Delta MD90s

[ERJFO]

I'll go back to my previous post and say that the conformity checks on these aircraft will be very time and labor intensive. We have a mechnic in our operation who worked for Delta as the acceptance Tech Ops rep in Seattle (Boeing), it's his opinion that these aircraft are almost impossible to bring under the FAA rules, unless of course the FAA is willing to give a wink and a nod to the process. I don't think so.

Spooky, I'm sorry to tell you this but I think you're wrong about this, maybe based on a bad experiance you had in the past? I know a guy who worked for one of the larger leasing companies in the US behind GECAS and ILFC and they did sale-lease backs of forgien equipment (including stuff in China) fairly often.

 

[michael707767]

I am not aware of any middle eastern carrier getting ready to park any B777s out there.

Emirates. They have 777-300s that are being turned back to the lessor as they take delivery of new 777-300ERs.

 

[Spooky 2]

Spooky, I'm sorry to tell you this but I think you're wrong about this, maybe based on a bad experiance you had in the past? I know a guy who worked for one of the larger leasing companies in the US behind GECAS and ILFC and they did sale-lease backs of forgien equipment (including stuff in China) fairly often.

Well I hope your right. My experience was about six months ago so maybe something has chaged. (eye roll please). Many leasing companies write their contracts jn such a way so as to mitigate this issue. Also, some carriers such as Korean operate some, not all of course, of their aircraft with N registrations. In the case of KAL, they are an approved FAA repair station. Even saying that outfits like Cargo 360 who have accepted aircraft from the Korean Airline fleet, have in turn gone through hell in meeting FAA compliance standards.

 

[FlyDouglasJets]

SAS (Blue1-LCC), JAL, Hello, Saudi Arabian, China Southern & Eastern all have Md90s, and most of those have 737NGs or A320s on order.

 

[~~~^~~~]

We have a mechnic in our operation who worked for Delta as the acceptance Tech Ops rep in Seattle (Boeing), it's his opinion that these aircraft are almost impossible to bring under the FAA rules, unless of course the FAA is willing to give a wink and a nod to the process. I don't think so.

Of course Boeing is going to say that. Would they rather force the sale of a $50,000,000.00 737NG, or see a used airplane on the market that does the same thing for less than a quarter of the price? Boeing wants to sell NEW airplanes.

If Boeing wants to keep these airplanes out of the US, maybe they should offer the 737 at better prices

In my past job we used to get involved in the purchase of older aircraft and records. Even as far back as DC-8's operated in the middle east in Aeroflot colors duplicates of all records were maintained by MDD. All manufacturer's do pretty much the same record keeping on this type of equipment. If there is a fire, the records for a Chinese MD90 would be much easier to re-create than your C182. The expense is changing out the interiors and avionics, which Delta has said they are planning to do anyway.

Don't get me wrong, I would love to see more American aircraft built, powered by American engines.

 

[Spooky 2]

Of course Boeing is going to say that. Would they rather force the sale of a $50,000,000.00 737NG, or see a used airplane on the market that does the same thing for less than a quarter of the price? Boeing wants to sell NEW airplanes.

If Boeing wants to keep these airplanes out of the US, maybe they should offer the 737 at better prices

In my past job we used to get involved in the purchase of older aircraft and records. Even as far back as DC-8's operated in the middle east in Aeroflot colors duplicates of all records were maintained by MDD. All manufacturer's do pretty much the same record keeping on this type of equipment. If there is a fire, the records for a Chinese MD90 would be much easier to re-create than your C182. The expense is changing out the interiors and avionics, which Delta has said they are planning to do anyway.

Don't get me wrong, I would love to see more American aircraft built, powered by American engines.

Well first of all Boeing never said that. The remarks came from a former Delta Tech Ops guy. I'll simply drop this argument and wait to see what Delta does. One thing for sure, Delta Tech Ops is not dumb so if they move on these aircraft, "so be it" to quote a former Delta official.

I do not thnk you have a very good understnading of the word Conformity as the FAA applies it to aircraft maint. and record keeping. The Chinese are famous for being, shall we say sloppy at this task. Might be interesting to see what caused the fire on the China Air B737 this am.

 

[JohnQ]

Well first of all Boeing never said that. The remarks came from a former Delta Tech Ops guy. I'll simply drop this argument and wait to see what Delta does. One thing for sure, Delta Tech Ops is not dumb so if they move on these aircraft, "so be it" to quote a former Delta official.

I do not thnk you have a very good understnading of the word Conformity as the FAA applies it to aircraft maint. and record keeping. The Chinese are famous for being, shall we say sloppy at this task. Might be interesting to see what caused the fire on the China Air B737 this am.

Knowing DALs history with used aircraft, this could be a fiasco. I hope not, since more mainline aircraft can only be a good thing, but I am reminded of our 73G fiasco. A quick history lesson...

DAL had 737-300s with analog cockpits flown out of DFW (when it was a base) and SLC.

We also had 737-200s with analog cockpits flown out of ATL and CVG.

We had -800s on order.

In order to get "much needed" lift we bought eight or nine used 737s from a small German carrier (not Lufthansa). They were a nightmare, to say the least. It took MONTHS longer to fix all the problems we never expected them to have before they were even in service. Additionally, they had a primitive glass cockpit which resulted in their being placed in their own tiny category, completely separate from the -200s, -300s, and -800s (so much for "commonality"). Then they continued to be mx nightmares for the entire time we had them. I had a pilot tell me that he had NEVER flown a trip as scheduled due to the fact that they planes kept breaking all the time.

Yep, our mgmt has a stellar record with used aircraft purchases.

 

[Spooky 2]

Knowing DALs history with used aircraft, this could be a fiasco. I hope not, since more mainline aircraft can only be a good thing, but I am reminded of our 73G fiasco. A quick history lesson...

DAL had 737-300s with analog cockpits flown out of DFW (when it was a base) and SLC.

We also had 737-200s with analog cockpits flown out of ATL and CVG.

We had -800s on order.

In order to get "much needed" lift we bought eight or nine used 737s from a small German carrier (not Lufthansa). They were a nightmare, to say the least. It took MONTHS longer to fix all the problems we never expected them to have before they were even in service. Additionally, they had a primitive glass cockpit which resulted in their being placed in their own tiny category, completely separate from the -200s, -300s, and -800s (so much for "commonality"). Then they continued to be mx nightmares for the entire time we had them. I had a pilot tell me that he had NEVER flown a trip as scheduled due to the fact that they planes kept breaking all the time.

Yep, our mgmt has a stellar record with used aircraft purchases.

Those B737's were from Air Berlin and there were about six others that caused equal problems that came from a carrier over in the Denver area. I think they were called Western Pacific.

 

[michael707767]

Those B737's were from Air Berlin and there were about six others that caused equal problems that came from a carrier over in the Denver area. I think they were called Western Pacific.

actually, the 9 73Gs came from Germania. Air Berlin now but Germania then. We had 4 737s that came from Western Pacific.

 

[General Lee]

Knowing DALs history with used aircraft, this could be a fiasco. I hope not, since more mainline aircraft can only be a good thing, but I am reminded of our 73G fiasco. A quick history lesson...

DAL had 737-300s with analog cockpits flown out of DFW (when it was a base) and SLC.

We also had 737-200s with analog cockpits flown out of ATL and CVG.

We had -800s on order.

In order to get "much needed" lift we bought eight or nine used 737s from a small German carrier (not Lufthansa). They were a nightmare, to say the least. It took MONTHS longer to fix all the problems we never expected them to have before they were even in service. Additionally, they had a primitive glass cockpit which resulted in their being placed in their own tiny category, completely separate from the -200s, -300s, and -800s (so much for "commonality"). Then they continued to be mx nightmares for the entire time we had them. I had a pilot tell me that he had NEVER flown a trip as scheduled due to the fact that they planes kept breaking all the time.

Yep, our mgmt has a stellar record with used aircraft purchases.

John, most of those people that made those exact decisions are gone now, let it go. We are back in expansion mode with 75 a month hiring. That is a good thing.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Spooky 2]

actually, the 9 73Gs came from Germania. Air Berlin now but Germania then. We had 4 737s that came from Western Pacific.

I stand corrected. Thanks!

 

[JohnQ]

John, most of those people that made those exact decisions are gone now, let it go. We are back in expansion mode with 75 a month hiring. That is a good thing.

Bye Bye--General Lee

Your advice is good and I tend to be an optimist. I hope I am wrong. Our track record with used aircraft hasn't exactly been the greatest, but then again we used to be clueless about generating revenue. Hopefully these MD90s will be as good for all of us as we hope...I still am skeptical however.

 

[Gillegan]

Emirates. They have 777-300s that are being turned back to the lessor as they take delivery of new 777-300ERs.

Don't hold your breath. The 777-300's are here to stay for the foreseeable future. We do have some 200's that might be going but even that would be a few years down the line.