Power-On Stalls

[Joshrk22]

Okay I'm a 32 hour pilot now and I know I should have this down but I have a question. I did power-on stalls in my 3rd lesson and didn't have any trouble with them.

Last night I did a solo flight and I went to 6,500 feet to do some stalls and steep turns to get my ready for my checkride (I only have my solo x-c left).

I'm in a 182T so I pulled the power back a little bit so I'm not standing on the tail when it stalls. I pull it back about 20 degrees and it stalls, the nose drops, but so does a wing. I did spins in my last lesson so I know what a spin is and how to get in and out of one.

Every time I did it the right wing dropped and the plane rolled into a 30-40 degree bank. I tried to do my best with keeping the ball centered but it was swinging way out to the right. The only way I could stay within +/-5 of my heading was to use right rudder and opposite aileron. The only problem with this is you are crossing the controls while you are stalled which could put you into a spin.

So I did about 8-9 that way, well I got back home and opened up books and read online that what I was doing was incredibly wrong. Using opposite aileron actually makes the stall worse.

So my question is, if the ball is swinging way out to the right and the right wing is dropping, won't me stepping on the right rudder only increase the bank further and make the roll worse?

My instructor is at Oshkosh and I can't get back up with him until this weekend. I'm planning to do another flight Thursday and I want to do these properly. Like I said, I've done them before and had no problems with them, I've just got into the habit of using aileron to pick up a dropped wing.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

Power-on stalls will require a greater amount of right rudder compared to a power-off stall. The plane you're flying has a pretty strong engine compared to most trainers. This will produce more pronounced left-turning tendencies which require a greater effort on the rudder pedals.

The right wing might be dropping because you're holding in too much right rudder at the stall or not releasing it in time. Don't focus too much inside at the inclinometer. Instead, just focus on the nose of the plane and keeping it straight with the rudder.

I've seen inclinometers hang incorrectly in their case. Best to just set the heading bug, find a point outside and maintain directional control by use of the rudder. If you manage to do this, i assure you the ball *should" be centered and you won't need any aileron at all.

The aileron shouldn't be used during stalls as it can exacerbate the stall when the wing drops.

Let's say the right wing drops and you use left aileron. The right aileron will deflect downward, increasing the wings (already high) angle of attack and subsequent drag. This drag is what will FURTHER pull the wing down into a deeper stall/spin.

 

[sqwkvfr]

^^^^^Beat me to it.

 

[Joshrk22]

Thanks ARF, I will give it a try next time.

 

[Joshrk22]

Well it seems like the best thing to do is keep your eyes outside. When you are doing a power-on stall sometimes the nose comes up to 30 degrees. What references do you use when the nose is up that high?

 

[Amish RakeFight]

Well it seems like the best thing to do is keep your eyes outside. When you are doing a power-on stall sometimes the nose comes up to 30 degrees. What references do you use when the nose is up that high?

Its been a while, but I believe the PTS allows for 65% or 75% of full power during the maneuver. This is as you stated, to prevent the nose from becoming abnormally high.

The nose will surely be higher in a power-on, but it need not be 30 degrees. That seems pretty steep. If the pitch is too high, you might be pulling up way too quickly. Try increasing pitch a little slower so that the airspeed has a chance to bleed off.

As I said before, you're gonna botch the manuever if you focus too much on the heading indicator and inclinometer. Keep your eyes outside and watch the nose. This should be a pitch and rudder exercise essentially. Pitch up steadily, and progressively increase the right rudder as the airspeed decreases. Just use enough rudder to keep the nose centered thoroughout the entry and recovery. Once you're stabilized, you'll be plesantly surprised at how well you kept the heading straight.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

(Forgot to address one aspect of your post.)

Well it seems like the best thing to do is keep your eyes outside. When you are doing a power-on stall sometimes the nose comes up to 30 degrees. What references do you use when the nose is up that high?

I realize that sometimes the high pitch attitude obscures your reference point.

You can still maintain your heading by just looking at the nose cowling without a ground point ahead. Using peripheral points as you begin to raise the nose helps too. Next time you're out practicing these things, try watching the nose more closely and you'll see that you will be able to detect any directional deviation simply by observing what the nose is doing. Follow the rivets on the nose cowling and keep them straight.

 

[Joshrk22]

Thanks Amish

 

[pgcfii2002]

Remember right rudder.

Also, per PTS I think you need a minimum of 65% power for the stall. I typically have my students do it around 2000 RPM in a C152 so we don't pitch up as much.

 

[Kenny]

Well it seems like the best thing to do is keep your eyes outside.

That is the best advice you'll be given for maintaining coordination in any stall. Remember, it sounds obvious but it's a visual maneuver so don't look at the "ball", look outside. The nose, relative to a visual reference point will tell you what the ball would.

I always told my students to use a cloud as their reference point when doing power on stalls. Also, pitch up at the same rate you would on rotation. Too many times I flew with students that would pitch up at an excessive rate and not only would things happen a lot quicker but any wing drop would be a lot more pronounced.

 

[AC560]

Its been a while, but I believe the PTS allows for 65% or 75% of full power during the maneuver. This is as you stated, to prevent the nose from becoming abnormally high.

PTS is 65% but they now state "In some high performance airplanes, the power setting may have to be reduced below the practical test standards guideline power setting to prevent excessively high pitch attitudes (greater than 30° nose up)."

Full power on stall in a AC560 is 29mph, would definitely be an E-Ticket ride doing one (an probably a one way ride).

 

[Joshrk22]

When it says 65%, does it mean 65% of the maximum RPM? So on the 182 max RPM is 2,700. So I should do them around 1,800 RPM?

That means the rudder usage will be less and the wing shouldn't drop as much. So it's probably a lot easier to do it that way.

 

[AC560]

When it says 65%, does it mean 65% of the maximum RPM?

65% of available power.

So it's probably a lot easier to do it that way.

Probably true but the purpose is to handle departure stalls so unless you regularly plan on taking off at 65% or less power you might want to be able to cope. Amish gave some good advice on how to master the maneuver, try working through that in conjunction with your instructor. You will get more satisfaction and be a better pilot.

 

[svcta]

Probably true but the purpose is to handle departure stalls so unless you regularly plan on taking off at 65% or less power you might want to be able to cope.

Yeah, but I'd venture to guess that stalling a 182 at takeoff power would be difficult, even intentionally.

To the original poster. Stick to the 65% for purposes of demonstration and practice. (Regarding that power setting: Consult the POH. With a constant speed prop your power setting will be a funtion of both MP and RPM, not just RPM.) You will at least develop an understanding of how to recognize what the airplane will do as it approaches a stall at a high power setting. That's the spirit of the thing. And as far as technique, there's been good advice so far. The best of which is to take your time. A 182 while, as said, having more power than a conventional trainer, also has more mass. Therefore you'll need to allow it to bleed off energy for a little longer as you slowly increase the pitch angle. Let it settle in as you enter the maneuver and you'll see more manageable pitch attitudes, too.

 

[AC560]

Yeah, but I'd venture to guess that stalling a 182 at takeoff power would be difficult, even intentionally.

And anyone who did probably wouldn't be smart enough to recover it in any case. I wasn't implying that the original poster should shove the power in and pull the nose up 90 degrees. My intent was more focus on some of the things Amish posted and at 65%+ power you are going to find it to be a non event.