Eclipse 500

[rfresh]

Now that the Eclipse 500 is ramping up it's production finally and deliveries are being made, how successful do you think this VLJ will be in fractional/air taxi operations?

 

[BigC208]

It all depends on the body size of the potential cutomers and, or if they are claustrofobic. I saw this thing from up close and there is no way I get in the back. Only 2 good seats are up front. Nice personal transportation but not a charter bird.

 

[RNObased]

It all depends on the body size of the potential cutomers and, or if they are claustrofobic. I saw this thing from up close and there is no way I get in the back. Only 2 good seats are up front. Nice personal transportation but not a charter bird.

It has less room then my friends Baron. It is a cute toy, not a charter bird. Time will tell though.

 

[bailey3083]

Now that the Eclipse 500 is ramping up it's production finally and deliveries are being made, how successful do you think this VLJ will be in fractional/air taxi operations?

I saw one of those in Eagle, CO and damn it is small as hell, performance sucks and their is no such thing as room.
You do not have to worry as there is no way ATC will let those guys go higher then the mid-20's as they are to slow.

Bailey

 

[johnsonrod]

I saw one of those in Eagle, CO and damn it is small as hell, performance sucks and their is no such thing as room.
You do not have to worry as there is no way ATC will let those guys go higher then the mid-20's as they are to slow.

Bailey

I imagine you will want to avoid Florida in the next 6-12 months as Dayjet will be ramping up its operations and those things will be like Mosquitos all over the place... If the "dream" comes to fruition (a big IF) and Dayjet actually gets its 245 Eclipse Jets just imagine what the Southeast will look like on a typical week day.

 

[NJAPLT]

If a fractional or charter market does develop, the pilots in this industry has to make sure this does not become our version of the regional jet. Those of us who have unions need to make sure we don't let history repeat itself because no one will want to fly the "little jets."

 

[rettofly]

You do not have to worry as there is no way ATC will let those guys go higher then the mid-20's as they are to slow.

Bailey

How fast do you have to go? I file (and get) all the way up to FL410 with 350-370 TAS. Sometimes, I have to take a vector or delayed climb to filed FL, but it's really not an issue.

 

[bailey3083]

How fast do you have to go? I file (and get) all the way up to FL410 with 350-370 TAS. Sometimes, I have to take a vector or delayed climb to filed FL, but it's really not an issue.

In an article they quoted the TAS as 275 to 305 KTAS for most the VLJ's.

Great Article from Flying

http://www.flyingmag.com/article.asp?section_id=12&article_id=656&page_number=1

Bailey

 

[skyismyoffice]

If a fractional or charter market does develop, the pilots in this industry has to make sure this does not become our version of the regional jet. Those of us who have unions need to make sure we don't let history repeat itself because no one will want to fly the "little jets."

Excellent point!!

 

[jtf]

I think they have a hope of working as Dayjet plans around Florida if their numbers hold up to reality. If they can keep the price low to go direct from one smaller place to another they may bring in the business men who are on day trips. If they want to go to high density airports (even high density GA airports like TEB) they are going to have some problems with giant ramp fees even with buying fuel since the FBOs won't make the money they need for the ramp space on fuel alone. A ramp fee of a few hundred dollars will throw the economics of the VLJ out the window. Those fees will raise and happen at more and more places as the ramps get more and more full with more airplanes.

They are also going to have a hard time crewing all these airplanes. The regionals already have a hard time getting pilots. The fractionals are growing and the the majors are starting to spool up their hiring. They are going to have to offer good pay and benefits to get the pilots they need and good pay and benefits tend to raise the price of the service offered. I guess we'll wait and see what happens as the VLJs come on line.

 

[RNObased]

I think they have a hope of working as Dayjet plans around Florida if their numbers hold up to reality. If they can keep the price low to go direct from one smaller place to another they may bring in the business men who are on day trips. If they want to go to high density airports (even high density GA airports like TEB) they are going to have some problems with giant ramp fees even with buying fuel since the FBOs won't make the money they need for the ramp space on fuel alone. A ramp fee of a few hundred dollars will throw the economics of the VLJ out the window. Those fees will raise and happen at more and more places as the ramps get more and more full with more airplanes.

This is a exellent point that I didn't think about. They won't take enough gas to get the ramp fees wavied at busier airports. This is deal killer in some cases.

 

[Guitar Guy]

Dayjet has some high minimums:

Minimum Qualifications
To be able to deliver the best customer experience in regional travel, DayJet pilots must meet the following minimum qualifications:
3,000 hours flight time (excluding helicopter, simulator and flight engineer time)
1,000 hours as Pilot-in-Command (PIC)
1,000 hours multi-engine
500 hours turbo-jet PIC

And they sound like they want to do single-pilot ops in the future:

Will you fly with one or two pilots?
While the Eclipse 500 very light jet aircraft will be certified for single pilot operations, DayJet will initially operate each aircraft with two pilots.

All of that info is from the Dayjet website. I didn't see anything about compensation though. Makes one wonder...

 

[The_Russian]

I think they have a hope of working as Dayjet plans around Florida if their numbers hold up to reality. If they can keep the price low to go direct from one smaller place to another they may bring in the business men who are on day trips. If they want to go to high density airports (even high density GA airports like TEB) they are going to have some problems with giant ramp fees even with buying fuel since the FBOs won't make the money they need for the ramp space on fuel alone. A ramp fee of a few hundred dollars will throw the economics of the VLJ out the window. Those fees will raise and happen at more and more places as the ramps get more and more full with more airplanes.

They are also going to have a hard time crewing all these airplanes. The regionals already have a hard time getting pilots. The fractionals are growing and the the majors are starting to spool up their hiring. They are going to have to offer good pay and benefits to get the pilots they need and good pay and benefits tend to raise the price of the service offered. I guess we'll wait and see what happens as the VLJs come on line.

That being said, they had better hope the FAA doesn't approve the user fees they want to.

 

[Tgaug6300]

How fast do you have to go? I file (and get) all the way up to FL410 with 350-370 TAS. Sometimes, I have to take a vector or delayed climb to filed FL, but it's really not an issue.

Is that in the Eclipse? It is my understanding that with the avionics issues they have been having the airplane is not even RVSM cert. yet (however, they give you a handy dandy Garmin 496 handheld GPS). The fastest I've seen them on Flightaware is 290kts.

 

[JimNtexas]

My only concern with this airplane is that it has no independant backup adi.

It was certified on the basis that each of the three displays can display attitude information from any of the 2 or 3 adhr systems, providing an equivalent level of safety to the normal practice of providing a backup attitude indicator of some kind.

If all the glass goes blank there is no attitude information. (I've heard a rumor that Dayjet sticks a backup ADI on the glareshield).

Every other IFR legal airplane I'm aware of, from the C-172 to the F-22, A-380, and B-777, all have an independent backup attitude instrument of some kind.

The Eclipse may be unique in using the primary displays for backup attitude information.