ASA Pilots Read FOM MX Reporting

[scarlet]

I heard and read the FOM 2-5.5 that we are not AUTHUORIZED to give VERBAL mx discrepancies !!

It states
1. You will write it up
2. Call MX and tell them you have a write up and your gate location.
3. You are done !!

MX is aware of this as of yesterday, so I heard !!

 

[OpsCheckGood]

Does this mean no more page and item number? Just, "I have a write-up, come and get it?"

 

[scarlet]

I don't think it says. Will look it up

 

[worldfly]

Does this mean no more page and item number? Just, "I have a write-up, come and get it?"

No you still have to do that, a while back I heard a DL pilot got into hot water with the feds over calling in mtc rather than entering it in the afdl I'm assuming they are trying to bring us into line with the rest of the aviation world.

 

[Oakum_Boy]

This has been the rule for a while. There was a memo a year or two ago regarding this.

 

[FishandFly]

Are you just saying that we are not allowed to call up and ask for mx to come fix something? That we must write up every discrepancy.

 

[shamrock]

Are you just saying that we are not allowed to call up and ask for mx to come fix something? That we must write up every discrepancy.

That's how I read it.

 

[asapilot]

Are you just saying that we are not allowed to call up and ask for mx to come fix something? That we must write up every discrepancy.

That's how it's always been. All discrepancies must be documented. If something happened later and you knew about it and it wasn't documented, you'd be on the receiving end of some bad stuff. MX should know this as well as they'd be on the hook for it too.

 

[viper548]

Are you just saying that we are not allowed to call up and ask for mx to come fix something? That we must write up every discrepancy.

It's been that way at skywest the whole time i've been there, maybe they're starting to standardize things

 

[IronCityBlue]

If its broke, write it up. If its not, don't.

Yes that's how it is everywhere. You are always required to write up every discrepancy. Maintenence is not allowed to make repairs without documenting it either. There is nothing "anti-company" about that either. It only takes maintenence 30 seconds to scribble in what they did and rip out the page. If it takes them longer than that its the company's problem, but that doesn't relieve us or maintenence of this most basic requirement.

You can still call MX and tell them whats in the book. For example to give them heads up on what part they may want to bring, or if dispatch should start working on finding a spare aircraft, but you can't just tell them what's broken, not write it up and hope they fix it. Even if you see them fix it, that's not good enough because the FAA demands there be a record of the repair, which requires a write up.

Many mechanics would rather skip out on the paperwork (not only do they have to resolve the write up in the book, but they have to enter data into their own records, and data entery is no fun for anyone...except maybe Data's boyfriend. Oh! I'll be here all week) But this unofficial honor system status quo of verbal write ups only is highly illegal and if caught the FAA will come down hard on you and the mechanics.

As always, the company will drop both of you like a hot skillet, saying how they told you they wanted all discrepancies written up and resolved in a formal, legal matter, and the fact that you didn't do that means you are a rogue, rule breaking pilot/mechanic and they wash their hands of you.

 

[scarlet]

No you can not tell them what is wrong!

It says " Verbal reporting of discrepancies is NOT AUTHORIZED" !

Yes for eveyone else we do write it up in the AFDL.

 

[Weasil]

At skywest MX sent out a memo to the pilots saying that if we verbally report a mx item instead of putting it in the can, that this causes paperwork problems for them with the FAA. They have to try to explain why something was replaced/repaired when no discrepancy was reported. Remember the feds are all about the paperwork.

 

[scarlet]

WE DO HAVE TO WRITE IT UP TOO=OK

BUT WE can not tell them OVER the radio the problem pre the FOM !!

 

[CoATP]

Radio call only is NG. It must be documented. Calling on the radio the problem and the NOT writing it up is bad as it will open you uop to certificate action for flying with a know discrepancy.

 

[shamrock]

OK, so why on earth would they prohibit us from telling mx what's wrong over the radio? Seems like scarlet has found a very creative way to read the FOM and the only point the FOM makes is simply that you cannot call mx on the radio, tell them what's wrong, and have it fixed without writing it up in the AFDL.

 

[atrdriver]

No you can not tell them what is wrong!

It says " Verbal reporting of discrepancies is NOT AUTHORIZED" !

Yes for eveyone else we do write it up in the AFDL.

Come on Scarlet, you know that it means that you can't ONLY tell them what's wrong on the radio, you must ALSO write it up. Of course you can give them a heads up about what you are writing up. For instance, if you are writing up a landing light, if you tell them the mechanic can bring a new bulb with him. If you don't, he has to make more than one trip, which punishes the mechanic, not the company. If I were you I would want to keep as many of the mechanics on your side as possible.

 

[Long Time Gone]

I heard and read the FOM 2-5.5 that we are not AUTHUORIZED to give VERBAL mx discrepancies !!

It states
1. You will write it up
2. Call MX and tell them you have a write up and your gate location.
3. You are done !!

MX is aware of this as of yesterday, so I heard !!

You have issues, son. If you wish to start a personal war with MX, go for it. Leave the rest of us out of it.

For those of you not familiar, this is directly out of our FOM:
2-5.5 Maintenance Irregularities and the AFDL states:
"The FAA requires that aircraft discrepancies be written in the Aircraft Flight Discrepancy Log (AFDL) as soon as practical. Verbal reporting of discrepancies is not authorized. The PIC shall ensure that all mechanical irregularities are entered into the AFDL."
2-5.5 Notification of Discrepancies states:
"As soon as practical, an AFDL entry must be made and OCC notified after becoming aware of a discrepancy. If ASA line maintenance is available at the location, the Captain will directly notify Line Maintenance of the discrepancy."

No you can not tell them what is wrong! It says " Verbal reporting of discrepancies is NOT AUTHORIZED" !

Informing MX on the radio what the discrepancy is isn't clasified as a "verbal discrepancy". Telling a mechanic of a discrepancy without writing it up is. If you've ever told MX of a discrepancy and not written it in the book, you're wrong. If MX has had a meeting over this, then the days of "Have you written it up?" or "Don't bother writing it up, it's too much paperwork over a bulb." are finally over.

As for myself, I'm just doing my job. If it's broke, it's written up. I'm not purposely overlooking anything. I'll call MX like I'm supposed to. If they want specifics, no problem. They'll get their log page and item number for tracking. They'll get my employee number for tracking, because I'm only doing my job, and there's nothing anyone can say otherwise.

 

[Weasil]

long time gone, well said. I agree with you, they are misreading their FOM. The intent of that wording is not to prohibit you from advising MX over the radio or telephone that you have a write up and what it is. The purpose is to prevent "verbal reporting of discrepancies" meaning not making an entry in the logbook. It's pretty obvious.

 

[ohplease!]

long time gone, well said. I agree with you, they are misreading their FOM. The intent of that wording is not to prohibit you from advising MX over the radio or telephone that you have a write up and what it is. The purpose is to prevent "verbal reporting of discrepancies" meaning not making an entry in the logbook. It's pretty obvious.

I agree.

However, certain instructors from training AND standards are teaching this way. I think thats where the confusion comes in.

 

[Stifler's Mom]

If MX ever catches up and stops deferring all things deferrable, we're going to have some sharp looking RJs out there. Brand new gasper vents, yoke clips, arm rests, placards etc.

I have never seen so many things deferred on our planes.

 

[Long Time Gone]

An FA told me last night that we had an ATR with 25 stickers in the cockpit. A friend of hers had a picture of it. Whether it's doctored or not is the question.

She also told me that there were only 3 out of 12 ATRs on line yesterday. Funny, the Flowboard showed 9. It's still a 25% down rate. Not bad.

 

[Lilah]

No problem too big, no problem too small,
no problem in the book, no problem at all.....

BTW, how many fuel drips/min are legal? Oil?

Cheers!

Lilah

 

[Long Time Gone]

Check your C-172 POH.

 

[FixNFly]

Come on Scarlet, you know that it means that you can't ONLY tell them what's wrong on the radio, you must ALSO write it up. Of course you can give them a heads up about what you are writing up. For instance, if you are writing up a landing light, if you tell them the mechanic can bring a new bulb with him. If you don't, he has to make more than one trip, which punishes the mechanic, not the company. If I were you I would want to keep as many of the mechanics on your side as possible.

Who cares if the mechanic is "on your side" or not? What's he going to do -- not fix your airplane? Sabotage something? Take longer to get it fixed. Oh, boy that'll show me.

I'll do my job, he'll do his -- if he doesn't like it that's his problem. I'm not paid to be his friend, I'm paid to fly a safe airplane.

 

[John Pennekamp]

This is by far one of the dumbest discussions I've ever seen here. The Chuck Norris vs. The Duke thread requires more brain cells.

 

[FmrFreightDog]

Who cares if the mechanic is "on your side" or not? What's he going to do -- not fix your airplane? Sabotage something? Take longer to get it fixed. Oh, boy that'll show me.

I'll do my job, he'll do his -- if he doesn't like it that's his problem. I'm not paid to be his friend, I'm paid to fly a safe airplane.

I care. Don't get me wrong, my aircraft flies with no overlooked MX, but I see no sense in making things more difficult for the mechanics when they show up to the airplane. That's why I call my discrepancies in, that's why I make sure to always offer them free reign of the galley, and that's why I make an effort to know all of our line mechanics on a first name basis.

When the time comes for the mechanics to fight to better their lives, you won't hear me complaining about my flights leaving late because MX is taking too long to show up.

I have had more than one mechanic tell me something along the lines of, "I just hate that management is putting any of us in this position." Right now, the line maintenance people and the pilots still have a pretty good relationship. I see no reason to destroy that simply by failing to realize that the line mechanics have been working very hard lately with a minimum of complaining. In other words, of course write up all your maintenance discrepancies, but there's no reason to be a dick about it.

Now... Maintenance Control, on the other hand...

 

[wms]

I care. Don't get me wrong, my aircraft flies with no overlooked MX, but I see no sense in making things more difficult for the mechanics when they show up to the airplane. That's why I call my discrepancies in, that's why I make sure to always offer them free reign of the galley, and that's why I make an effort to know all of our line mechanics on a first name basis.

When the time comes for the mechanics to fight to better their lives, you won't hear me complaining about my flights leaving late because MX is taking too long to show up.

I have had more than one mechanic tell me something along the lines of, "I just hate that management is putting any of us in this position." Right now, the line maintenance people and the pilots still have a pretty good relationship. I see no reason to destroy that simply by failing to realize that the line mechanics have been working very hard lately with a minimum of complaining. In other words, of course write up all your maintenance discrepancies, but there's no reason to be a dick about it.

Now... Maintenance Control, on the other hand...

Ditto. They're mad enough to organize and we should support them.

 

[worldfly]

Recently in BQK I saw a list on the wall in opps giving a list of ASA pilots that are prone to frequent write ups, this was a typed list on company letter head. Folks this war is abount to get a lot worse. I think those pilots listed may have a law suit if they see it.

 

[FmrFreightDog]

Recently in BQK I saw a list on the wall in opps giving a list of ASA pilots that are prone to frequent write ups, this was a typed list on company letter head. Folks this war is abount to get a lot worse. I think those pilots listed may have a law suit if they see it.

Should have taken it down and put a copy in each named pilot's mailbox.

 

[shamrock]

Should have taken it down and put a copy in each named pilot's mailbox.

Yeah, I definitely would've grabbed a copy of it too. For the company to site specific pilots and publish that list seems kind of dumb, but then again we are talking about ASA here.