Overhead at Civilian Fields

[Scrapdog]

Wow--you must be in a different AF than the one I was in...

Look good walking to and from the jet...
Look good up initial...
Sound good on the radio...

Right Huggy?

I didn't say don't look good up initial. That is a professionalism/pride thing we all do because we're military pilots. And you never loose your cool on the radio.

However - thinking a civilian controller gets his rocks off because you come up initial at 300 knots...I don't think so.

I guess Huggy is now the officianado on pattern ops? I'll ask him then myself...Right Huggy?

 

[Huggyu2]

I guess Huggy is now the officianado on pattern ops? I'll ask him then myself...Right Huggy?

Amen.

We would have voted for you, Scrappy, but we didn't know the phone number for the inside of the vault. Do you sleep in there too??

 

[Future SNA]

I know 300-350 below 10K seems to be pretty standard, since in addition to saying "2"....my only other job on leads wing is to critique non-verbally the stuff he does that I think is wrong.

On the other side. Single-ship, I always obide by the 250 below 10K. I know ample guys that have been called out on it over the radio, all civilians, and none of what they experienced do I want to ever be a part of.

350 in the break. Damn straight, but I'm not accelerating 15 miles out needlessly, I typically wait till I call initial, then accelerate, seems more prudent.

I think you'll find the guys that follow the rules have less heartache and more respect in the end.

 

[Scrapdog]

Amen.

We would have voted for you, Scrappy, but we didn't know the phone number for the inside of the vault. Do you sleep in there too??

DSN or commercial? No, they removed my cot last week!

 

[MiserDD]

Not if I'm in a T-38. It's totally legal to be at 300KIAS.

Not in New Rivers’ class D without permission. I don’t care what your stall speed is, you ask first or your take the walk of shame.

 

[jetpig32]

I don't want to die from a 172 just as much as joe bag of donuts flying his cessna doesn't want to get hit by me.

Ummmm. Joey bag of donuts.. I go for a tripple lindy

 

[Huggyu2]

Not in New Rivers’ class D without permission. I don’t care what your stall speed is, you ask first or your take the walk of shame.

I might be wrong, but here's my rebuttal:
Yes, they may call me up and ask to speak with me, but by Part 91.117, paragraph d, that speed limit doesn't apply to the T-38. The FAA has stated that since the 300KIAS is listed in the T-38 flight manual, that's the speed at which we may operate.
Therefore, I don't think New Rivers' Base Ops / ATC would not have a leg to stand on.
"(d) If the minimum safe airspeed for any particular operation is greater than the maximum speed prescribed in this section, the aircraft may be operated at that minimum speed."

Many of you folks are way smarter on this than I am. Is there something I'm missing?

 

[Mud Eagle]

Not in New Rivers’ class D without permission. I don’t care what your stall speed is, you ask first or your take the walk of shame.

<yawn>

If only there were a DOD-wide LOA with the FAA that dealt with minimum airspeeds by DOD aircraft (fighters especially).

Oh wait...there is!

And it specifically references the chapter in my jet's flight manual where it says I come up initial at 300 knots.

I'd be happy to show that to whatever toolbag decided to make an issue of it.

Last time I checked, the "MCAS" at the front of the name of the airfield meant that DOD agreements were in effect.

 

[bagasticks]

when i was a hornet plane capatain at the MCAS's i dont think that any we visited including the one i was stationed at were concerned with airspeed. . .or atleast our pilots didnt give a poop. . . I wll say that unrestricted climbs and 4-bill breaks were the stuff that us enlisted maintainers lived for. . . .we used to sit out on the ramp after the jets called 10 min. out and judge breaks. we had a young captain that would plug in the burners in the break and he won regularly. . the best was what i recall to have been a "Pro-C" sortie which was a return to service flight after extensive mx. the jet would be clean and single ship. unrestriceted climb always, and always a good show coming up initial. . . . .nowadays i judge my own breaks based on the "Bank angle! Bank angle". . . . . . . .Tanker breaks not really breaks. . .more of just a slight bend. . .

 

[anotherF16pilot]

Puck,

Most can't see the difference between 300 and 350 kts. So fly what you want but next time ask for tac initial. 500' & 500 kts. Mil airfields only of course! Oh, and if you see a bird you might want to take it around (AB to be conservative)

 

[Future SNA]

disregard

 

[BiffF15]

Having been cross country as much as the next guy and having done the Demo gig (lots of smaller civilian fields) just refer to the first page in the Dash-1 of life (REGARDLESS OF THE RULES, USE COMMON SENSE IN ALL THAT FOLLOWS). If you are entering initial at ORD then go with what the controllers are requesting or allowing (probably a lack of GA in the pattern). If you are up initial at a 7000' strip near a large city with a small airshow then speed your discretion with eyes out and some sort of auto aqc helping you feel your way along.
And yes, don't look or sound like a dufus in the pattern. If you are requested to report the duty then do so (Boca Chica being numero uno). If you are told no fan breaks, then no fan breaks. If you are reporting high key then do better next time at UPT and get a two engined fighter.
Lets see how many folks actually read this stuff...

 

[NewmanF16]

Funny, the 2 engine fighters usually go to the weak swimmers...actually, I shouldn't throw the hog guys under the bus like that. It's the guys with the big craniums that need to fly Eagles so their egos can get in the cockpit with them.:beer:

 

[payola]

Not saying it makes them right, but New River is a helo/Osprey base with a C-12 or two in the mix. Maybe that's why they're so touchy about speed. Also, the AP 1 mentions "strict adherence" to course rules for noise abatement.

I was at New River for five years when I was enlisted. I don't remember seeing too many tactical jets (or jet trainers) stopping by, except during the air show. I don't think I ever saw a jet do a break until I moved to Miramar.

 

[bssthound]

Big Wave said

Look good walking to and from the jet...
Look good up initial...
Sound good on the radio...

Also, better dead than embarrassed . . . . .