Skywest Pilots - ALPA Really Does Care About Small Carriers

[PinnacleDude]

I am a Pinnacle pilot and can say without a doubt that ALPA has been a tremendous help to us. We are currently in contract negotiations with a goal to build on the work done by ASA. However, with only 1300 pilots, we could never afford the expertise and support (medical, legal, financial) on our own.

To help us in this fight, ALPA national has granted us $2 million dollars. That is more than all of the dues money I believe we have paid in the last 5 years.

We had a rally on Wednesday in MSP with the Champion pilots. Another small ALPA carrier. From talking to those who went, we had ALPA pilots from many different airlines. I have included links to the video below.

I sincerely hope you join the ALPA family. In my opinion, the representation (someone to represent you in case the unthinkable happens) and the medical alone are worth it.

Good luck on your decision, and in case someone tells you that ALPA just wants your money, don't believe them. If that was the case, they certainly wouldn't want to represent Pinnacle, Mesaba, Champion or you!

Fraternally,
PinnacleDude

High bandwidth:

http://mmslb.eonstreams.com/alpa/CHA/CHA_10_10_2007_high.wmv


Low bandwidth:

http://mmslb.eonstreams.com/alpa/CHA/CHA_10_10_2007_low.wmv

 

[Lazy8]

I was really hoping that rally would get national press coverage, but I have yet to see anything about it on the news. Did the local stations pick it up?

 

[ohplease!]

HA! bwaaahh haha! oh my god you crack me up!

 

[PinnacleDude]

I was really hoping that rally would get national press coverage, but I have yet to see anything about it on the news. Did the local stations pick it up?

According to the folks in Minneapolis, the local stations were there and at least one aired it.

 

[Godfather]

Are you kidding me?

I am a Pinnacle pilot and can say without a doubt that ALPA has been a tremendous help to us. We are currently in contract negotiations with a goal to build on the work done by ASA. However, with only 1300 pilots, we could never afford the expertise and support (medical, legal, financial) on our own.

To help us in this fight, ALPA national has granted us $2 million dollars. That is more than all of the dues money I believe we have paid in the last 5 years.

We had a rally on Wednesday in MSP with the Champion pilots. Another small ALPA carrier. From talking to those who went, we had ALPA pilots from many different airlines. I have included links to the video below.

I sincerely hope you join the ALPA family. In my opinion, the representation (someone to represent you in case the unthinkable happens) and the medical alone are worth it.

Good luck on your decision, and in case someone tells you that ALPA just wants your money, don't believe them. If that was the case, they certainly wouldn't want to represent Pinnacle, Mesaba, Champion or you!

Fraternally,
PinnacleDude

So explain to me why the Pinnacle MEC or the Pinnacle Pilots have not been jumping on the band wagon to save it's Colgan Brothers and Sisters after the losing the ALPA vote at Colgan. We all heard the warnings from you guys about how bad PT and the rest of his merry men were and what would happen once the vote was over. NEWS FLASH!!!! It happened as predicted and thanks for the warnings. So where is ALPA, the Pinnacle MEC and the PCL Pilots now? Where is ALPA with Colgan right now?

I'm sure 151 Colgan Pilots would like to know the answer too.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

So explain to me why the Pinnacle MEC or the Pinnacle Pilots have not been jumping on the band wagon to save it's Colgan Brothers and Sisters after the losing the ALPA vote at Colgan. We all heard the warnings from you guys about how bad PT and the rest of his merry men were and what would happen once the vote was over. NEWS FLASH!!!! It happened as predicted and thanks for the warnings. So where is ALPA, the Pinnacle MEC and the PCL Pilots now? Where is ALPA with Colgan right now?

I'm sure 151 Colgan Pilots would like to know the answer too.

So you guys had a chance at free will and blew it...so its someone elses fault? Keeping in mind that you didn't have any issues before and now that the Colgan pilots thru democracy have rejected ALPA.... what would you have ALPA do that doesn't counter democracy and the Colgan pilots ability to choose?

 

[Lazy8]

So explain to me why the Pinnacle MEC or the Pinnacle Pilots have not been jumping on the band wagon to save it's Colgan Brothers and Sisters after the losing the ALPA vote at Colgan. We all heard the warnings from you guys about how bad PT and the rest of his merry men were and what would happen once the vote was over. NEWS FLASH!!!! It happened as predicted and thanks for the warnings. So where is ALPA, the Pinnacle MEC and the PCL Pilots now? Where is ALPA with Colgan right now?

I'm sure 151 Colgan Pilots would like to know the answer too.

Are you joking? Colgan pilots had the opportunity to make things change for the better and they blew it.

 

[sinkrate]

So explain to me why the Pinnacle MEC or the Pinnacle Pilots have not been jumping on the band wagon to save it's Colgan Brothers and Sisters after the losing the ALPA vote at Colgan. We all heard the warnings from you guys about how bad PT and the rest of his merry men were and what would happen once the vote was over. NEWS FLASH!!!! It happened as predicted and thanks for the warnings. So where is ALPA, the Pinnacle MEC and the PCL Pilots now? Where is ALPA with Colgan right now?

I'm sure 151 Colgan Pilots would like to know the answer too.

I guess the Colgan pilots were so worried about protecting their SF3 jobs that they were willing to pass on the opportunity to be CRJ CA's at 60 to 70k a year. Pinnacle is essentially hiring CA's of the street. Any CJC pilot with 3k hours could have had a CRJ left seat if they elected ALPA for representation. The Pinnacle MEC was more than willing to negotiate that opportunity for you. CJC pilots didn't so there is very little, if anything the Pinnacle MEC can do for them. In the past Pinnacle had hired a number of CJC pilots. Pinnacle management will make sure that never happens again. If you haven't noticed the Pinnacle pilot group is very occupied with their own contract negotiations.

 

[PCL_128]

So explain to me why the Pinnacle MEC or the Pinnacle Pilots have not been jumping on the band wagon to save it's Colgan Brothers and Sisters after the losing the ALPA vote at Colgan.

As I asked in another thread, what do you expect them to do for the CJC pilots now? Your Colgan brothers rejected representation through a democratic process, and now you expect ALPA to save them despite themselves? Sorry, democracy doesn't work that way. They voted, they've made their bed, now lie in it until it's time for another vote.

So where is ALPA, the Pinnacle MEC and the PCL Pilots now? Where is ALPA with Colgan right now?

ALPA is waiting in the wings until they can legally file for another petition for representation. Until then, there's nothing that they can do for the CJC pilots. Hopefully the 50.5% will pull their heads out of their asses in time for the next vote.

I'm sure 151 Colgan Pilots would like to know the answer too.

I'm sure that the yes voters are smart enough to realize that ALPA can't do much for them now that 50.5% of their "brothers" fu&^ed them over. Perhaps you should lay off the ALPA hatred and start calling up your former coworkers that voted "no" to convince them to vote the right way next time.

 

[PCL_128]

I am a Pinnacle pilot and can say without a doubt that ALPA has been a tremendous help to us. We are currently in contract negotiations with a goal to build on the work done by ASA. However, with only 1300 pilots, we could never afford the expertise and support (medical, legal, financial) on our own.

To help us in this fight, ALPA national has granted us $2 million dollars. That is more than all of the dues money I believe we have paid in the last 5 years.

We had a rally on Wednesday in MSP with the Champion pilots. Another small ALPA carrier. From talking to those who went, we had ALPA pilots from many different airlines. I have included links to the video below.

I sincerely hope you join the ALPA family. In my opinion, the representation (someone to represent you in case the unthinkable happens) and the medical alone are worth it.

Good luck on your decision, and in case someone tells you that ALPA just wants your money, don't believe them. If that was the case, they certainly wouldn't want to represent Pinnacle, Mesaba, Champion or you!

Fraternally,
PinnacleDude

High bandwidth:

http://mmslb.eonstreams.com/alpa/CHA/CHA_10_10_2007_high.wmv


Low bandwidth:

http://mmslb.eonstreams.com/alpa/CHA/CHA_10_10_2007_low.wmv

Looked like a great event. Definitely good to see Captain Donatelli there from the National SPSC. Keep the faith, guys. You'll get the contract you deserve if you stand strong.

 

[MONKEY]

However, with only 1300 pilots, we could never afford the expertise and support (medical, legal, financial) on our own.

To help us in this fight, ALPA national has granted us $2 million dollars. That is more than all of the dues money I believe we have paid in the last 5 years.

I don't know much about the Pinnacle pilot group. I don't know what kind of growth you have had. I don't know when you unionized. But I am pretty sure that you have paid in more than $2 million.

If you had 1000 pilots over the last 5 years each making only $25,000 the group would have earned a total of $125 million.
25000*1000*5=125,000,000.
1.8% of that is 2,250,000

I know that the pilots have made more money than that, which means they have paid in a lot more than the $2 million. I also understand that ALPA has spent more money to help Pinnacle pilots than that $2 million.

There has been a lot of talk that regionals are a money loser for ALPA. I personally believe that is a matter of how you look at the numbers. ALPA has a lot of fixed costs, meaning that no matter how many pilots they have paying dues the costs are the same. For example, ALPA does a lot of good work lobbying congress. This lobby will cost ALPA $X no matter how many pilots they are representing. The ALPA president makes $Y no matter how many pilots they are representing. There are many more costs that work this way.

Because current ALPA members are already covering these costs, any additional revenue (pilot dues) is profit.

Now through the magic of accounting you spread those fixed costs (that are already paid for by current ALPA members) out over the new pilot group (SkyWest), factor in the direct costs of representing SkyWest, and suddenly, ALPA is representing SkyWest out of the kindness of their hearts.

The fact of the matter is; IF SKYWEST VOTES IN ALPA, THEN ALPA MAKES MORE MONEY. To believe otherwise you have to be drunk with Koolaid.

Now you get into the moral dilemma: SkyWest pilots are benefiting from ALPA already. Is it fair and just that they are receiving these benefits without paying for it?

 

[120% Torque]

I don't know much about the Pinnacle pilot group. I don't know what kind of growth you have had. I don't know when you unionized. But I am pretty sure that you have paid in more than $2 million.

If you had 1000 pilots over the last 5 years each making only $25,000 the group would have earned a total of $125 million.
25000*1000*5=125,000,000.
1.8% of that is 2,250,000

I know that the pilots have made more money than that, which means they have paid in a lot more than the $2 million. I also understand that ALPA has spent more money to help Pinnacle pilots than that $2 million.

There has been a lot of talk that regionals are a money loser for ALPA. I personally believe that is a matter of how you look at the numbers. ALPA has a lot of fixed costs, meaning that no matter how many pilots they have paying dues the costs are the same. For example, ALPA does a lot of good work lobbying congress. This lobby will cost ALPA $X no matter how many pilots they are representing. The ALPA president makes $Y no matter how many pilots they are representing. There are many more costs that work this way.

Because current ALPA members are already covering these costs, any additional revenue (pilot dues) is profit.

Now through the magic of accounting you spread those fixed costs (that are already paid for by current ALPA members) out over the new pilot group (SkyWest), factor in the direct costs of representing SkyWest, and suddenly, ALPA is representing SkyWest out of the kindness of their hearts.

The fact of the matter is; IF SKYWEST VOTES IN ALPA, THEN ALPA MAKES MORE MONEY. To believe otherwise you have to be drunk with Koolaid.

Now you get into the moral dilemma: SkyWest pilots are benefiting from ALPA already. Is it fair and just that they are receiving these benefits without paying for it?

You are picking and choosing to make your argument. You are saying the dues money over five years is nearly equal to, if not more, than the two million Alpa pledged this pilot group for their fight. You did not factor in the attorney fees for representing individual pilots, the medical specialists who spent hours that would not have been charged to alpa national for members of this pilot group, and sundry other representation during this five year period. Until you gather up how many billable hours were spent in these areas and others and then combine that with the now pledged two million your argument falls flat on its face and yes we understand what economies of scale are. That is the point this pilot was making in the first place and I quote:

“However, with only 1300 pilots, we could never afford the expertise and support (medical, legal, financial) on our own”

Lastly what if it requires two million more before this fight is over? Are you suggesting banks would give a no interest loan to these pilots to be paid back at 2% per year over the NEXT five years to accomplish their goals?! If you hate unions and you don’t want one at Skywest then just say so but don’t try to make lame attempts to misrepresent the facts to your liking. Also, if you want to be a semantic specialist enroll in the David L. school of “I can’t make a legitimate argument on the issue at hand so I will try to stir the pot and confuse with carefully word crafted sentences that don’t stay on point and ignore the facts.” I hear he is running a special on tuition right now….act fast!

 

[MONKEY]

You are picking and choosing to make your argument. You are saying the dues money over five years is nearly equal to, if not more, than the two million Alpa pledged this pilot group for their fight. You did not factor in the attorney fees for representing individual pilots, the medical specialists who spent hours that would not have been charged to alpa national for members of this pilot group, and sundry other representation during this five year period. Until you gather up how many billable hours were spent in these areas and others and then combine that with the now pledged two million your argument falls flat on its face and yes we understand what economies of scale are. That is the point this pilot was making in the first place and I quote:

“However, with only 1300 pilots, we could never afford the expertise and support (medical, legal, financial) on our own”

Lastly what if it requires two million more before this fight is over? Are you suggesting banks would give a no interest loan to these pilots to be paid back at 2% per year over the NEXT five years to accomplish their goals?! If you hate unions and you don’t want one at Skywest then just say so but don’t try to make lame attempts to misrepresent the facts to your liking. Also, if you want to be a semantic specialist enroll in the David L. school of “I can’t make a legitimate argument on the issue at hand so I will try to stir the pot and confuse with carefully word crafted sentences that don’t stay on point and ignore the facts.” I hear he is running a special on tuition right now….act fast!

First off let me say that I can see the benefits of ALPA. I wont be voting for them, but it will not ruin my day WHEN THEY ARE VOTED IN.

Second, You are so drunk with Kool-aid that you can't think straight.

here is a quote from my post.

I know that the pilots have made more money than that, which means they have paid in a lot more than the $2 million. I also understand that ALPA has spent more money to help Pinnacle pilots than that $2 million.

My numbers were assuming that each pilot made only $25,000 each over a 5 year period. These numbers are way low but show that they still paid in $250,000 more than they were given for this one issue. If you read the second part of my earlier post I said, "I also understand that ALPA has spent more money to help Pinnacle pilots than that $2 million."

If the Pinnacle pilot group made on average $50,000 then they have already paid in $2.5 million more than the $2 million.

The original poster DID NOT UNDERSTAND ECONOMIES OF SCALE and believed that the $2 million was more than they had paid in.

To help us in this fight, ALPA national has granted us $2 million dollars. That is more than all of the dues money I believe we have paid in the last 5 years.

I am simply pointing out that Pinnacle has paid in much more than the $2 million and that ALPA does make money of regional airlines. There is nothing wrong with making money, they offer a lot of great survices, but I find it funny all the Kool-aid drinkers running around saying that ALPA is losing money on them.

 

[Jmoney]

ALPA Bucks!

If you think ALPA doesn't pay for these things, just look at ASA. I think they have sent us far more in the past five yrs. than we have paid in dues. I am grateful that they support us, and I am very happy to have all their legal and political help along the way.

Idiots like Skynation and Joe Merchant aside, any rational person can see that protracted negotiations like the one we just finished would not be possible without an organization like ALPA. SAPA and RJDC do nothing of value for anyone!

-Eat it Skynation!!!!

 

[DoinTime]

IF SKYWEST VOTES IN ALPA, THEN ALPA MAKES MORE MONEY.

ALPA is a non-profit organization. They do not "make" money. If they take in more dues than they can spend it gets put into contingency funds, organizing efforts, infrastructure, or a variety of other things that don't become a dividend.

I am simply pointing out that Pinnacle has paid in much more than the $2 million and that ALPA does make money of regional airlines. There is nothing wrong with making money, they offer a lot of great survices, but I find it funny all the Kool-aid drinkers running around saying that ALPA is losing money on them.

Negotiations over the past three years have already cost the PCL MEC over a half million dollars. This does not include any of the 2-million in grant money. Maintenance of the core structure of the PCL MEC and its committees costs upwards of a hundred thousand per year too and thats assuming all of the legal, professional, and administrative services (and they are immense) provided by ALPA national have no cash value.

PCL is not a "money losing airline" per se. It generates about $850,000 in dues money per year. We are one of many regional airlines that occupy the middle supporting our own weight. Airlines like Colgan however do not generate sufficient income from dues to support their operation. Excess income from airlines like NW, Delta, and United support the operation of the smaller carriers.

 

[thebest]

Why would anyone want alpo? They just make pilots pi$$ and moan and threaten to strike? Then they allow the airlines to take your pay and pension???? Later, they tell you how much money they gave to something that did nothing????????????????? Go alpa?

 

[DoinTime]

They just make pilots pi$$ and moan and threaten to strike?

Show me a non-Union pilot group that can threaten to do anything (other than cower behind a rock while their mgmnt shoves a hot rod up their åss).

 

[yellowfever]

Why would anyone want alpo? They just make pilots pi$$ and moan and threaten to strike? Then they allow the airlines to take your pay and pension???? Later, they tell you how much money they gave to something that did nothing????????????????? Go alpa?

you may be the least intelligent person to ever post on FI.

 

[DX Rick]

Why do you guys have to get on here and post how great ALPA is? Is it to reassure yourself about your Union?
I'm not saying ALPA is good or bad, but just wondering why some of you guys have to come on here and preach to each other how great ALPA is.
When people know they have it good, and fully confident in something, they don't go around bragging and talking it up even more.

 

[cynic]

Yeah.... without ALPA pilots would make less than minimum wage working with almost no days off.

Oh wait... ummm.... yeah.....

The very simple reality is that ALPA has no power at all. Wages are low everywhere. The work rules stink. None of this is news. If you are working at a regional then you took a job knowing the pay was low, the work rules stink and the industry is unstable at best.

Sometimes it seems like you guys just complain that you work in an unstable industry where the pay is low and the work rules stink.