ASA Paint Jobs

[ASARJMan]

So does it bother anyone else that ASA is the only DCI carrier that does not have a new Delta Paint job?

Doesn't bother me. Paint 'em all white for generic flying in the future.

 

[Oakum_Boy]

I blame Option #4.

 

[JoeMerchant]

You didn't state who you're blaming Joey, ALPA or management, for ASA not flying them.

I blame ALPA..... management (JA) only followed thru on his threat..... We are now a commodity because ALPA has failed to deal with the fee-for-departure whipsaw.....

Either accept it or change it.... I prefer to change it, but people like you don't want to hold ALPA accountable for their failures and change things... so now we need to accept that we are competing with one another...

Those were ASA orders, and the first aircraft had an EV tail number. ALPA wants to play hardball (even though we are pitching softballs) and JA continues to hit them out of the park....

Jerry will play ball to a certain point, and then he is going to take his ball home.....

Nothing ALPA can do about that.....

 

[FmrFreightDog]

I blame ALPA..... management (JA) only followed thru on his threat..... We are now a commodity because ALPA has failed to deal with the fee-for-departure whipsaw.....

Either accept it or change it.... I prefer to change it, but people like you don't want to hold ALPA accountable for their failures and change things... so now we need to accept that we are competing with one another...

Those were ASA orders, and the first aircraft had an EV tail number. ALPA wants to play hardball (even though we are pitching softballs) and JA continues to hit them out of the park....

Jerry will play ball to a certain point, and then he is going to take his ball home.....

Nothing ALPA can do about that.....

Once again, in plain English....

Your solution is..................?

No more abstracts. I want specifics. Fix this problem, and make me a believer.......

 

[jeroom]

Who cares if it's a new paint job, an old one...or else..
they all look like the same from the inside. (well, almost...)

 

[JoeMerchant]

Once again, in plain English....

Your solution is..................?

No more abstracts. I want specifics. Fix this problem, and make me a believer.......

Once again "IN PLAIN ENGLISH"....I have posted it numerous times on BOTH message boards..... not my fault if you haven't read it or if you have ignored it....

1. As with any emergency..... "fly the airplane", or "stop the bleeding".....

We do not need more competitors within the whipsaw game. We do not need more Compass or MidAtlantics. ALPA needs to quit creating more cheap whipsaws....

They also don't need to sign language such as that in the last NWA ALPA agreement that eliminates current ALPA regionals from future flying in favor of other whipsaws..... just so mainline pilots can take a "bargaining credit" at the table...

2. Honest to goodness "brand scope" or "inclusive scope"..... use ALPA's label or RJDCs label..... I don't care.... stop putting more flying "out for bid"....

3. Implement a national seniority list..... otherwise forget about people laying everything on the line..... I don't want to hear excuses..... the simple fact is, without a safety net, nobody is going to lead you up the hill when you say "charge"....

4. Barriers to entry. No other profesion allows people with such little experience. It is BOTH a safety issue and a collective bargaining issue. If ALPA can argue that a 60 year old pilot is dangerous when he wasn't the day before, surely they can argue that it is dangerous to have 250 hour pilots in a 121 cockpit..... double standard that is harmfull.....

5. Barring any meaningful movement on the first 4 issues above, then we need to accept that we are competing with each other, and as such we need to be competitive... I would prefer working on the first 4, but I am not holding my breath....

Either stop the competition within a brand, or compete..... it's really quite simple. Don't continue to allow it and then b!tch about it because you don't like it....

Plain enough English..... I have posted it before....

Now FmrFreight... in plain English what is YOUR solution? Continue status quo? Continue to support a failed plan, or change strategies..... What is YOUR solution?

Please spare me the canned "ALPA speaks for me and I tell them what to do....."

 

[PositionandHold]

Kind of off topic, but is ASA hats optional?

 

[FmrFreightDog]

Once again "IN PLAIN ENGLISH"....I have posted it numerous times on BOTH message boards..... not my fault if you haven't read it or if you have ignored it....

1. As with any emergency..... "fly the airplane", or "stop the bleeding".....

We do not need more competitors within the whipsaw game. We do not need more Compass or MidAtlantics. ALPA needs to quit creating more cheap whipsaws....

They also don't need to sign language such as that in the last NWA ALPA agreement that eliminates current ALPA regionals from future flying in favor of other whipsaws..... just so mainline pilots can take a "bargaining credit" at the table...

2. Honest to goodness "brand scope" or "inclusive scope"..... use ALPA's label or RJDCs label..... I don't care.... stop putting more flying "out for bid"....

3. Implement a national seniority list..... otherwise forget about people laying everything on the line..... I don't want to hear excuses..... the simple fact is, without a safety net, nobody is going to lead you up the hill when you say "charge"....

4. Barriers to entry. No other profesion allows people with such little experience. It is BOTH a safety issue and a collective bargaining issue. If ALPA can argue that a 60 year old pilot is dangerous when he wasn't the day before, surely they can argue that it is dangerous to have 250 hour pilots in a 121 cockpit..... double standard that is harmfull.....

5. Barring any meaningful movement on the first 4 issues above, then we need to accept that we are competing with each other, and as such we need to be competitive... I would prefer working on the first 4, but I am not holding my breath....

Either stop the competition within a brand, or compete..... it's really quite simple. Don't continue to allow it and then b!tch about it because you don't like it....

Plain enough English..... I have posted it before....

Now FmrFreight... in plain English what is YOUR solution? Continue status quo? Continue to support a failed plan, or change strategies..... What is YOUR solution?

Please spare me the canned "ALPA speaks for me and I tell them what to do....."

Joe,

I honestly don't have a simple solution. I agree wholeheartedly with all of your bullet points except for number 3. I think the barriers to a national seniority list are so high that the concept in unattainable. Also, when you are dealing with a tiered industry like ours, I feel the concept is unrealistic.

Speaking of unrealistic, as much as I appreciate the ideals you speak of, I don't ever see any of it coming to fruition.

Speaking to point number one.. managements drive the creation of alter-egos far more than ALPA does. Due to the mechanics of the RLA, ALPA pilots find themselves working under contracts that were written long before 9/11 and the latest unraveling of the airline industry was ever a consideration. ALPA is, for lack of a better term here, a victim of circumstance. The contracts they negotiated in '98, '99, and '00 had no way of seeing the future that we now find ourselves in. Consequently, they never thought to negotiate provisions to protect themselves from the unthinkable. When Delta pilots ratified contract '00 ('01 maybe?? I can't remember), the idea that 49% of their flying would someday be farmed out was such an unthinkable concept that they would have been irresponsible to waste negotiating capital to prevent it.

Speaking to point #2... I agree with you, but ALPA does not have the ability, given the current mainline contracts, to stop the RFP nightmare.

In my version of plain english, regardless of how ALPA feels about the whipsaw, the RFPs, the competition within a brand, and the newly minted cutthroat nature of the regional flying industry, they do not have the contractual muscle to fall back on in order to stop it. No current legacy carrier's contract contains suitable language to put an end to the situation we are in.

I feel that, as the fortunes of the legacy carriers improve, the pilots will be in a position to put an end to what we all have been experiencing for the last several years. Unfortunately, they will put an end to it by taking back the flying they have lost in the last 5 years or so. When that happens, there will be multitudes of regional guys who will complain that mainline is stealing "their flying", but they will never stop to think that it was flying that was stolen away from mainline in the first place.

We are subcontractors. When you came to work here, you knew that you would, in essence, be the "drywall guy". Now it seems that the drywall guy feels he's entitled to be the general contractor simply by virtue of the fact that he's been the "drywall guy" for the last 15 years. All of us knew what we were getting into when we took the job. Only a select few of us are arrogant enough to think we can change the rules of the game after kickoff.....

As for point #4, I agree with you 100%. We should not be in the situation we are in where a pilot who is unqualified to fly single pilot night freight is, somehow, magically qualified to sit in the right seat of an airliner. This is, in my opinion, the biggest threat to our profession today.

 

[Papa Woody]

We should not be in the situation we are in where a pilot who is unqualified to fly single pilot night freight is, somehow, magically qualified to sit in the right seat of an airliner. This is, in my opinion, the biggest threat to our profession today.

THAT is an excellent point.

If only the flying public knew. It's such a morale-killer for the experienced pilots, and until a crash is blamed on it, nothing will be done.

 

[SPDBRD747400]

Kind of off topic, but is ASA hats optional?

Sure...No contract no hats!

 

[McNugent]

Kind of off topic, but is ASA hats optional?

I'm really glad I spent $70 on one. It does a great job as a CD holder in my car.

 

[MELIT]

I'm really glad I spent $70 on one. It does a great job as a CD holder in my car.

It looks like your wearing it in your avatar.

 

[McNugent]

It looks like your wearing it in your avatar.

That was taken during IOE. I wore it then

 

[CFI2766]

4. Barriers to entry. No other profesion allows people with such little experience. It is BOTH a safety issue and a collective bargaining issue. If ALPA can argue that a 60 year old pilot is dangerous when he wasn't the day before, surely they can argue that it is dangerous to have 250 hour pilots in a 121 cockpit..... double standard that is harmfull.....



I agree with everything you have said up to this point, but cheerefully invite you to perform an anatomical impossibility upon yourself on this issue.

Really now, do simple hours make the qualifications for a pilot? I think not. I've flown with 400 hour guys/gals that can fly circles around 9000 hour guys. The 'barrier to entry' that you speak of is the new hire training given at our airline. It is the checkride that we all passed in the sim, and then, later, in the actual airplane before we even saw our first IOE captain or revenue passenger.

If a 400 hour guy/gal can hack it, so be it. If a 2000 hour guy/gal can not, then they wash out from the training. If this natural selection is not happening, blame the folks in the training department, not the new-hire pilot.

For the record, I had over 2000 thousand hours prior to my employment at the regional airline of my choice.

 

[JoeMerchant]

I agree with everything you have said up to this point, but cheerefully invite you to perform an anatomical impossibility upon yourself on this issue.

Really now, do simple hours make the qualifications for a pilot? I think not. I've flown with 400 hour guys/gals that can fly circles around 9000 hour guys. The 'barrier to entry' that you speak of is the new hire training given at our airline. It is the checkride that we all passed in the sim, and then, later, in the actual airplane before we even saw our first IOE captain or revenue passenger.

If a 400 hour guy/gal can hack it, so be it. If a 2000 hour guy/gal can not, then they wash out from the training. If this natural selection is not happening, blame the folks in the training department, not the new-hire pilot.

For the record, I had over 2000 thousand hours prior to my employment at the regional airline of my choice.

1. People are passing right now that shouldn't be in the right seat....

2. No other profession allows people to enter with as little training as we do. You can show up in Florida with a wad of cash, and after 10 months be in the right seat of an RJ. Can you do that if you want to be a doctor, lawyer, accountant, engineer, or architect?

Either this job is easier than the other professions, in which case we will get paid less, OR we have made the barriers to low.

We can have this argument all night long (and probably will for the matter....) but the fact is as long as it is so easy to enter, expect more of the same......

 

[Jmoney]

Joe Merchant-You are pathetic

Look guys-
What we have here is a sad, sad RJDC guy. That stands for RJ Defense Coalition-for those who may not be aware.

These guys are here to try and destroy ALPA. That is their only purpose in life. You notice how ALPA is bad and thre company is almost as bad, but not quite?

Let's blame it all on ALPA, let's sue ALPA-(which has been going on for years, to no avail.)
Let's scare all the big guys away from ALPA if the suit ever gets anywhere....

The effect of these morons is to make management even stronger and all pilot unions weaker..... These guys don't care about anything but bashing ALPA and throwing the old (and I do mean really old) "whipsaw" term around a lot.

This guy is one of the people who didn't get elected to our local ALPA (to try and screw it up from within) and he is pissed at the world now...
It is not hard to figure this guy out-he does the same silly thing of quoting the entire post of whoever he is tryng to reply to all over again on our ALPA board. Weak, and silly, but very predictable...
-Lame, Lame

 

[John Pennekamp]

Are you even an ASA pilot?

Look guys-
What we have here is a sad, sad RJDC guy. That stands for RJ Defense Coalition-for those who may not be aware.

These guys are here to try and destroy ALPA. That is their only purpose in life. You notice how ALPA is bad and thre company is almost as bad, but not quite?

Let's blame it all on ALPA, let's sue ALPA-(which has been going on for years, to no avail.)
Let's scare all the big guys away from ALPA if the suit ever gets anywhere....

The effect of these morons is to make management even stronger and all pilot unions weaker..... These guys don't care about anything but bashing ALPA and throwing the old (and I do mean really old) "whipsaw" term around a lot.

This guy is one of the people who didn't get elected to our local ALPA (to try and screw it up from within) and he is pissed at the world now...
It is not hard to figure this guy out-he does the same silly thing of quoting the entire post of whoever he is tryng to reply to all over again on our ALPA board. Weak, and silly, but very predictable...
-Lame, Lame

"Joe Merchant" was an elected rep. Unfortunately he never showed up and never did the job he was elected to do. When he met resistance, he gave up instead of sticking in there and being a pain in their side. But he did get elected once. And he wasn't on the ballot of the FAB 4.

As for the RJDC, the RJDC has publicly disavowed association with him because of his "contraversial" views making their cause look bad.

Maybe you could actually address the issue instead of bashing people you hardly know with information you gained third hand? That may give the slightest appearance of intelligence that all of you posts have lacked thus far.

 

[Superpilot92]

I saw a comair plane in RDU with the new paint job a couple days ago.

 

[goahead]

I just painted my car in the new Delta colors, man its sweet....

 

[Jmoney]

Really!

"Joe Merchant" was an elected rep. Unfortunately he never showed up and never did the job he was elected to do. When he met resistance, he gave up instead of sticking in there and being a pain in their side.

WAY TO GO SPANKY-Thanks for your service, or just being a tool, or just wasting everyone's time. Next time, do the right thing- JUST DON'T RUN!

I don't see how either one of you could be considered "controversial." You both fuss and complain about the union one minute and the company the next. If what you state is true, even the RJDC will not associate with Joe.

What is the point of all these posts? I read post after post and they are all pretty much saying the same things-to paraphrase "life sucks, the union sucks, everybody sucks-then we die."

I know the company bites, some things about the union bite, but I see nothng but useless blathering and no useful ideas of any kind out of you two numbnuts. I personally don't come here to change anyone's mind-and I don't think either of you are changing any minds, just jacking around with endless bitter exhanges with people who truly couldn't care less what you think.

Here is a suggestion to maybe make you both better liked-STOP QUOTING THE ENTIRE PREVIOUS POSTS! No one cares, if they want to go and read the whole thing for themselves they can do so-REPOSTING THE ENTIRE THING IS A WASTE OF TIME!!!!!!!!!!

Both you drooling chuckleheads do that on our ASA ALPA board!

JUST SAY NO!!!!!!!

 

[John Pennekamp]

"Joe Merchant" was an elected rep. Unfortunately he never showed up and never did the job he was elected to do. When he met resistance, he gave up instead of sticking in there and being a pain in their side.

WAY TO GO SPANKY-Thanks for your service, or just being a tool, or just wasting everyone's time. Next time, do the right thing- JUST DON'T RUN!

I don't see how either one of you could be considered "controversial." You both fuss and complain about the union one minute and the company the next. If what you state is true, even the RJDC will not associate with Joe.

What is the point of all these posts? I read post after post and they are all pretty much saying the same things-to paraphrase "life sucks, the union sucks, everybody sucks-then we die."

I know the company bites, some things about the union bite, but I see nothng but useless blathering and no useful ideas of any kind out of you two numbnuts. I personally don't come here to change anyone's mind-and I don't think either of you are changing any minds, just jacking around with endless bitter exhanges with people who truly couldn't care less what you think.

Here is a suggestion to maybe make you both better liked-STOP QUOTING THE ENTIRE PREVIOUS POSTS! No one cares, if they want to go and read the whole thing for themselves they can do so-REPOSTING THE ENTIRE THING IS A WASTE OF TIME!!!!!!!!!!

Both you drooling chuckleheads do that on our ASA ALPA board!

JUST SAY NO!!!!!!!

I quoted your whole post just to piss you off, lol.

Here's a suggestion- If everything you read here is "useless blathering and no useful ideas of any kind" maybe you should leave. Nobody is holding a gun to your head making you read my posts.

Sounds like you're an even bigger idiot. Are you into masochism?

 

[twott driver]

I quoted your whole post just to piss you off, lol.

You sound more and more like a 13 year old school girl. Grow up and get a pair

 

[John Pennekamp]

Grow up and get a pair

Get a pair? Easy for you to say Mr Anonymous Tough Guy, lol :laugh:

 

[Jmoney]

Tool!

The entire point is that you and Joe Merchant are full of "usless blathering and no useful ideas of any kind." There are plenty if great ideas here-none of them happen to be yours because you two are CRAPTARDS!

-Seriously-you just called a guy "Mr Anonymous Tough Guy" Where do you come up with all this witty stuff?

 

[ASADriver]

The entire point is that you and Joe Merchant are full of "usless blathering and no useful ideas of any kind." There are plenty if great ideas here-none of them happen to be yours because you two are CRAPTARDS!

-Seriously-you just called a guy "Mr Anonymous Tough Guy" Where do you come up with all this witty stuff?

What are your great ideas? I haven't heard anything constructive from you.

 

[Jmoney]

My Ideas....

What are your great ideas? I haven't heard anything constructive from you.

Here's a great idea-I'll find a goofy discussion board and smack all the retards who irratiate me around for pleasure. I know-not very constructive, but I'm in a mood.
-Hugs!

 

[John Pennekamp]

JMoney: It's called the ignore feature. Feel free to use it. Unless you get your jollies by telling people they are 'tards all the time. See ya.

 

[Jmoney]

Fun!

JMoney: It's called the ignore feature. Feel free to use it. Unless you get your jollies by telling people they are 'tards all the time. See ya.

Oh, I indeed do get my pleasures by telling people they are 'tards. I prefer to think of it as blunt honesty. You may notice there are few others here who qualify.

BTW-I didn't call you and Joe Merchant regular 'tards, but noted that you two are indeed "craptards." A subtle, yet important distinction of which you my both be proud!

-Congratulations!

 

[waterskier]

I can't believe that you guys hyjacked my thred.... 4 pages of pissin and moaning...
Oh and by the way, I still have not seen a new pain job on any ASA plane yet.... But the contract is close, and the co. is ready to get it done... Scott said it, so it must be true!!! And he also said that EFBs are here by the end of 2008... now there is something I can believe!

 

[jacksjj]

I just painted my car in the new Delta colors, man its sweet....

Hahahaha! Thats frickin' hilarious.

Okay, now back to the useless banter...