Let's give B19 a chance

[FR8DOG777]

Oh c'mon you all, B-19 doesn't sound like such a bad guy. The more I read his posts the more I am convinced we don't need a union at FLOPS. After all I admit, I voted for fopa because if we were going to have a union I would have liked it to be comprised of our own pilots. I have seen the light, I have so much time on my hands that I spend hours making sure my input is heard from my fellow pilots not even in the fractional organization, besides we are all in this together right? I believe that management has always had our best interests in mind, they just don't have the means to provide the lifestyle we deserve. It's not their fault really. They are just trying to do the best they can with what they have to work with right? That is why I am leading the campaign to vote out the teamsters 1108. I am sure that management will view this as a good faith gesture and things will improve faster than we could ever obtain a contract.

 

[SilverSurfer]

Well I wondered when management would start this bullshiet. It was just a matter of time but I thought it wouldn't start until around the end of the year.

Are you out of you fu(king mind or are you just another management lackey???

 

[skyismyoffice]

Now wait a second, let's here him out...

NOT!

Tell me I hear lots of sarcasm in your post fr8dog...

 

[dime line]

Oh c'mon you all, B-19 doesn't sound like such a bad guy. The more I read his posts the more I am convinced we don't need a union at FLOPS.

After all I admit, I voted for fopa because if we were going to have a union I would have liked it to be comprised of our own pilots

. I have seen the light, I have so much time on my hands that I spend hours making sure my input is heard from my fellow pilots not even in the fractional organization, besides we are all in this together right? I believe that management has always had our best interests in mind, they just don't have the means to provide the lifestyle we deserve. It's not their fault really. They are just trying to do the best they can with what they have to work with right? That is why I am leading the campaign to vote out the teamsters 1108. I am sure that management will view this as a good faith gesture and things will improve faster than we could ever obtain a contract.

dumb azz, who do you think is running our (YOUR) union, some paid "union running firm"? You and B19 at the bar tonight compairing notes?

 

[fischman]

Oh c'mon you all, B-19 doesn't sound like such a bad guy. The more I read his posts the more I am convinced we don't need a union at FLOPS. After all I admit, I voted for fopa because if we were going to have a union I would have liked it to be comprised of our own pilots. I have seen the light, I have so much time on my hands that I spend hours making sure my input is heard from my fellow pilots not even in the fractional organization, besides we are all in this together right? I believe that management has always had our best interests in mind, they just don't have the means to provide the lifestyle we deserve. It's not their fault really. They are just trying to do the best they can with what they have to work with right? That is why I am leading the campaign to vote out the teamsters 1108. I am sure that management will view this as a good faith gesture and things will improve faster than we could ever obtain a contract.

Time to quit hanging out with Cheech and Chong dude. In my opinion, B-19 is a fool.


Vote out 1108? Bad idea, unless you like having your new vacation rules, crappy pay, etc...

 

[B19 Flyer]

Oh c'mon you all, B-19 doesn't sound like such a bad guy. The more I read his posts the more I am convinced we don't need a union at FLOPS. After all I admit, I voted for fopa because if we were going to have a union I would have liked it to be comprised of our own pilots. I have seen the light, I have so much time on my hands that I spend hours making sure my input is heard from my fellow pilots not even in the fractional organization, besides we are all in this together right? I believe that management has always had our best interests in mind, they just don't have the means to provide the lifestyle we deserve. It's not their fault really. They are just trying to do the best they can with what they have to work with right? That is why I am leading the campaign to vote out the teamsters 1108. I am sure that management will view this as a good faith gesture and things will improve faster than we could ever obtain a contract.

Not once have I suggested that the FLOPS guys vote out 1108, not once.

Like I always say, be careful what you ask for. You asked for a union, you have one and all the years of misery that comes with the first CBA and the implemtation period after. Often it's a 3 to five year process that is better spent either elsewhere or not bothering to begin with. That is a helluva lot of time out of your career playing with this process. With each "defensive" post from all of you that are of the opinion unions are wonderful, you make my case to all those at other carriers that it's a long, slow painful process that has massive uncertainties in the end.

While many don't agree with me, the fact is that I experienced nothing but the bad side of unions while working at highly competent airlines. How many of you have been on the receiving end of a union work action. Any of you? How many that post against me have honestly been furloughed or lost income as a direct result of a union action that you didn't want any part of? My guess is that it's very few.

So, for all those that are considering a union in your small fractional, read these boards about how the FLOPS guys are dealing with the process. This is real life folks, and like it or not, bringing a union onto the property isn't as rosy as they make it out to be.

 

[RNObased]

While many don't agree with me, the fact is that I experienced nothing but the bad side of unions while working at highly competent airlines.
.

Wow, highly and competent, two words you don't hear in the same sentence much, when talking about the airlines.

Now I know you have lost it.

 

[GerryG]

Oh c'mon you all, B-19 doesn't sound like such a bad guy. The more I read his posts the more I am convinced we don't need a union at FLOPS. After all I admit, I voted for fopa because if we were going to have a union I would have liked it to be comprised of our own pilots. I have seen the light, I have so much time on my hands that I spend hours making sure my input is heard from my fellow pilots not even in the fractional organization, besides we are all in this together right? I believe that management has always had our best interests in mind, they just don't have the means to provide the lifestyle we deserve. It's not their fault really. They are just trying to do the best they can with what they have to work with right? That is why I am leading the campaign to vote out the teamsters 1108. I am sure that management will view this as a good faith gesture and things will improve faster than we could ever obtain a contract.

This is one of two things, either a trial balloon from management or sarcasm.

If it is the former and you are in fact a leader I would challenge to step up and make your name know to us - either on this web site, or on the 1108's message board. After all our elected union leadership has long ago shown the courage to let us know who they are and lead us. If you don't demonstrate that the same level of courage and conviction, you will be perceived as nothing more than a management inspired tool, who is helping them in their efforts to undermine our union. So let's hear who your are Mr. Leader.

 

[FR8DOG777]

thanks for taking the bait B-19

Sir, no one here cares what your opinion is. You obviously have a vested interest in seeing us not succeed. It is unfortunate you had to cross the picket line in a work action that you did not want. You sold out your fellow pilots and have to live with the consequences of your actions. Your intent is to plant a seed of contention here, I can assure you we will prevail.

Fellow pilots do not be distracted. Focus on doing your jobs professionally. Write up aircraft discrepancies WHEN and WHERE they happen. Do not work O.T., and follow the guidance of our elected 1108 leadership. We will prevail! And yes it is unfortunate management wishes to jeopardize the company. There will be pilots lost in this battle, there will be owners lost in this battle, and yes there will also be non-union social security collecting employee's in Cleveland lost in this battle. Stay strong. I have opened a toll free counseling hotline for those who need moral support. The number is 1 800 BTE ATSHT. When the airplanes legally stop moving the fools running this ship will listen. Just like the UPS strike in 1997, didn't take long to get that resolved after the boxes stopped moving. Looks like that work action at GM didn't pan out either huh? We stay focused on the tasks at hand. I suggest EVERY response give by B-19 henceforth be addressed in the same manner as addressed by one of our brothers in arms at NJA.


SIR NO ONE HERE CARES WHAT YOUR OPINION IS!!!!

 

[Freedom]

Look at this guys Posting history

Oh c'mon you all, B-19 doesn't sound like such a bad guy. The more I read his posts the more I am convinced we don't need a union at FLOPS. After all I admit, I voted for fopa because if we were going to have a union I would have liked it to be comprised of our own pilots. I have seen the light, I have so much time on my hands that I spend hours making sure my input is heard from my fellow pilots not even in the fractional organization, besides we are all in this together right? I believe that management has always had our best interests in mind, they just don't have the means to provide the lifestyle we deserve. It's not their fault really. They are just trying to do the best they can with what they have to work with right? That is why I am leading the campaign to vote out the teamsters 1108. I am sure that management will view this as a good faith gesture and things will improve faster than we could ever obtain a contract.

Either he is exercising extreme Sarcasm, or he has been a management plant all along, just waiting for the proper time to float his Trail Balloon for the Goons back at KCGF.

It really doesn't matter either way. Our Pilots know this is a long, drawn out process. Bottom Line:

2 out of every 3 Flight Options Pilots voted in the Union because based upon management's actions vs their words, we no longer TRUST them.

Did we want a Union. No Sir we did not. But all one needs to do is a little research on how our CEO has treated the Pilot groups he has dealt with in the past, and want no longer enters the equation.

We need a Strong Union, with resources, to fight for Fair Treatment through a Contract when dealing with the likes of Mike, Sanjay, and Bob.

One's only other alternative is to jump ship, which many of our peers have chosen to do. And it almost sounds like B19 is encouraging. The only possible reason I can see for him doing that, is that he hopes to hire enough low time guys just grateful to be flying their 1st jet, that he hopes those Pilots will not be able to see through him, and will help him to decertify the Union, in favor of some management controlled, toothless in house pilot association.

Strap on your seatbelts and shoulder harnesses my friends. This Winter is going to get ugly!

Freedom is not Free.

 

[TurboHonda]

Nice House

B-19,

Did you really pay $750K for your house?

 

[SilverSurfer]

Sir, no one here cares what your opinion is. You obviously have a vested interest in seeing us not succeed. It is unfortunate you had to cross the picket line in a work action that you did not want. You sold out your fellow pilots and have to live with the consequences of your actions. Your intent is to plant a seed of contention here, I can assure you we will prevail.

Fellow pilots do not be distracted. Focus on doing your jobs professionally. Write up aircraft discrepancies WHEN and WHERE they happen. Do not work O.T., and follow the guidance of our elected 1108 leadership. We will prevail! And yes it is unfortunate management wishes to jeopardize the company. There will be pilots lost in this battle, there will be owners lost in this battle, and yes there will also be non-union social security collecting employee's in Cleveland lost in this battle. Stay strong. I have opened a toll free counseling hotline for those who need moral support. The number is 1 800 BTE ATSHT. When the airplanes legally stop moving the fools running this ship will listen. Just like the UPS strike in 1997, didn't take long to get that resolved after the boxes stopped moving. Looks like that work action at GM didn't pan out either huh? We stay focused on the tasks at hand. I suggest EVERY response give by B-19 henceforth be addressed in the same manner as addressed by one of our brothers in arms at NJA.


SIR NO ONE HERE CARES WHAT YOUR OPINION IS!!!!

Dude, that was crazy. You had me going thinking you were for real. Now I see your move, good one. :beer:

 

[GerryG]

Lol

Diddo:beer:

 

[WabiSabi]

With each "defensive" post from all of you that are of the opinion unions are wonderful, you make my case to all those at other carriers that it's a long, slow painful process that has massive uncertainties in the end.

"Defensive"? Ha! You're just the idiot of the month and it is lots of fun to ridicule you because it is so easy.

So, for all those that are considering a union in your small fractional, read these boards about how the FLOPS guys are dealing with the process. This is real life folks, and like it or not, bringing a union onto the property isn't as rosy as they make it out to be. 09-26-2007 22:56

Yes, read about how us FLOPS guys are dealing with the process. We have the solidarity and we are strong. We WILL have a contract and this will contribute to raising the bar on the fractional industry.

The only rosey picture being painted is of you and your puppet masters MS and Sanjay that have deluded yourselves into thinking that you're competent when, in fact, you are running FLOPS into the ground.

You wouldn't understand. Only a professional pilot values their skills and experience enough to resist the Wal-Martization of the industry, not blindly accepting it.

 

[skanza]

B-19,

Did you really pay $750K for your house?

Hmmm, I wonder how you found that out (duh).

 

[fischman]

Sir, no one here cares what your opinion is. You obviously have a vested interest in seeing us not succeed. It is unfortunate you had to cross the picket line in a work action that you did not want. You sold out your fellow pilots and have to live with the consequences of your actions. Your intent is to plant a seed of contention here, I can assure you we will prevail.

Fellow pilots do not be distracted. Focus on doing your jobs professionally. Write up aircraft discrepancies WHEN and WHERE they happen. Do not work O.T., and follow the guidance of our elected 1108 leadership. We will prevail! And yes it is unfortunate management wishes to jeopardize the company. There will be pilots lost in this battle, there will be owners lost in this battle, and yes there will also be non-union social security collecting employee's in Cleveland lost in this battle. Stay strong. I have opened a toll free counseling hotline for those who need moral support. The number is 1 800 BTE ATSHT. When the airplanes legally stop moving the fools running this ship will listen. Just like the UPS strike in 1997, didn't take long to get that resolved after the boxes stopped moving. Looks like that work action at GM didn't pan out either huh? We stay focused on the tasks at hand. I suggest EVERY response give by B-19 henceforth be addressed in the same manner as addressed by one of our brothers in arms at NJA.


SIR NO ONE HERE CARES WHAT YOUR OPINION IS!!!!

You are welcome.:beer:

 

[B19 Flyer]

B-19,

Did you really pay $750K for your house?

Which one?

 

[Myster79]

Which one?

B19 you are right, you are not BOB. If I had to guess, you are a PSM at options. But truthfully I do not care who you are. You are nothing more than a peon. I bet you love posting on here, I am sure you get a good laugh. But we all know what you truly want...You want accepted by other pilots. B19, you will never be one of us. You are a sorry excuse for a person. If you are real true pilot.. you would never sell out one of your own. I hope you are old, because you have no future in aviation. We may not know you were B19, but we will see through you and we will never accept you as one of our own!

 

[B19 Flyer]

B19 you are right, you are not BOB. If I had to guess, you are a PSM at options. But truthfully I do not care who you are. You are nothing more than a peon. I bet you love posting on here, I am sure you get a good laugh. But we all know what you truly want...You want accepted by other pilots. B19, you will never be one of us. You are a sorry excuse for a person. If you are real true pilot.. you would never sell out one of your own. I hope you are old, because you have no future in aviation. We may not know you were B19, but we will see through you and we will never accept you as one of our own!

Sell out? Because I dislike the misery that unions have historically created in the industry?

I don't need to belong to a union to feel "accepted" as many pilots feel they have to. I also don't care about your opinion of me cause I have no opinion of you.

Throughout my career I've been lucky enough to have had a positive impact on more pilots than most as a result of what I do. I enjoy that fact. But I've also deeply suffered personally because of unions, thus I enjoy keeping the converstions alive for all to read so folks can see that it's not as rosy as the rhetoric makes it out to be.

 

[fischman]

Sell out? Because I dislike the misery that unions have historically created in the industry?

I don't need to belong to a union to feel "accepted" as many pilots feel they have to. I also don't care about your opinion of me cause I have no opinion of you.

Throughout my career I've been lucky enough to have had a positive impact on more pilots than most as a result of what I do. I enjoy that fact. But I've also deeply suffered personally because of unions, thus I enjoy keeping the converstions alive for all to read so folks can see that it's not as rosy as the rhetoric makes it out to be.

I highly doubt that.

 

[B19 Flyer]

I highly doubt that.

There are A/C circulars and HBAT bulletins right now that I was on the working groups for that you use as procedures each and every day.

Kinda frosts you doesn't it? :laugh:

 

[Myster79]

There are A/C circulars and HBAT bulletins right now that I was on the working groups for that you use as procedures each and every day.

Kinda frosts you doesn't it? :laugh:

It does not frost me at all. Actually it clears up a lot of questions. I always wondered what incompetent person came up with that stuff. Makes sense now.

Thanks

 

[dime line]

There are A/C circulars and HBAT bulletins right now that I was on the working groups for that you use as procedures each and every day.

Kinda frosts you doesn't it? :laugh:

HBAT bulletins are what? honest question

 

[Myster79]

Sell out? Because I dislike the misery that unions have historically created in the industry?

I don't need to belong to a union to feel "accepted" as many pilots feel they have to. I also don't care about your opinion of me cause I have no opinion of you.

Throughout my career I've been lucky enough to have had a positive impact on more pilots than most as a result of what I do. I enjoy that fact. But I've also deeply suffered personally because of unions, thus I enjoy keeping the converstions alive for all to read so folks can see that it's not as rosy as the rhetoric makes it out to be.

I am not talking about being in a union. I am talking about the fact that you have repeatedly posted on here and you have no support for the pilots. Aren't you guy's called Pilot Support Managers? There's a joke! You are a sell out! You always will be a sell out!

Again, this has nothing to do with the union. This has to do with standing up for what you believe is right. I could never work in CGF. I wouldn't last one hour. I would never try to intimidate another pilot into doing something illegal. That is why you are a sell out, not because you don't support the union!

 

[fischman]

There are A/C circulars and HBAT bulletins right now that I was on the working groups for that you use as procedures each and every day.

Kinda frosts you doesn't it? :laugh:

Frosts me? Not at all.


I'm calling you out. Prove it.

$50 says we hear nothing else on the subject from B-19. He's too much of a coward to have us possibly know his true ID.

 

[skyismyoffice]

HBAT bulletins are what? honest question

Handbook Bulletin for Air Transportation - Not sure if they are used for all Flight Standards Handbooks or just certain ones.

Bob?

 

[Myster79]

He is a PSM. I am almost positive.

 

[B19 Flyer]

He is a PSM. I am almost positive.

You're positively wrong. First decade I was in flight operations and OCC, all the rest of the time in various corporate areas, most of it in management. Am now in a non management support role with oversight of various internal programs. I've been places that most pilots don't care to go but think they want to until they get there and discover it's not quite as easy as it seems. I don't like unions because I've personally seen and experienced too many disruptions to the careers of pilots and rank and file employees. That being said however, doesn't mean that I don't support pilots. Nothing could be further from the truth as my entire career has revolved around making their lives easier.

FYI, an HBAT bulletin is guidance that is given to FAA inspectors that gives direction on how to interpret rules/regulations. Like advisory circulars, they are all developed via various work groups that involve industry as well as FAA. They used to be included in 8400.10 which was recently changed to 8900.10. Good reading material if you can stand the boredom of it all. It's a tough job, but SOMEBODY in the carrier has to keep track of this stuff. And that's as close as I really want to get about what I do.

 

[Hobbes]

Oh, I do this thing at a place, and it is hard. I have the best interests of everyone in mind, so listen to me. I have so much time doing this hard job that no one wants to do that I go on a public website to harrass and debate people working for a company in a different area of my industry altogether, so listen to me!!! I am a good guy, and just want to see to it that your career isn't interrupted....


BWAAHAAAHAA, you freaking idiot. Whether you are BT, a PSM, a FH lackey, it really doesn't matter. You are a waste of DNA!!! The time when you could smear your FUD all over and not have it recognized for what it is has come and gone a long time ago.


The management team at FLOPs is collectively seeing to it that the careers of MANY hardworking professionals is going down the tubes! Look at the exodus of good quality people going on!

I think I will go over to the regional and major carrier sections of this board and spread my opinions now, because I am sure they will be really interested to read all I have to say all day...while I am at it I will probably drop a few notes of wisdom to the cargo guys!

 

[FLYLOW22]

You're positively wrong. First decade I was in flight operations and OCC, all the rest of the time in various corporate areas, most of it in management. Am now in a non management support role with oversight of various internal programs. I've been places that most pilots don't care to go but think they want to until they get there and discover it's not quite as easy as it seems. I don't like unions because I've personally seen and experienced too many disruptions to the careers of pilots and rank and file employees. That being said however, doesn't mean that I don't support pilots. Nothing could be further from the truth as my entire career has revolved around making their lives easier.

FYI, an HBAT bulletin is guidance that is given to FAA inspectors that gives direction on how to interpret rules/regulations. Like advisory circulars, they are all developed via various work groups that involve industry as well as FAA. They used to be included in 8400.10 which was recently changed to 8900.10. Good reading material if you can stand the boredom of it all. It's a tough job, but SOMEBODY in the carrier has to keep track of this stuff. And that's as close as I really want to get about what I do.

Soooo. Basically you are a retread management hack that has no hobbies so you work for gratis and occasionally peanuts. You are likely old and overbearing which is why they stuck you in some cubicle doing research. A "support role" is important, like a bra for instance. I prefer no bra.

Also, you can hardly blame ONLY the Union for your past experiences. Companies that "suffer" from Unionizd labor usually brought the issues on initially and dealt with the Union in the wrong manner.

Ask how many of us want to "burn the place down" today vs. 2005. There has been a fundamental shift in labor management philosophy here at NJA. I am happy to be able to say that.

What we have accomplished at this company since 2005 is historical and unprecidented.

P.S. There is absolutely nothing you can say to add or subtract from my above statement. You are outside looking in and I am relating the above to my experience. Yes, I've been part of Unions I've been ashamed of. I have a four letter word for it. It's called ALPA.