Pinnacle ATL Base

[altimaklr]

Have the bids started yet for ATL? Are they going junior or senior?

 

[ChickenSled]

Very Very Senior

Have the bids started yet for ATL? Are they going junior or senior?

Starts in December. Three vacancies filled so far that I've seen.

Lots of very senior guys from the Express I days that were outstation based, never moved, and have had diminished quality of life since Pinnacle hubbed up. Colgan guys, take note, this is something Phil is about to take away from you too.

Some guys I think, just want a change of pace, slats, FADEC, and to get a few hundred miles away from all the anger and bitterness around here.

As to the unresolved pay rate, there were a lot of guys screaming not to bid the vacancy and force the company to deal with the union instead of going to arbitration. If there was no one to fly the 900's, the company would be forced to the table. Didn't work out that way at all. Opinions?

Oh yes, I did hear a rumor that the "company" would be paying reserve pilots the 900 rate only on hours flown, the difference to 75 hour guarantee would be at the 200 rate. Nice. Sounds unbelievable, but they will do it till somebody tells them it is illegal. Then they will appeal a few times till they are forced to pay retro, but by then, you will have probably already quit, and that money will be in the bank. This is the way Pinnacle works.

 

[relief tube]

ATL for Pinnacle huh....enjoy giving those first 15 minutes to the company for free, b/c it'll happen often.

 

[redflyer65]

RT is right on the mark.

15 minutes free to the company on every turn. Thanks to an old 1999 contract.

If you want Atlanta, go to ASA.

Can't wait to see what a cluster it's going to be trying to open a ATL base. How can it be done the cheapest....

 

[flyf15]

As to the unresolved pay rate, there were a lot of guys screaming not to bid the vacancy and force the company to deal with the union instead of going to arbitration. If there was no one to fly the 900's, the company would be forced to the table. Didn't work out that way at all. Opinions?

Way to go guys. Thats great, seriously great. I heard from a friend that one of the biggest loudest voices about not bidding for ATL for this reason apparently... just got awarded an ATL vacancy.

Don't be hypocrites. Stand up for whats good for the gruop guys.

 

[ChickenSled]

Just wanted to clear the 15 minutes over "Trip Value" thing up.

Pinnacle pilots do not give the "first" 15 minutes of every fight away for free. I've seen this before and it is misinformation.

You get paid the average "Trip Value" for an established leg over the last 12 months. If you go over that value, you give 15 free, then get paid minutes after that.

For ATL, the union, and Pinnacle will figure out Trip Values. It will probably just be block, as this will favor the company for now.

Honestly, it usually comes out in the wash. Don't get me wrong, it should be block or better, but it isn't as bad as some of the other work rules at Pinnacle.

 

[PCL_128]

As to the unresolved pay rate, there were a lot of guys screaming not to bid the vacancy and force the company to deal with the union instead of going to arbitration. If there was no one to fly the 900's, the company would be forced to the table. Didn't work out that way at all. Opinions?

Anyone that was talking that way was completely uninformed about the process anyway. Not bidding the vacancy would have done nothing to "force the company to the table." The contract already forces the company to the table on new equipment payrates. Per the CBA, if new payrates can't be agreed to, then the issue goes to an arbitrator and he'll decide the new rates based on market averages and other factors. This is all done before any flying on the new equipment starts. By not bidding for the positions, the company would just displace the junior pilots to those positions per the vacancy section of the CBA. Since they're already required to provide moving days, expenses, etc..., it doesn't make any difference to them who gets the slots. They have the means in the CBA to assign them to somebody, so that's all that they care about. A boycott on bidding ATL would have been ridiculous, and a clear indication that the boycotters don't understand their own CBA.

 

[ChickenSled]

Anyone that was talking that way was completely uninformed about the process anyway. Not bidding the vacancy would have done nothing to "force the company to the table." The contract already forces the company to the table on new equipment payrates. Per the CBA, if new payrates can't be agreed to, then the issue goes to an arbitrator and he'll decide the new rates based on market averages and other factors. This is all done before any flying on the new equipment starts. By not bidding for the positions, the company would just displace the junior pilots to those positions per the vacancy section of the CBA. Since they're already required to provide moving days, expenses, etc..., it doesn't make any difference to them who gets the slots. They have the means in the CBA to assign them to somebody, so that's all that they care about. A boycott on bidding ATL would have been ridiculous, and a clear indication that the boycotters don't understand their own CBA.

T, I agree with you 99%, but I think the CBA said they had till 30 days after flying started. There was a memo in the V-files about a month an a half ago from Devil White saying they would catch up on pay once everything was figured out. It was in there with the memos about vacation slide, PBS, and the 6 day sick policy.

I think the thought process was that if there were nothing but street captains and 2 month FO's flying the 900's out of ATL, the problem would resolve itself rather quickly.

 

[redflyer65]

Initially no trip values, but then the company will push hard for them. I'll be surprised if the company even ask the committee the way things have been going. Daily contract grievances seem to be the norm. Absolute disregard for the agreement that they signed.

At least we have some active arbitration rulings coming up. They can run, but can't hide. Scope ruling should be interesting.

The other interesting side to the ATL flying is how much it will suck off the NWA side. Maybe Phil is hoping Steenland won't be watching. This will be real interesting to watch. Stealing from one major to staff the other. Not good.

 

[pilotdiscretion]

When ATL opens there will not be any trip values for that flying. Everything will be payed at actual block. In May the association and the company will meet to review historical block times and determine if any of the routes changed by 4% up or 8% down and make changes where needed. By May there should be so few routes out of ATL that have historical averages I doubt ATL will have any routes operating under trip value.

When we moved to the DTW neighborhood in May of 2001 runway 4L / 22R was still under construction and we were still operating off the old "golfcourse". Does anyone remember the Red 1 A? A taxi out of less than 30 minutes was unheard of in DTW. 22R opened in December of 2001 but was little help because of the terminal situation. We finnaly moved to the new terminal in late Feb of 2002 but that was little help because Mesaba @#$%^ up the ground handling for the first month. When they made the new trip values in May 2002 every trip value was 20 - 30 longer than what average block times had become at that time.

Sometimes it can work out for you, sometimes it can screw you.

 

[John Pennekamp]

Either way, if you bid ATL and don't live here, I wouldn't sign a long term lease if I were you. Delta's record for keeping it's DCI carriers around long term is not good. Comair, Shuttle America, Freedumb, and SkyWest have all cycled in and out. ASA has been the only constant, but we got our asses handed to us in SLC and LAX.

 

[McNugent]

You guys are just a temporary bandaid Delta has been planning to use because of the ASA contract mess. Now that we have a TA and no threat of a strike don't plan on staying for long.

 

[Tarzan]

You guys are just a temporary bandaid Delta has been planning to use because of the ASA contract mess. Now that we have a TA and no threat of a strike don't plan on staying for long.

I've wondered this exact same thing. How long is Pinch Nickle's contract for?

 

[EMB170Pilot]

Either way, if you bid ATL and don't live here, I wouldn't sign a long term lease if I were you. Delta's record for keeping it's DCI carriers around long term is not good. Comair, Shuttle America, Freedumb, and SkyWest have all cycled in and out. ASA has been the only constant, but we got our asses handed to us in SLC and LAX.

The base opened in July '07 and hasnt closed recently.

Soooooo so far we are constant.

I believe we have a strong chance of keeping ATL a delta connection base a long time with the 15 E-175s coming.

MHO

 

[boknowsASA]

well if you listen to SH at ASA Skywest will be out of ATL by March of 08' and all EMB-170 are going up to JFK.

Oh yah and I also saw 20 CRJ-900's in ASA paint sitting next to the 20 Q-400's in ASA paint they were at Area 51 sorry I couldnt take a pic. LOL

 

[ChickenSled]

Ten Years

I've wondered this exact same thing. How long is Pinch Nickle's contract for?

From the SEC Filing:

Item 1.01 Entry into a Material Definitive Agreement
On April 27, 2007, Pinnacle Airlines Corp. (the “Company”) entered into an agreement with Delta Air Lines to operate 16 CRJ-900 aircraft as a Delta Connection Carrier (the “Delta Connection Agreement”, or “DCA”). The aircraft will be delivered between November 2007 and February 2009, with scheduled service expected to begin in December 2007. The term of the DCA is ten years. Pursuant to the DCA, Delta will assign 16 delivery positions to the Company under Delta’s purchase agreement with the aircraft manufacturer. Delta also has the option to require the Company to purchase an additional seven CRJ-900 aircraft to be operated under the DCA. The Company expects that its Pinnacle subsidiary (the “Operator”) will operate the CRJ-900 aircraft under the DCA.

​

 

[norskman2]

Wtf???

From the SEC Filing:

Item 1.01 Entry into a Material Definitive Agreement
On April 27, 2007, Pinnacle Airlines Corp. (the “Company”) entered into an agreement with Delta Air Lines to operate 16 CRJ-900 aircraft as a Delta Connection Carrier (the “Delta Connection Agreement”, or “DCA”). The aircraft will be delivered between November 2007 and February 2009, with scheduled service expected to begin in December 2007. The term of the DCA is ten years. Pursuant to the DCA, Delta will assign 16 delivery positions to the Company under Delta’s purchase agreement with the aircraft manufacturer. Delta also has the option to require the Company to purchase an additional seven CRJ-900 aircraft to be operated under the DCA. The Company expects that its Pinnacle subsidiary (the “Operator”) will operate the CRJ-900 aircraft under the DCA.

​

Delta could REQUIRE that PCL buy 7 900s on their own dime! That would be funny!

 

[GearUpLightsIn]

well if you listen to SH

WHat is Scotty saying in recurrent lately?

 

[SPDBRD747400]

WHat is Scotty saying in recurrent lately?

"In a matter of weeks the major crew room renovations will be done on C Concourse." I thought it was already done when they painted the bathroom at a total cost of $20! Also why are they painting the doors that awful blue, it was such a terrible job I hope that's not the final product!!!

 

[ohplease!]

The base opened in July '07 and hasnt closed recently.

Soooooo so far we are constant.

I believe we have a strong chance of keeping ATL a delta connection base a long time with the 15 E-175s coming.

MHO

nearly 4 whole months....wow. I guess it is long term then....