.

Not going to make that unless you're either a VERY senior Legacy F/O or a CA at a LCC or Legacy (or Netjets or a cush corporate gig).

 

[PCL_128]

and most pilot can make close to 100K after 10 years in this business. Something I have never made, yet I own a house, 4 cars, an airplane, have a good retirement, living the good life. Am I middle class?

I've been in this business for about 7 years now, and the most I've made was $65k last year as an RJ Captain. I would have made about $72k this year if I'd stayed. Now, I'm looking at not breaking the six-figure barrier for about another 4-6 years with our current contract at AAI and the lengthening upgrade times. That will put me at about 12 years to get to that level, and that's assuming that I don't get furloughed or the airline doesn't go tits up or get bought. And by then the purchasing power of that $100k will be even less than it is now. You claim that you're living the good life, but I imagine that your definition and mine are quite different. How old is your house? How 'bout your cars? Do you have bills to send the kids to school/college? Do you take yearly vacations? Etc.... Simply getting by, and actually living a decent QOL are two different things. I don't expect to own two Rolls Royces and a 7,000 sq ft house, but I do expect to be able to buy a new car every few years, have a nice house big enough for a family, and so on. As it stands right now, it's hard enough to even support just myself on what I'm making.

 

[Occam's Razor]

Long term?

1. Enjoy it. I'm responsible for my happiness and my career satisfaction.
2. Leave it better'n I found it.
3. Try to the be the kind of captain that even the F/O's I fly with are sad to see retire.
4. Be known to my neighbors and friends as "that nice guy", and not "that pilot".

 

[C-150ETOPS]

If my memory is correct, pilotyip said he applied to American Eagle somewhere in the late/mid 1990's.

"consider the source" when someone tells you how far 100K goes in a major metro area.

 

[pilotyip]

another thread

If my memory is correct, pilotyip said he applied to American Eagle somewhere in the late/mid 1990's.

"consider the source" when someone tells you how far 100K goes in a major metro area.

1996, about to unemployed, I appled everywhere. However at 10,000+ hours 8500 MEL, 6000 turbin PIC I was not qualifed for AE in 1996 becasue I did not have 500 hrs in the last year. I only had 375 in a KA-200. BTW isn't Detroit a major metro area?, 100K does just fine. New Hire F/O's are buying new homes on USA Jet starting pay.

 

[instructordude]

1996, about to unemployed, I appled everywhere. However at 10,000+ hours 8500 MEL, 6000 turbin PIC I was not qualifed for AE in 1996 becasue I did not have 500 hrs in the last year. I only had 375 in a KA-200. BTW isn't Detroit a major metro area?, 100K does just fine. New Hire F/O's are buying new homes on USA Jet starting pay.

A person has to learn how to budget their money well. It's not that hard.

 

[Jetjockey]

A person has to learn how to budget their money well. It's not that hard.

Especially when they still live in their parent's basement.

 

[trijetter]

My Career is Lost

My new plan of attack is to take a year off on Short Term Disability and then follow it up with years of Long Term Disability. 66 2/3% pay and after a year on short term get a day job to pick up the slack.

 

[get2flyin]

My plan is to get furloughed from my job with a few years of seniority. Then I'll just hang out for 10 years or so doing odd jobs, what ever it takes to get by. Then when my company goes down the toilet and "merges" with another company, I'll throw my DOH around and get recalled into the sweet Captains position I'm entitled to. Hello easy street! I can't wait...it's gonna be awesome! :nuts:

 

[pilotyip]

Amen

A person has to learn how to budget their money well. It's not that hard.

Always live beneath your means, and take 1/2 of every pay raise and direct deposit it some place.

 

[Diesel-9]

Keep my first wife.

 

[instructordude]

Always live beneath your means, and take 1/2 of every pay raise and direct deposit it some place.

Good advice and I'll take it. I think it's fun save at least 20% of my paycheck and watch the compounding interest.

Any other advice?

 

[Lear70]

Keep my first wife.

No doubt...

 

[curtis46]

Keep my first wife.

Lonely or miserable,decision decision ...