Midwest Airlines

[OverspeedCowboy]

I am looking for a copy of the YX CBA. Does someone have a copy of the file they can email me, or pm a link to it?

I have been interested in working at YX for a long time, however I want to get a detailed look at their work rules.

Thanks!

 

[CitationLover]

some selected items

2:1 Duty Rig
3.5:1 Trip Rig
Block or better

70hr Line Guarantee (usually built around 85 hours)
75hr Rsv Guarantee (RSV day worth 4 hours for a drop)
70hr Long Term training Guarantee

Vacation is paid 3 hrs/day (2 weeks till 3 years, then 3 weeks till 10 years).

No OT premium.

Junior man is 150% with a min of 4 hours pay on a day off.

DH Pay 50%.

Uniform costs paid 50% by company. Can be payroll deducted for employee share at a max of $35/mo.

Min days off:
Lineholder - 11 in a 30 day month, 12 in a 31 day
Reserve - 10 in a 30 day month, 11 in a 31 day
Reserve days off can slide up to 2 days (one block can be golden ruled). I have heard this is rarely done as I am quite new. Line construction is mostly the same trip with the same days off (most are 4 on / 3 off types) on the 717. Day trips for the MD80 (you will be home every night).

Reserve lines are contractually commutable. 1300 show time on day 1 and 1400 release time on last day if not flying.

Accrue 5 hours of sick time a month. Sick bank is only used below guarantee. This was one of the biggest givebacks on the concessionary contract.

Reserve has 2 hr call out and 12 hr call out lines. 12 hr call outs can be assigned 2 hr call outs twice a month.

Flica bidding/scheduling with SAP1/2, DAP.

Training is fairly low key. Good group of instructors and check airmen. Ground school is 5 weeks in MKE, 2 weeks in ATL (per diem, $1.50, starts in ATL as MKE is your domicile). No hotel paid for in training as the company considers you in domicile (MKE). Contract does not allow midnight sim sessions.

1.4% DB plan with a Age Based DC plan (2/4/6%) carveout. 401k with profit sharing.

2 Flight Rule Commuter policy.

Travel benefits for immediate family. 32 leg buddy passes (charged $35 on midwest, $20 on midwest connect).

Pay rates increase on 9/1/2007 and 8/31/2008. Contract is amendable upon notice 60 days prior to 8/31/2008. This is all of course changeable upon AirTran's buyout. Then a new negotiated contract for the integrated list will have to be made.

 

[pit717]

no it wont..............youll live with ours ..and hopefully with your dumbass attitude youll be stapled to the bottom

 

[CitationLover]

no it wont..............

yes it will. do you work as a 717 instructor? you're hostile.

 

[FlyWolf]

no it wont..............youll live with ours ..and hopefully with your dumbass attitude youll be stapled to the bottom

Nice attitude guy.

 

[gt1900]

Citation... Be careful.. The AAI guys have been farely open about the integration.. However, there is alot of AAI guys on this website and if you keep this up, thier attitude towards the integration might just change... Remember, if this merger happens, your going to be the "acquired" company... You keep up this attitude and the AAI pilots might just like to see your @ss stapled to the bottom... If I where a MEH pilot Id be slapping your probationary @ss upside the head to get you to shut your loud mouth... BTW... The 717 instructors are only "hostile" to those who aren't cutting it.... Its been said before, study, play by the rules, and training is a piece of cake... If people are getting screamed at its because they are screwing up, simple as that..

 

[CitationLover]

Citation... Be careful.. The AAI guys have been farely open about the integration.. However, there is alot of AAI guys on this website and if you keep this up, thier attitude towards the integration might just change... Remember, if this merger happens, your going to be the "acquired" company... You keep up this attitude and the AAI pilots might just like to see your @ss stapled to the bottom... If I where a MEH pilot Id be slapping your probationary @ss upside the head to get you to shut your loud mouth... BTW... The 717 instructors are only "hostile" to those who aren't cutting it.... Its been said before, study, play by the rules, and training is a piece of cake... If people are getting screamed at its because they are screwing up, simple as that..

So the pilots at AAI get their merger advice from flightinfo.com? Wow, I did not realize I have that power! Does General Lee affect your contract negotiations when he talks about how Delta is great, since JL compares you to them?

I take it then you think it is acceptable for an instructor to kick the back of a chair and throw things just because they "ain't cutting it"? I forgot we're "professionals".

 

[FlyWolf]

Wow, what is going on tonight, a lot of hostilities I sense (yoda's voice) , relax guys, there is nothing any of us can do, just relax, have fun and enjoy the ride.

 

[CitationLover]

Wow, what is going on tonight, a lot of hostilities I sense (yoda's voice) , relax guys, there is nothing any of us can do, just relax, have fun and enjoy the ride.

It's all my fault. My bad! Sorry overspeedcowboy for the hijack.

there, i beat gt1900 to it.

 

[gt1900]

"Professionals" study and show up prepared, they don't get their seats kicked and things thrown at them.. If your "unprofessional" you show up unprepared and screw up, most likely the reason behind the seat kicking (which, I really don't believe anyway).. Get it, not hard to understand....
Citation, if your smart, you will just shut up and stop knocking AAI. You will also take down your smart @ss pict of JL. Ever heard the quote "don't bite that hand that feeds you"? That hand might just be the one feeding you in a couple months... Take Flywolfs advice, enjoy the ride, relax, and Id also suggest you stop bashing AAI... Hell, you might be suprised, you might even like it over here.......

 

[CitationLover]

"Professionals" study and show up prepared, they don't get their seats kicked and things thrown at them.. If your "unprofessional" you show up unprepared and screw up, most likely the reason behind the seat kicking (which, I really don't believe anyway).. Get it, not hard to understand....
Citation, if your smart, you will just shut up and stop knocking AAI. You will also take down your smart @ss pict of JL. Ever heard the quote "don't bite that hand that feeds you"? That hand might just be the one feeding you in a couple months... Take Flywolfs advice, enjoy the ride, relax, and Id also suggest you stop bashing AAI... Hell, you might be suprised, you might even like it over here.......

I already told you I would like it over there, just not being based in ATL and commuting. I would even enjoy slinging gear for you.

Since when is JL a hero to the pilots at AAI? I think it has been fairly clear that from about 6pm CST tonight, I have been facetious in most of my posts (the pension one excepted as someone was blaming ALPA for the pension industry demise).

 

[IdRtherBsailing]

Citation... Be careful.. The AAI guys have been farely open about the integration.. However, there is alot of AAI guys on this website and if you keep this up, thier attitude towards the integration might just change... Remember, if this merger happens, your going to be the "acquired" company... You keep up this attitude and the AAI pilots might just like to see your @ss stapled to the bottom... If I where a MEH pilot Id be slapping your probationary @ss upside the head to get you to shut your loud mouth... BTW... The 717 instructors are only "hostile" to those who aren't cutting it.... Its been said before, study, play by the rules, and training is a piece of cake... If people are getting screamed at its because they are screwing up, simple as that..

Am I missing something? CL posted a response to someones question regarding the contract and was immediately slammed by some of you pros. Any instructor who yells at their students should not be in the training department. Its negative reinforcement and usually produces poor results. If someone is not performing to standards and if retraining isn't helping then they should be cut loose. If it gets to that level there are probably bigger issues with the training dept and possibly screening process for hiring.

Your comment proposing that AAI pilots will consider posts on this bitch board when deciding integration is pretty sad.

If a buyout would happen, there is a chance it could go to arbitration. Look at the USAIR/AWA situation.

I actually feel that all of your hostility toward CL is purely because he makes you look stupid on here.

 

[CitationLover]

Am I missing something? CL posted a response to someones question regarding the contract and was immediately slammed by some of you pros. Any instructor who yells at their students should not be in the training department. Its negative reinforcement and usually produces poor results. If someone is not performing to standards and if retraining isn't helping then they should be cut loose. If it gets to that level there are probably bigger issues with the training dept and possibly screening process for hiring.

Your comment proposing that AAI pilots will consider posts on this bitch board when deciding integration is pretty sad.

If a buyout would happen, there is a chance it could go to arbitration. Look at the USAIR/AWA situation.

I actually feel that all of your hostility toward CL is purely because he makes you look stupid on here.

Wow a fan! He's got low standards!

Come on now, it should not be that personal. No ad hominem attacking allowed.

 

[IdRtherBsailing]

Wow a fan!

Come on now, it should not be that personal. No ad hominem attacking allowed.

I am sorry. I don't think he looks stupid. I am the one who feels stupid. Not to hijack this thread anymore but I was thinking I could maybe get college credits from the other thread. I learned a lot. What does hominem mean?

 

[CitationLover]

I am sorry. I don't think he looks stupid. I am the one who feels stupid. Not to hijack this thread anymore but I was thinking I could maybe get college credits from the other thread. I learned a lot. What does hominem mean?

You know what they say. When you look stupid (a normal situation for me), speak in latin!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

 

[IdRtherBsailing]

Thanks for the link. Actually thats what I have seen coming at you which is why I returned some fire.

 

[CitationLover]

Wow, what is going on tonight, a lot of hostilities I sense (yoda's voice) , relax guys, there is nothing any of us can do, just relax, have fun and enjoy the ride.

Yes getting back to the original question, overspeedcowboy, flywolf is the man. He more than helped me with any questions I had or he knew the right people to direct you to.

 

[Kharma Police]

Stupid, not considering the source. A Midwest new hire not out of training yet; with a Wisconsin beer belly full of MEH Kool-Aid. I noticed the "new-hire" is the only one from Midwest trying to stir the pot. The few others like Wolf (who I believe is a senior FO) see the merits of the AirTran proposal. As for the "new-hire", given his candor on this board, he will probably be the one running his mouth once he gets on-line, in which I'm sure the Midwest pilots will quickly label him as the "Midwest Village Idiot" so please don't use him as a representation of our airline or pilot group.

 

[CitationLover]

Stupid, not considering the source. A Midwest new hire not out of training yet; with a Wisconsin beer belly full of MEH Kool-Aid. I noticed the "new-hire" is the only one from Midwest trying to stir the pot. The few others like Wolf (who I believe is a senior FO) see the merits of the AirTran proposal. As for the "new-hire", given his candor on this board, he will probably be the one running his mouth once he gets on-line, in which I'm sure the Midwest pilots will quickly label him as the "Midwest Village Idiot" so please don't use him as a representation of our airline or pilot group.

Not a wisconsinite either. Lear70 has stated he doesn't see the merits either (from the opposite side, he sees it as bad for AAI). Is it simply agree with this merger or you're the idiot new hire not out of training yet? I do see the merits of the merger (quicker upgrade time for me, quicker time off of reserve), but simply want the status quo.

Long before I stated my opinion it was a few AirTran pilots on here blasting TimH and Midwest for their "growth" plan. It was them swallowing the koolaid from their management and repeating it on here and selling themselves. But now when the shoes on the other foot, you get "<insert company here> Village Idiot".

 

[PCL_128]

yes it will. do you work as a 717 instructor? you're hostile.

You know, this rumor really needs to stop. None of my instructors in the 717 program were anything even remotely resembling "hostile." To the contrary, every one of them gave me their personal cell phone numbers and encouraged me to call them 24 hours a day with any questions I came up with during studying. None raised their voices, kicked any chairs, or did anything else "hostile." Put this ridiculous stereotype to rest.

P.S. Say what you will about Joe, but your boy Timmy certainly isn't the brightest crayon in the carton.

 

[CitationLover]

You know, this rumor really needs to stop. None of my instructors in the 717 program were anything even remotely resembling "hostile." To the contrary, every one of them gave me their personal cell phone numbers and encouraged me to call them 24 hours a day with any questions I came up with during studying. None raised their voices, kicked any chairs, or did anything else "hostile." Put this ridiculous stereotype to rest.

P.S. Say what you will about Joe, but your boy Timmy certainly isn't the brightest crayon in the carton.

Glad to hear that re: instructors. I will talk to the person I have heard this from (although I see no reason why he would lie about this).

No one said Tim was a genius. I think he is simply trying to save his "baby" to the best of his ability. JL, in all fairness, learned under some ruthless people at NWA, AA, and Eastern. I am sure he is better at his job thanks to this. They're both a little overpaid if you ask me.

 

[PCL_128]

No one said Tim was a genius. I think he is simply trying to save his "baby" to the best of his ability.

But that's not what his job is. His job is to protect the shareholders, not "his baby." The shareholders have loudly voiced their opinion on this, and it doesn't jive with what you and Tim want. It's time for Tim to step aside and let the shareholders get the merger that they want.

 

[FlyWolf]

I am looking for a copy of the YX CBA. Does someone have a copy of the file they can email me, or pm a link to it?

I have been interested in working at YX for a long time, however I want to get a detailed look at their work rules.

Thanks!

Overspeed, CitationLover did a great job listing the Midex work rules, please pm me with your email and I will send you a PDF copy of the CBA.

Good luck to you, and let me know if you need any other info about Midex.

 

[Lear70]

That's not "entirely" accurate.

I said I didn't see the merits of acquiring a company operating a bunch of 717's (an aircraft that is just marginally profitable because of fuel costs and an eventual mx/parts cost liability) flying out of a hub in MKE that is busy, but hardly the bustling competitive hub for ORD/MDW that people think, when there are other options.

Obviously we need to merge with someone to have a better route structure. I'd prefer that airline be someone further out west or someone with a good international feed structure to Mexico, Canada, and the Caribbean, possibly even South America to give us a truly competitive route structure that none of our LCC competition has.

Obviously I don't have an MBA, so I'll simply have to hope they know what they're doing in Orlando, and their track record suggests that they do.

Citation, you might want to clarify that a combined company would NOT get to magically bargain for a new pilot contract. They would only be negotiating for integrating the employee list into the new AAI contract, as AAI is still the acquiring and surviving carrier, not for an entirely new CBA.

Back to the whipping post...

 

[CitationLover]

That's not "entirely" accurate.

I said I didn't see the merits of acquiring a company operating a bunch of 717's (an aircraft that is just marginally profitable because of fuel costs and an eventual mx/parts cost liability) flying out of a hub in MKE that is busy, but hardly the bustling competitive hub for ORD/MDW that people think, when there are other options.

Obviously we need to merge with someone to have a better route structure. I'd prefer that airline be someone further out west or someone with a good international feed structure to Mexico, Canada, and the Caribbean, possibly even South America to give us a truly competitive route structure that none of our LCC competition has.

I think AMR is finally waking up to Spirit in the Caribbean. I don't think they will take to kindly to anymore intrusions.

Citation, you might want to clarify that a combined company would NOT get to magically bargain for a new pilot contract. They would only be negotiating for integrating the employee list into the new AAI contract, as AAI is still the acquiring and surviving carrier, not for an entirely new CBA.

Back to the whipping post...

Thank you for explaining it better. I thought there would be an opportunity to renegotiate a new CBA. Are you telling me that the Airways guys will be under the AWA contract once the integration is settled?

 

[CitationLover]

But that's not what his job is. His job is to protect the shareholders, not "his baby." The shareholders have loudly voiced their opinion on this, and it doesn't jive with what you and Tim want. It's time for Tim to step aside and let the shareholders get the merger that they want.

Actually his job is to manage the company. The board of directors (of which he reports to) are the ones responsible to the shareholders.

Has Tim done anything illegal with respect to the shareholders? They voted in the 3 bought and paid for AAI directors. Goldman Sachs said the board could get more money from AAI so they listened.

 

[Lear70]

I think AMR is finally waking up to Spirit in the Caribbean. I don't think they will take to kindly to anymore intrusions.

I agree. That's why I'd rather merge with Spirit or Frontier, to make a behemoth LCC with major Caribbean and South American presence with the remaining 737 deliveries converted to -800's before AMR or even DAL has a chance to react.

But, again, I ain't callin' the shots in Orlando (and wouldn't want to, and probably we're better off not).

Thank you for explaining it better. I thought there would be an opportunity to renegotiate a new CBA.

Only if the CBA that you're acquired under is up for negotiations.

What you DO have the opportunity to do is vote in a controlling MEC. If MEH ALPA did not agree to be represented by the existing NPA, there would be an election by ALL the MEH and AAI pilots, first for ALPA -vs- NPA, then for the BOD/MEC positions.

With NPA having serious DOH integration issues and given ALPA merger policy, (the UAir/AWA seniority integration notwithstanding - it didn't use merger policy, Nicolau ruled because UAir ALPA was stupid and dug their heels in - longer story), the odds of MEH's MEC surviving the transition is unlikely.

Are you telling me that the Airways guys will be under the AWA contract once the integration is settled?

UAir/AWA is different because BOTH groups, prior to the arbitration issue, negotiated a "transition agreement" with both management teams that they would collectively bargain a new CBA during the integration process. See here:

[SIZE=-1]www.alpa.org/DesktopModules/ALPA_Documents/ALPA_DocumentsDownload.aspx?itemid=4259&ModuleId=2618[/SIZE]

Because management agreed, they're now bargaining together. Don't think you'll see that here.

If we're still in negotiations after the merger (assuming we don't have to spend 18-24 or even 36 months forcing a seniority integration through a single carrier petition), then all bets are off.

You have some scheduling rules that are better, then again, you have some that are worse (fewer days off on reserve, MDO's, fewer days off for lineholders, but a working FLICA system and other positives).

You have better F/O pay, especially after year 4, but worse CA pay (our new T.A. rates). We have a 10.5% B-fund and a 2% 401(k) by 2009. However, I believe your insurance rates are substantially lower than ours.

Our T.A. is, overall, an improvement over yours, but shorts the bottom half of the list through work rule concessions and jeopardizes their jobs through Scope concessions.

Right now, getting from the bottom half to the top half is only 4-5 years. With a merged list and slower upgrades without an increase in aircraft delivery slots, that time on the bottom is substantially increased.

Hence why I'm up in D.C. fighting for better QOL while on the bottom 1/2 and making sure the top half doesn't suffer the slippage of RJ's to Express Carriers and large SJ's replacing the 717 in the next 5-7 years at that ridiculous 100-seat pay scale.

Don't want perfect, just current book or better.

 

[PCL_128]

If MEH ALPA did not agree to be represented by the existing NPA

I think you can count on that.

 

[CitationLover]

Only if the CBA that you're acquired under is up for negotiations.

Ok, but for example we have a pension plan. Does this plan automatically terminate? Does this monthly benefit get converted into the AirTran B fund? Is it simply frozen? This is something I would imagine that is negotiated.

Does our Allegheny-Mohawk LPP language for our successor still bear out? Although it appears it will soon be law: http://www.fordharrison.com/shownews.aspx?Show=2888

What you DO have the opportunity to do is vote in a controlling MEC. If MEH ALPA did not agree to be represented by the existing NPA, there would be an election by ALL the MEH and AAI pilots, first for ALPA -vs- NPA, then for the BOD/MEC positions.

With NPA having serious DOH integration issues and given ALPA merger policy, (the UAir/AWA seniority integration notwithstanding - it didn't use merger policy, Nicolau ruled because UAir ALPA was stupid and dug their heels in - longer story), the odds of MEH's MEC surviving the transition is unlikely.

UAir/AWA is different because BOTH groups, prior to the arbitration issue, negotiated a "transition agreement" with both management teams that they would collectively bargain a new CBA during the integration process. See here:

[SIZE=-1]www.alpa.org/DesktopModules/ALPA_Documents/ALPA_DocumentsDownload.aspx?itemid=4259&ModuleId=2618[/SIZE]

Because management agreed, they're now bargaining together. Don't think you'll see that here.

If we're still in negotiations after the merger (assuming we don't have to spend 18-24 or even 36 months forcing a seniority integration through a single carrier petition), then all bets are off.

You have some scheduling rules that are better, then again, you have some that are worse (fewer days off on reserve, MDO's, fewer days off for lineholders, but a working FLICA system and other positives).

You have better F/O pay, especially after year 4, but worse CA pay (our new T.A. rates). We have a 10.5% B-fund and a 2% 401(k) by 2009. However, I believe your insurance rates are substantially lower than ours.

Our T.A. is, overall, an improvement over yours, but shorts the bottom half of the list through work rule concessions and jeopardizes their jobs through Scope concessions.

Right now, getting from the bottom half to the top half is only 4-5 years. With a merged list and slower upgrades without an increase in aircraft delivery slots, that time on the bottom is substantially increased.

Hence why I'm up in D.C. fighting for better QOL while on the bottom 1/2 and making sure the top half doesn't suffer the slippage of RJ's to Express Carriers and large SJ's replacing the 717 in the next 5-7 years at that ridiculous 100-seat pay scale.

Don't want perfect, just current book or better.

Thank you for your efforts. Do you think the Reserve System at AAI will remain at current book?

 

[Lear70]

Is it a D.B. fund or a D.C. fund?

If it's a D.B. fund, it would, more than likely, have to be converted somehow; I really don't know what happens in that case.

Midwest is being acquired and operations merged. I imagine that means you'd fall under our defined contribution after the acquisition, have no idea how they'd deal with the D.B. fund...?


Reserves? Can't say.

The proposed T.A. that was put out last month is a complete rewrite of the reserve section, and there's a lot of negative loophole language in it.