Pinnacle work rules

[moscowcfi]

I am contemplaiting taking a job offer at Pinnacle, but unfortunately I have no information on their current job rules and commuter clause. Can someone provide a link to that info, or the info itself? If somewhere among the sea of pithy comments someone could actually give me the information, I would greatly appreciate it.

 

[TurboAWD]

Well, I woudl do a search on Pinnacle.

But, my personal recommendation is stay as FAR AWAY AS POSSIBLE!! Apply at Mesaba.

This is the most hostile work enviroment you will find.

Turbo

 

[Fred Rogers]

Now I would definately say NO. Their contract negotiations just got harder I'm afraid.

 

[dondk]

I am contemplaiting taking a job offer at Pinnacle, but unfortunately I have no information on their current job rules and commuter clause. Can someone provide a link to that info, or the info itself? If somewhere among the sea of pithy comments someone could actually give me the information, I would greatly appreciate it.

As a contract guy for 9E...

Commuter clause.. we really don't have one per se. we have call in honest. Basically 2 times a year you can call in without jeopardy. You have a few things you have to do... 2 flights, boarding pass/jumpseat form, 2 hours before show time, notify scheduling. It will show as a MT until it gets straightened out.
in a nut shell, it is something, not much and I normally do not recommend it to anyone and it is subject to managements opinion therefore it is subjective.

Work rules... 10 days off min, 75 hour guarantee. 1 week VAC after 12 months of service. Sick policy sucks, 45 min lunch break which is usually put on a 50 minute turn with a tail swap. duty day to 14 hours, can take you to 15 1/2 if you agree.

trips from 1 day to 5 day and CDO or high speeds. Can do 4 CDO's in a row.

Reserve.. probably one of the worst in the industry. They own you and you have very little contractual rights.

to get paid O/T (we really don't have it), you have to go 15 minute beyond trip value to get paid again. Basically you give the company 15 minutes free when you are above block (which is close to trip value). Some trip values are backwards, some are not.

50% cancellation pay, 50% D/H pay, 125% JM pay. Can be extended into day off as reserve not as line holder. Can be extended 2 times a month up to 9 times a year (but no one is counting how many you have).

overall, a few company's are worse, most are better on the work rules. If you work 85 hours, you may get 88 hours pay. First year pay for FO's average between 15-18K depending on how long reserve was. If you get Captain in the first few months, you are looking at 2-3 years on reserve. Most reserve guys live in domicile (otherwise it is like 6 days off with the commuting and reserve periods).

Back in 2001 and 2004 when we hired most of our street captains. About 15% lasted to become line holders. The rest bolted for greener pastures and most within 1 year of getting the street Captain position. Translation... the CA pay is not worth the abuse... 1st year CA on reserve makes maybe 50-53K and will never have more than 120 days off a year.

If you live in domicile OR have an EASY commute (one leg and no more than 1 hour flight), Pinnacle is not the worst. If you are a FL, WA, CA, TX, GA, SC, NC, North east commuter... I would think hard before taking the plunge. If your home is only served by RJ's.. I would really think hard...

 

[Flybet3]

thank u!!!

As a contract guy for 9E...

Commuter clause.. we really don't have one per se. we have call in honest. Basically 2 times a year you can call in without jeopardy. You have a few things you have to do... 2 flights, boarding pass/jumpseat form, 2 hours before show time, notify scheduling. It will show as a MT until it gets straightened out.
in a nut shell, it is something, not much and I normally do not recommend it to anyone and it is subject to managements opinion therefore it is subjective.

Work rules... 10 days off min, 75 hour guarantee. 1 week VAC after 12 months of service. Sick policy sucks, 45 min lunch break which is usually put on a 50 minute turn with a tail swap. duty day to 14 hours, can take you to 15 1/2 if you agree.

trips from 1 day to 5 day and CDO or high speeds. Can do 4 CDO's in a row.

Reserve.. probably one of the worst in the industry. They own you and you have very little contractual rights.

to get paid O/T (we really don't have it), you have to go 15 minute beyond trip value to get paid again. Basically you give the company 15 minutes free when you are above block (which is close to trip value). Some trip values are backwards, some are not.

50% cancellation pay, 50% D/H pay, 125% JM pay. Can be extended into day off as reserve not as line holder. Can be extended 2 times a month up to 9 times a year (but no one is counting how many you have).

overall, a few company's are worse, most are better on the work rules. If you work 85 hours, you may get 88 hours pay. First year pay for FO's average between 15-18K depending on how long reserve was. If you get Captain in the first few months, you are looking at 2-3 years on reserve. Most reserve guys live in domicile (otherwise it is like 6 days off with the commuting and reserve periods).

Back in 2001 and 2004 when we hired most of our street captains. About 15% lasted to become line holders. The rest bolted for greener pastures and most within 1 year of getting the street Captain position. Translation... the CA pay is not worth the abuse... 1st year CA on reserve makes maybe 50-53K and will never have more than 120 days off a year.

If you live in domicile OR have an EASY commute (one leg and no more than 1 hour flight), Pinnacle is not the worst. If you are a FL, WA, CA, TX, GA, SC, NC, North east commuter... I would think hard before taking the plunge. If your home is only served by RJ's.. I would really think hard...

hooooolly s**** dude! thank you so much for reminding me as to why i left pinnacle airlines after only a few months.

 

[Fly4PayNoMore]

hooooolly s**** dude! thank you so much for reminding me as to why i left pinnacle airlines after only a few months.

AMEN!!!

 

[Fred Rogers]

hooooolly s**** dude! thank you so much for reminding me as to why i left pinnacle airlines after only a few months.

I think people need to remember what it means to work WITHOUT a contract. Ask a colgan guy about that list there. This is what they will say...

WOW, a 14 hour duty day??? that is AWESOME!!! Our duty day is INFINATE!!! so long as there are no people in the back at the end of it!!!

How about being able to refuse an extension once a month? HA!! I can just hear the call from crew scheduling to a colgan guy the first time they use that!!!

CS: you are being extended
pilot: um um um... no? is that ok??
CS: ok.
pilot: you mean I don't get a missed trip? I don't have to report to the chief pilot's office? I dont' get passed up for upgrade? I can just say no?

THIS IS AMAZING!!!!!!!!


Few people understand what it means to not work under a contract. To all you CFI's out there. I would HIGHLY recommend AVOIDING a non-union carrier when you pick where you want to go. The regionals suck as a whole, but at least you have a contract if you have a contract!!!

Some of you guys take that for granted.

 

[XJohXJ]

Hey Fred,

I am truly sorry that the vote didn't pass for you guys.

 

[Flybet3]

I think people need to remember what it means to work WITHOUT a contract. Ask a colgan guy about that list there. This is what they will say...

WOW, a 14 hour duty day??? that is AWESOME!!! Our duty day is INFINATE!!! so long as there are no people in the back at the end of it!!!

How about being able to refuse an extension once a month? HA!! I can just hear the call from crew scheduling to a colgan guy the first time they use that!!!

CS: you are being extended
pilot: um um um... no? is that ok??
CS: ok.
pilot: you mean I don't get a missed trip? I don't have to report to the chief pilot's office? I dont' get passed up for upgrade? I can just say no?

THIS IS AMAZING!!!!!!!!


Few people understand what it means to not work under a contract. To all you CFI's out there. I would HIGHLY recommend AVOIDING a non-union carrier when you pick where you want to go. The regionals suck as a whole, but at least you have a contract if you have a contract!!!

Some of you guys take that for granted.

Sounds like Colgan pilots are the FAR 135 pilots of the FAR 121 world. Anyone that's flown charter, whether it was pax or cargo can back me up on this...the QOL sucks! companies twist the regs to their advantage.! SCUMBAGS!!!

 

[Fred Rogers]

OH! and I ALMOST FORGOT!!!

To all you pilots out there who can call in sick from work.

KNOW THIS:

There are Colgan pilots who have done the carpet dance at the Chief Pilot's office and LOST PAY because they called in sick 2 times in 6 years.

maybe you didn't hear me.

2 times calling in sick

6 years employment with the company

LOST PAY.

FORGET that your paycheck says you've accumulated a hundred hours of sick time because it doesn't mean ANYTHING!!! The only thing that does is satisfy the labor laws so we look better than sweatshops in China.

OH Wait, looks like JO is working that angle too.

 

[Fred Rogers]

Hey Fred,

I am truly sorry that the vote didn't pass for you guys.

thanks XJohXJ. There are a lot of dissapointed colgan employees tonight. We appreciate yours and everyone's support with our drive. Now it is time for everyone to focus on SKYWEST!

 

[Windsor]

Sounds like Colgan pilots are the FAR 135 pilots of the FAR 121 world. Anyone that's flown charter, whether it was pax or cargo can back me up on this...the QOL sucks! companies twist the regs to their advantage.! SCUMBAGS!!!

I hear that. Coming from the 135 cargo side, we regularly had 16-17-18 hour duty days. Worst ever was 21 hours of duty, 31 hours of being awake. Why?? Because the company told us to. They said to blame it on a freight delay which could extend our duty day indefinatly. The captain didnt want to say no to the almighty company.

14 hr duty days will be nice in comparison.

 

[moscowcfi]

Thanks, guys. Especially DONDK. I really need the info before I make a life-changing decision, and it seems like I'm better off staying at Comair for a while.

 

[bluefishbeagle]

In my opinion work rules at regional’s will not get better, they don't want you to hang around for the top pay scales. Also a ready supply of young eager jet captain wanna be's will always be willing to step in thinking they can make a difference and the pay will follow.

In most industries hard work, dedication, and long hours will get you ahead but not regional aviation. You are a dog on a short chain. You will perform or be fired and being fired will most likely end your 121 hopes. By regulation you will perform because the FAR's require it or the Feds will end our career.

If you survive long enough to make $75 a year and a mediocre schedule (you will at first think it's great after being on reserve for three years total as a F/O and then as a new Capt) you will finally realize that you can barely afford one wife, one kid, one car and one dog.

At age 60 will get the boot and it's extended to 65 will find that while that looked good when you were 35 at 55 you wonder if you can make it to 60, forget 65, however if the body lasts long enough the old 401K nest egg and SS is just enough to afford the dog.

 

[B-J-J Fighter]

hooooolly s**** dude! thank you so much for reminding me as to why i left pinnacle airlines after only a few months.

Total crap work rules. It's not worth it to work in this industry with these work rules. Your better off doing something else outside of aviation with these kind of work rules, and I have worked outside aviation until I got a job back in aviation that was worth my time. I feel like I'm of value to any company no matter if it's in aviation or not. I want to be treated and paid like a professional.

 

[bertengineer]

Thanks, guys. Especially DONDK. I really need the info before I make a life-changing decision, and it seems like I'm better off staying at Comair for a while.

If you were thinking of coming for the "Quick Upgrade" then get in line for terminal reserve. The guys that are senior to you that are FO's will be ahead of you when they upgrade. Some are waiting to be able to hold a line as soon as they finish upgrade. A lot of the Gulfstream guys are getting thier flight time now and are upgrading, plus we lowered the mins.

 

[Tram]

The grass is always greener..

I came to 9E from a jewel of an airline.. Lots of guys who are throwin' fits over here, need to go work somewhere worse than 9E and see what that is like..

I've done the no contract, no union thing..

I've only been flying for 9E for 2 months and it hasn't been completely horrible.. However, they work the balls right off the captains..

Depends on what you are looking to get out of an airline..

I came to 9E for two reasons..

1.) the base
2.) the upgrade

I mean, I go have gone to a Republic, Chautauqua, Eagle, etc..

However, I would have to commute to each of those.. 12 days min off a month? Yeh, and then deal with commuting?

Commuting blows..

 

[Speedbird34]

Congrats Tram, Are you based in MSP. By the way my W2 has always showed 59K and I am a reserve captain 2.5 years plus.
If I feel life is not that bad and I can still be selective about what major airline I shall work for, Then it can not be such a bad place to work. You get extended but then you are entitled to compensation days. I have had as much as 18 days off a month using my comp days.
Pinnacle is not that diffrent from any other regional.
I live in base and totally enjoy my co workers. Great people and some incredible base management espercially at MSP.
If you can not be happy on $10 you will not be happy on $100.
I say come here , get a quick upgrade, make some money and pay off your flight debts.
Enjoy life

 

[bluefishbeagle]

Congrats Tram, Are you based in MSP. By the way my W2 has always showed 59K and I am a reserve captain 2.5 years plus.
If I feel life is not that bad and I can still be selective about what major airline I shall work for, Then it can not be such a bad place to work. You get extended but then you are entitled to compensation days. I have had as much as 18 days off a month using my comp days.

18 days off with comp days? Doesn't that mean that you worked off days in other months? Where is the gain?

Pinnacle is not that diffrent from any other regional.
I live in base and totally enjoy my co workers. Great people and some incredible base management espercially at MSP..

Nobody's knocking Pinnacle employee's, base management at MSP is another story though.

If you can not be happy on $10 you will not be happy on $100..

If you are happy on $10 don't say it outloud or soon you will find yourself trying to be happy on $5. Management will of course tell you how lucky you are to be flying their shinny new jets.

I say come here , get a quick upgrade, make some money and pay off your flight debts.
Enjoy life

Yeah don't worry about trying to get ahead, eat drink and be happy and move on, while management is laughing all the way to the bank.

To all: Selling yourself short in any career choice is a sure way or being short on money later. All you need now may be only, suds, duds, and putang but some day it will be, denist bills, tennis shoes, and grocery money for a family of four.

 

[dondk]

As I mentioned... IF you live in domicile it CAN be quite nice.

those 18 days off with comp days.. how long did you have to wait to get all the comp days? I would guess more than a month or two

59K and 2.5 years is about right for a reserve... At 6 years I average 85K and 16 days off. It is all relative, but then I spent 3 years in the right seat so my average over the last 6 years still isn't 50K...

MSP base management...

I have to go here.. sorry....

This is the manager that fired a guy because his doctors note was not in english. This is also a guy who wrote up a Captain and stated he was mentally unstable because he has a few lates, sick 4 times, 1 miss trip and a few other BS items.. the pilot had his medical taken away because of the letter from this manager and just recently got it back.
this is also the same manager that will issue discipline just to teach a lesson. While the other's will bring the pilot in and chat with them.
This is the same manager that called a pilot on his cell during a turn and said "by the way, I will be suspending you when you get back"
finally one of my favorites... he will hang out at a gate and see what time you show to the gate. If you are not there by the FOM time you will get disciplined.

Don't get me wrong... there are worse managers to be had, but this one tends to take it too far. I have seen more LOW for such BS that don't occur in the other domiciles.

there are WORSE regionals... that is without a doubt. Although for a 1400+ pilot, 4 domicile, 140ish jet company, you SHOULD expect better. That is where Pinnacle lacks...