ASA TA summary....

[USCtrojan]

I have to agree with outtahere, from what I've read, I wasn't really impressed. I think a good portion of this TA was negotiated when times were a lot tougher for airlines and our MEC negotiated as such. Now that things are improving, the company sees an opportunity to lock in an agreement which gives us a few improvements while gutting some things that really helped us (ie. premium).

If ASA is truly concerned with on time performance, why would they want to ditch premium? What motivation does a pilot have to get a flight in early if it means a cut in his paycheck? I can see a crew flying along at .74 seeing that they're going to arrive 20 minutes early pulling back to .70 to arrive closer to the scheduled time. Then again, maybe that's what the company wants since the flight would still be on time and there's the gas savings to consider.

Granted, this is only a summary so I'll reserve judgement until I see the final language.

Motivation comes in the form of Profit Sharing. The better we do, the more $$ back in your pocket. With the Duty Rig, I feel we all knew Premium was going to go away. I love the Duty Rigs, at least the way it's shown in the abbreviated version. Your duty day, most likely, will not exceed 12 hours. Takes a chunk out of the 14 hour scheduled days. 6 hours of pay and if they sched you for 14 hours of duty, it's an automatic 8 hours of pay. Not too shabby.

I'm looking forward to the Road Shows and see what else we're missing and seeing.

As far as sitting Ready Reserve at an outstation, that really makes no sense. If the Company has to get you there and bring you back, why would you care where you spend your 8 hours? 2-4 of it would be flying to/from anyway! And most likely you'd be late! Additionally, outstations have how many flights a day? Avg 4, most likely less? So they'd sit you at an outstation 8 hours for 2-3 flights? Looking forward to the Road Shows.

Trojan

 

[Beergut]

I heard the company agreed to provide a special lounge for the ready reserves that will have high-speed internet and satellite tv. I also heard there would be a $5.00 bonus per on time departure. It's all hearsay. I'm really looking forward to the road shows so that some of the gaps on the summary can be filled in.

 

[John Pennekamp]

• Minimum Day Credit
o If a reserve pilot flies more than seventy-five (75) hours of block
time in a month, he will receive credit for such block time plus
three (3) hours and forty-five (45) minutes of credit for each
reserve day(s) for which he did not receive a flight assignment
in the month.

So basically reserves will be used right up to 75 hours per month. And they won't use you for more than 4 hours per day. That means lots of trips to the airport for one round trip. Nice... not. Way to create a loophole big enough to drive an 18 wheeler through.

 

[John Pennekamp]

? For example, when flying a NAP line, you have contracted to fly 40 hrs for a
guarantee of 75 hrs, therefore if you drop 10 hours you have dropped 25% of
what you contracted to fly, your guarantee will now be 56.25 hours [75 – (10
x 75 / 40)]. This calculation will take place at the end of the month, so a pilot
has the opportunity to pick up time to negate the loss of the 10 hrs.

Ouch! BOHICA nap pilots. Way to adopt the company (Nelson D) proration plan word for word. This is complete and utter BS. Don't give me the "you contracted to fly 40 hours" B.S. If I drop 10 hours, then I should lose 10 hours. Period!

 

[GeekMaster]

Motivation comes in the form of Profit Sharing. The better we do, the more $$ back in your pocket. With the Duty Rig, I feel we all knew Premium was going to go away. I love the Duty Rigs, at least the way it's shown in the abbreviated version. Your duty day, most likely, will not exceed 12 hours. Takes a chunk out of the 14 hour scheduled days. 6 hours of pay and if they sched you for 14 hours of duty, it's an automatic 8 hours of pay. Not too shabby.

I'm looking forward to the Road Shows and see what else we're missing and seeing.

As far as sitting Ready Reserve at an outstation, that really makes no sense. If the Company has to get you there and bring you back, why would you care where you spend your 8 hours? 2-4 of it would be flying to/from anyway! And most likely you'd be late! Additionally, outstations have how many flights a day? Avg 4, most likely less? So they'd sit you at an outstation 8 hours for 2-3 flights? Looking forward to the Road Shows.

Trojan

If the company sends ready reserves to an outstation, expect it to be places like CVG and CAE where there are MANY flights both to and from ATL and OTHER destinations. Those are the places where the likelihood of a crew issue would most likely arise therefore benefited by a ready reserve.

 

[USCtrojan]

If the company sends ready reserves to an outstation, expect it to be places like CVG and CAE where there are MANY flights both to and from ATL and OTHER destinations. Those are the places where the likelihood of a crew issue would most likely arise therefore benefited by a ready reserve.

Good point. However, if you have to sit, would you care where it was? If you're flying, even better. I just don't see this being an issue. 8 hours of sitting + a flight there, + a flight home (assuming you don't fly), means around 3-4 hours sitting at an outstation. And that's assuming you're on time, which, well......

Trojan

 

[GeekMaster]

So basically reserves will be used right up to 75 hours per month. And they won't use you for more than 4 hours per day. That means lots of trips to the airport for one round trip. Nice... not. Way to create a loophole big enough to drive an 18 wheeler through.

"CAN" they use a reserve in this way? Yes of course. In actuality, reserves are going to be used according to NEED. Sometimes it'll be to cover a sick call for an entire 4 day trip, sometimes to go get an A/C in MCN.

The question is how are they allowed to use reserves now and will this "improve" with the new system. I think it will. Also, remember it's about supply and demand. If we are FAT on pilots, they are ALWAYS going to do the best they can to keep as many under guarantee as possible. That's business. In our favor, supply and demand is weighted toward the pilot's side for the foreseeable future.

 

[John Pennekamp]

? Back Side of the Clock (BOTC) Duty Period
• If duty intrudes on the time period (0115-0359) it will be considered BOTC.
• Preceded by 11 hours rest
• Max duty time of 11 hours
• Followed by 12 hours of rest (reducible to 11)
• May not depart Domicile more than 2 times
• No more than 4 take-offs
• Hotel room provided if breaks exceed 4 hours

Will this apply to naps?

 

[GeekMaster]

Good point. However, if you have to sit, would you care where it was? If you're flying, even better. I just don't see this being an issue. 8 hours of sitting + a flight there, + a flight home (assuming you don't fly), means around 3-4 hours sitting at an outstation. And that's assuming you're on time, which, well......

Trojan

We are in 100% agreement. I could care less WHERE. Matter of fact, the deadhead will give me something to do. A more important point here hasn't been mentioned. If they choose to send a ready reserve to an outstation, the company will be looking for efficiency too. They would be looking to take a guy who has two or more days in a row of ready reserve to an outstation and leave him there overnight in a hotel. I can't tell from the TA highlights whether it is permissable. Would I object to that? Not really. At least he's gettin per diem for it and he can only do a certain number of ready reserve days anyway.

 

[USCtrojan]

Will this apply to naps?

That's what I was assuming....I don't know how that will be "Rigged."

Trojan

 

[John Pennekamp]

? Lines will be constructed in the following manner as long as it does not interfere with the operation:
1. First, identical trips departing on the same days each week; then
2. Similar trips departing on the same days each week; then
3. Different trips departing on the same days each week

Note the bold print. More wiggle language that will make this completely useless. You know ASA will cry that pure lines "interfere with the operation". There seems to be way too much loose language in the contract.

 

[USCtrojan]

We are in 100% agreement. I could care less WHERE. Matter of fact, the deadhead will give me something to do. A more important point here hasn't been mentioned. If they choose to send a ready reserve to an outstation, the company will be looking for efficiency too. They would be looking to take a guy who has two or more days in a row of ready reserve to an outstation and leave him there overnight in a hotel. I can't tell from the TA highlights whether it is permissable. Would I object to that? Not really. At least he's gettin per diem for it and he can only do a certain number of ready reserve days anyway.

Agreed, I just don't seeing them using this at all. I like that everyone is looking how to get screwed. This will raise great questions at the Roadshows. This won't be an issue, because it's just not efficient. Like a lot of things. I think from what I read, The Company can do some things to keep their flexibility, it's just gonna cost a lot. Great, they keep it to a minimum. If that's the point, then I get it.

Trojan

 

[John Pennekamp]

o A pilot will have the ability to swap to a trip that has one day of work less than his
original trip provided it is not a restricted day.

AKA "low coverage" every day. You can see that one coming.

 

[GeekMaster]

Note the bold print. More wiggle language that will make this completely useless. You know ASA will cry that pure lines "interfere with the operation". There seems to be way too much loose language in the contract.

WE are ALL of the current mentality that management is the incomptent evil empire and RIGHTLY SO as they have ceased every opportunity to prove it. Expect a complete hosing of all the decision makers, followed by replacement by a mix of SKW people and some ASA people who are actually respected.

Side note: This is NOT IN ANYWAY suggesting Fred Lambert will be the new VP of Flt Ops.

Skw knows we don't trust them. They know they need to regain that trust to be successful in their next venture. IT WILL GET BETTER.

 

[USCtrojan]

Note the bold print. More wiggle language that will make this completely useless. You know ASA will cry that pure lines "interfere with the operation". There seems to be way too much loose language in the contract.

This is a highlite....The actual language we'll see shortly. Additionally, we'll be able to see how the MEC came to the conclusions they did, and why certain paths were chosen. That, I believe, will be the greatest asset to the Roadshows.

Trojan

 

[John Pennekamp]

Rescheduling and Extending
o Assignment window – A pilot being rescheduled will not be required to remain
available beyond the assignment window at a domicile airport without an assignment
ASA ALPA Negotiator’s Notepad 15
for more than two hours on a non IROP (Irregular Operation) day and five hours for
IROP days.

WTFO? So now they can keep us there on "standby" for two hours after our trip was supposed to end on regular days, and 5 hours on "IROP days" (every day for ASA)?!!!!!

 

[John Pennekamp]

Call-out times
? Short call will be given at least 120 minutes to report from the first contact
attempt, with a 15-minute response time.
? Long call will have at least 12 hours to report, with a 60-minute response
time.
? A ready reserve pilot will have up to 10 minutes to respond.

There's a concession. We already have language defining a contact as two way communication. Now the 2 hour clock starts with Shaniqua leaving you a message. Why did they give this up?

Edit: found this lower:

Contact and Notification
o Incorporated Settlement Agreement 00-02, which defines the following:
? Contact is defined as a verbal exchange.
? A pilot can only be contacted beginning one hour after the onset of protected
rest and one and one-half hours before the end of this rest.
? Company will make reasonable efforts to avoid any contact between the
hours of 0001 and 0500.
? If a violation regarding contact occurs, a pilot will be entitled a voucher
entitling them to one day off.

But this still doesn't address the issue of a contact attempt. The word "attempt" needs to be removed. A contact "attempt" is a message. A "contact" is two way.

 

[49W]

I hope I will be allowed to go back to the 200, as it will be a pay cut and quality of life hit being reserve on the 700

 

[John Pennekamp]

General
o Crew Scheduling may schedule a pilot for more than 28.5 hours per week and 97.5
hours per month.

Another concession. Even the chief pilots have backed us up that the 27.5/97.5 works both ways. Not any more... now the company can have their cake and eat it too.

 

[Oakum_Boy]

WTFO? So now they can keep us there on "standby" for two hours after our trip was supposed to end on regular days, and 5 hours on "IROP days" (every day for ASA)?!!!!!

I can see the company demanding every pilot finishing a trip to stick around for 2-5 hours on every day to see if they can "find something".

This is quality.

 

[John Pennekamp]

Commuting Pilot Policy
o A pilot must designate up to three airports (within 150 miles from principle residence)
that he will commute from.
o Policy applies to regular pilots and reserve pilot positioning them selves for a reserve
on-call period.
o A pilot must list on an available flight between 36 and 24 hours from departure, and
such flight must have at least one seat available for sale at the time of listing.
o An on-line jumpseat is considered an available seat.
o The commuting flight must arrive at reasonable time before duty in.
o If a commuting pilot does not arrive in time for duty in, he must specifically invoke the
commuting policy.
o Crew scheduling will determine the reassignment of the pilot, which could be:
? Deadhead w/o pay to rejoin his trip,
? Join trip when it transits his domicile,
? Reschedule for another trip,
? Remove the pilot without pay from his trip.
o Pilot who misses a trip or portion of a trip as a result of this policy will have his
guarantee adjusted.
o A pilot can use the commute policy each time he commutes to work. If he is not
successful in reporting on time, the Policy may be invoked to avoid discipline 3 times in
a rolling 12-month period, not to exceed 5 times in a rolling 24-month period.

1. Define "reasonable" amount of time before report.

2. A pilot CAN use the policy. Does this mean you can be disciplined for NOT adhering to the policy? At many companies who have commuter policies, you're subject to discipline for not following the policy. In other words, not listing ahead, and not making it, etc. This often forces pilots to come in the day before their trip to "play it safe". Currently, with no commuter policy, the most you risk is an occurance for late duty in so long as you call 2 hours ahead. This could be a concession.

3. Define discipline. Is an "occurance" discipline?

 

[Oakum_Boy]

Management is already assembling the Loophole Task Force.

 

[John Pennekamp]

While there are some good things in this deal, there's also a lot of loose language that WILL allow the company to take many things back. We know from experience, and from what the SkyWest pilots tell us that they WILL try.

Unless the CNC and MEC tighten up the language in this agreement before signing, many of the improvements will be of little value. So basically we'll be voting on the $$$ sections... which aren't that great.

I think that they have portrayed the TA'd sections with rose colored glasses over the last few years. I've seen bullet point concepts, but this is the first time I've seen the actual proposed language. I have to say I'm not impressed. There's way too much "company discretion" hidden in this language.

I think they need to spend a lot more time with the lawyers before they begin the roadshows, or I'm going to have a hard time voting yes. I'm sure many pilots will agree.

After 5 years, there's no point in ratifying a contract that won't fix a lot of the QOL problems and won't pay much money to the most senior pilots.

 

[Oakum_Boy]

If you like IFS ANDS or BUTS, this T/A is for YOU!

 

[No Delay]

Well, I am going to wait until the road shows before I completely make up my mind. Maybe there is a lot more to it than what they sent out in the summary.

Is it possible to make changes at this point? Or does it have to run the full course with a vote before they can go back to the table?

I like the idea of rigs. But not what we have right now.

How about a 2:3 rig on the fourth day. Maybe even a 1:1 straight rig on any 5th day flying. It would encourage 3 day trips and make it possible for the company to 5 day trips and make it worth while for the pilots. Just an idea.

 

[PBRstreetgang]

Management is already assembling the Loophole Task Force.

You are kidding.....right? SKYW had the Loophole Task Force formed when they bought you, they had been reviewing the T/A during the purchase! If there is a loophole they will stretch it like your taterhole after that 64oz steak.
Good luck guys!
PBR

 

[Tomct]

I'm Not very impressed! Right now...it is a BIG NO VOTE for me. After 5 years, it should be MUCH MUCH better. There is just too much "loose" language in a lot of the sections...."company discretion...." Yeah, we know where THAT will go! I say SEND IT BACK and tell them to do it over again and by the way....add at least another 5-6 Million to the lump sum! Come On CNC....MAKE IT HAPPEN!:angryfire

 

[49W]

I'm Not very impressed! Right now...it is a BIG NO VOTE for me. After 5 years, it should be MUCH MUCH better. There is just too much "loose" language in a lot of the sections...."company discretion...." Yeah, we know where THAT will go! I say SEND IT BACK and tell them to do it over again and by the way....add at least another 5-6 Million to the lump sum! Come On CNC....MAKE IT HAPPEN!:angryfire

Same here. Unless I'm convinced otherwise, it will be a no vote from me, too.

 

[GearUpLightsIn]

Another concession. Even the chief pilots have backed us up that the 27.5/97.5 works both ways. Not any more... now the company can have their cake and eat it too.

Typo in the notepad perhaps?

 

[John Pennekamp]

Typo in the notepad perhaps?

Say what?