SWA Won't Share Its Pain With Workers

[General Lee]

No wonder you work for a broke-a$$ company. I have no business degree, but I dont believe any size profit=max pay. How did that end up working for DAL, UAL, and AAA??? Not to well, huh sport? Our company has consistantly paid us what they could affort to pay. Size of profit goes up = size of paycheck goes up. I recommend you read "NUTS" on your next run to BFE. Might learn ya somethin'.

Broke-a$$ company? We are worth almost what you are, and probably have more cash on hand ($4 billion). We have orders for new planes and may make a $20 billion order for 787s. Our debt is at a respectable level (around $7 billion) for our size. Your arguments just aren't supported by your claims. You need to work on that, sport. It is obvious you don't have a business degree, and if you think "BFE" equals large cosmopolitan cities like London, Paris, Rome, and beautiful Island cities like St Thomas, then you really need to get out more, and stay away from Intra Texas flying. Really, Texas is NOT a country. You sounds "NUTS."

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Wonder why Ch. 11 happened?

Well, they fly BOS--LAX, which is close to 6 hours. I am talking about the pilots, not the planes. Our 738s fly more per day than your 737-700s, because our 738s do allnighters too. Our 738 pilots may not do 5 stops across the country like your 737-700 and 737-300 pilots do (multiple legs with 25 min turns equals regional flying), but they get almost the same amount of time flying per day. Your statement there has no forethought and can't be backed up, like usual.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

btw, those "flaws" you mention are from your point of view. some might say that 1 fleet type is a good thing. like not having to go back to training all the time. multiple legs might be a good thing also. like being able to have 3 day trips that pay 24 and having 19 days off a month. The only thing about you that bothers me, a little bit, is how happy you seem to be that your airline is NOW doing better after sheading its debt on the backs of employees and creditors.

You are right, some people may like that hectic schedule, for a few years, when they are younger. I don't think many like up to 5 legs a day (not always, but most of those high time trips in 3 days have to have multiple legs---you can't avoid that) and won't like that as they grow older. Most of our senior guys like the one leg a day, lazy flight to Europe where they can get a beer and relax over a good meal. Or maybe over to Hawaii or Anchorage so they can go fishing on DELTA's DIME. Sure, you can go do that on your own time, but I hope you enjoy the TSA and all of those hassles too. Make sure you bring your pilot uniform so your shampoo isn't taken.... Sounds great.

And, how am I supposed to feel about my company after BK? It is a process open to any business, yours included if you need it. Some companies come out of the process better than before, like CAL. This isn't Russia where things are more strict. If you want to move there and play by those rules, then go for it.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Whataburger]

Broke-a$$ company? We are worth almost what you are, and probably have more cash on hand ($4 billion). Just one detail you overlooked - we paid our bills the last 6 years. We have orders for new planes and may make a $20 billion order for 787s. Our debt is at a respectable level (around $7 billion) for our size. Your arguments just aren't supported by your claims. You need to work on that, sport. It is obvious you don't have a business degree, and if you think "BFE" equals large cosmopolitan cities like London, Paris, Rome, and beautiful Island cities like St Thomas, then you really need to get out more, and stay away from Intra Texas flying. Really, Texas is NOT a country. You sounds "NUTS." Hells, I sounds Nuts, shiiiiiit.

Bye Bye--General Lee

St Thomas, dont we own them?

 

[vixin]

Genital Lee overlooks the fact that they shed their debt, pensions and cut their employees pay checks through Bankruptcy. Remember that you idiot? I sure wish guys would stop quoting this moron without a clue. Then I wouldnt have a chance to read his dribble. He is sooooo proud that Delta declared BK. Way to go Delta. Heck who couldnt make money that way? Maybe they should have tried other avenues other then screwing the creditors and employees. ROTFLMAO

 

[General Lee]

St Thomas, dont we own them?

Great, we paid our bills 20 years before your airline started all the way up to 9-11. And your point is? And yes, St Thomas is a US Territory. It really is nice. Come jump on us sometime down there.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Genital Lee overlooks the fact that they shed their debt, pensions and cut their employees pay checks through Bankruptcy. Remember that you idiot? I sure wish guys would stop quoting this moron without a clue. Then I wouldnt have a chance to read his dribble. He is sooooo proud that Delta declared BK. Way to go Delta. Heck who couldnt make money that way? Maybe they should have tried other avenues other then screwing the creditors and employees. ROTFLMAO

I sure know that, dude. Yes, our pensions were taken, although we did get a better plan in our names, and we did get a $650 million note to cover some of the drop. Even the retired guys got some equity in the new company (an $880 million claim), and the rest of us also got a $2.1 billion claim as creditors ourselves (I got $300,000 before taxes, and after taxes I got my 401Ks filled for last year and this year ($44,000 each year) plus a load of cash, which made up for some of the pay cuts). Since my 401K was filled for this year already, I also get an additional 11% raise this year (9% for the DC fund that is full and 2% for the 401K match that is also full). So, on the pilot side most of the current guys got something and will get another chunk in the pension note coming up here, and the non-union employees also just got a 5% raise, which is better than nothing, and they didn't lose their pensions. Most of the creditors did fairly well too, with minimal losses compared to United's BK. Even the lawyers did well, with about $186 million in fees, which was a lot less than United's lawyers got.

Any other questions, idiot?


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Quimby]

so what'd you do for your 9000 post party?

 

[General Lee]

Darn, I was so busy debating the corndog mafia, I forgot! Thanks!

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[momalley81]

Broke-a$$ company? We are worth almost what you are

Uhhhhh, WRONG!

LUV Market CAP = 12 Billion

DAL Market CAP = 4 Billion

Dude, get your facts straight. The more you post shows how completely ignorant you are to basic economics.

 

[Whataburger]

Uhhhhh, WRONG!

LUV Market CAP = 12 Billion

DAL Market CAP = 4 Billion

Dude, get your facts straight. The more you post shows how completely ignorant you are to basic economics.

On a very large scale 12 is close to 4. But, if you talking about a girlfriends ex-lovers, runs in a baseball game, or BILLIONS of dollars that a company is worth - It's not even close.:uzi:

 

[canyonblue]

We are all in this together for the love of Jesus!

Except General Lee. We have a pool and a pond, the pond would be good for him.

 

[canyonblue]

That was hysterical. I guess you didn't even care to read that I used to fly 747s (for Tower, now gone), and now I fly a Lear 45 for a very rich man in Boca Raton.

And you post on the Majors board because..........?

 

[The Victors]

I sure know that, dude. Yes, our pensions were taken, although we did get a better plan in our names, and we did get a $650 million note to cover some of the drop. Even the retired guys got some equity in the new company (an $880 million claim), and the rest of us also got a $2.1 billion claim as creditors ourselves (I got $300,000 before taxes, and after taxes I got my 401Ks filled for last year and this year ($44,000 each year) plus a load of cash, which made up for some of the pay cuts). Since my 401K was filled for this year already, I also get an additional 11% raise this year (9% for the DC fund that is full and 2% for the 401K match that is also full). So, on the pilot side most of the current guys got something and will get another chunk in the pension note coming up here, and the non-union employees also just got a 5% raise, which is better than nothing, and they didn't lose their pensions. Most of the creditors did fairly well too, with minimal losses compared to United's BK. Even the lawyers did well, with about $186 million in fees, which was a lot less than United's lawyers got.

Any other questions, idiot?


Bye Bye--General Lee

yes. good for you, but that cash was stolen from the people that delta OWED a debt too. Delta had contracts that they didn't want to pay anymore, so the they declaired BK and did what they wanted. That's not good business, it's criminal, in my book.

 

[General Lee]

Uhhhhh, WRONG!

LUV Market CAP = 12 Billion

DAL Market CAP = 4 Billion

Dude, get your facts straight. The more you post shows how completely ignorant you are to basic economics.

Are you sure about that? We also have $4 billion in cash on hand, plus our market cap after we re-entered the market was about $7-8 billion, and our stock is about the same or slightly higher. I think you are wrong. Prove it.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[GuppyWN]

Fuzzy math. The top 767/757/737/MD captain makes $158/$158/$151/$140 an hour. What seniority must one be to bid captain in a 777/767-400 to get $188 an hour? The junior captain at SWA is about 6 years 3 months. That rate is $187 an hour. 12 year pay is $198 an hour.

Not that flying to Paris doesn't sound great but flying to LBB pays very well and pays off much quicker than flying for Delta.

To each his own.
Gup

 

[General Lee]

yes. good for you, but that cash was stolen from the people that delta OWED a debt too. Delta had contracts that they didn't want to pay anymore, so the they declaired BK and did what they wanted. That's not good business, it's criminal, in my book.

Wow, I think we should vote for you for DICTATOR. You sound really nice..... Anyway, BK is a process anyone can do, thanks to the AMERICAN DREAM. Any company. Even Southwest could use it if they get into dire straits. Creditors know what they are getting into when it comes to Airlines. Was anyone really blind sided by this? Did it happen overnight? Nope. A lot of the leases we changed were absolutely ridiculous---an MD88 monthly lease was $280,000 a month (even though only one other US airline used MD88s (Midwest) and they only had a couple). We changed them to a MORE REALISTIC $80,000 a month. That is the way it goes. Adios Stallin.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[GuppyWN]

Delta Air Lines Inc.

(DAL:NYSE)

LAST $20.65 USD
CHANGE TODAY -0.68 -3.19%
VOLUME 2.4M
DAL On Other Exchanges



As of 4:01 PM 07/10/07 All times are local (Market data by Reuters is delayed by at least 20 minutes).


SnapshotNewsChartsFinancialsEarningsPeopleOwnershipTransactionsOptions

OPEN
$21.18
PREVIOUS CLOSE
$21.33
DAY HIGH
$21.25
DAY LOW
$20.53
52 WEEK HIGH
04/26/07 - $23.25
52 WEEK LOW
06/12/07 - $18.02
MARKET CAP
4.1B
AVERAGE VOLUME 3 mo
2.3M
DILUTED EPS TTM
--
SHARES OUTSTANDING
197.3M

DAL Does Not Pay Dividends​

P/E TTM
NM

 

[General Lee]

Fuzzy math. The top 767/757/737/MD captain makes $158/$158/$151/$140 an hour. What seniority must one be to bid captain in a 777/767-400 to get $188 an hour? The junior captain at SWA is about 6 years 3 months. That rate is $187 an hour. 12 year pay is $198 an hour.

Not that flying to Paris doesn't sound great but flying to LBB pays very well and pays off much quicker than flying for Delta.

To each his own.
Gup

Please remember that had we not gone to BK, our 777 Captains would still be making $315 an hour, which was the rate we created. I don't remember crashing any planes, so I would place the blame primarily on our past management.

To get on the 777, a Captain has to be really senior. We currently only have 8 of them, but we are scheduled to get 6-8 more in the next couple years. Apparently we are looking for more if they become available on the open market. Also, those pay rates for Captain can be raised $5 an hour because there is an INTL override for INTL trips, and a measely $3 an hour for FOs. We get a minimum 1.5% raise each year for the next couple years, plus up to 6% each year if we are profitable pre-tax. We also are currently getting an 11% raise due to the fact that our 401Ks were all filled for last year and this year, and the company pays us 9% for our DC fund, and 2% matching on our 401K, and since they are full they give us cash. So, if our 777 Captains make $180 an hour, and get $5 an hour extra for the INTL override, and then get the 11% raise ($19 more an hour), that would be over $200 an hour---a far cry from our $315 an hour heyday. Those guys also got a huge chunk from the BK claim (probably $400,000 each pre-tax, which after the 401Ks were filled probably got $150,000 in cash after tax). If you want to add that onto their current salary, you can.
The USAir pilots got a $4400 bonus this year after they emerged from BK, and our senior Captains got $400,000. Our bottom furlough who was furloughed after 9-11 also got $200,000 pre tax, and he was gone for 6 years.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Delta Air Lines Inc.

(DAL:NYSE)

LAST $20.65 USD
CHANGE TODAY -0.68 -3.19%
VOLUME 2.4M
DAL On Other Exchanges



As of 4:01 PM 07/10/07 All times are local (Market data by Reuters is delayed by at least 20 minutes).


SnapshotNewsChartsFinancialsEarningsPeopleOwnershipTransactionsOptions

OPEN
$21.18
PREVIOUS CLOSE
$21.33
DAY HIGH
$21.25
DAY LOW
$20.53
52 WEEK HIGH
04/26/07 - $23.25
52 WEEK LOW
06/12/07 - $18.02
MARKET CAP
4.1B
AVERAGE VOLUME 3 mo
2.3M
DILUTED EPS TTM
--
SHARES OUTSTANDING
197.3M

DAL Does Not Pay Dividends​

P/E TTM
NM

I guess that proves it, even though our market cap is now greater than CALs at $3.6 Billion. All that proves is that Southwest has some room to spare, and it doesn't even show what cash Delta has on hand, which is over $4 billion. Good for you proving your point-----I appreciate it.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[GuppyWN]

General. I mean it when I say I hope you guys get that $315 an hour back. It just makes the rest of us look better during contract time. It ebbs and flows brother. Right now we're at high tide. Tomorrow it could be you.

Gup

 

[momalley81]

I guess that proves it, even though our market cap is now greater than CALs at $3.6 Billion. All that proves is that Southwest has some room to spare, and it doesn't even show what cash Delta has on hand, which is over $4 billion. Good for you proving your point-----I appreciate it.


Bye Bye--General Lee

He beat me to proving it, however I will say this.

For someone who likes to lecture the masses about how great Delta is doing financially I find it quite ironic that you can't/don't even know the basics when it comes to looking up a public company's valuation. It took me all of 1 minute to go to Yahoo Finance and get that info.

 

[CA Calypso]

See, you fail to recognize what really went on here. Have you guys EVER had a non profitable quarter? No. So why weren't you paid $200 an hour 10 years ago? You have always done well. Same with the Fedex guys. You have no answer for this. Was it because all of your senior pilots got stock options and allowed a 10 year contract because they all got rich? Oh yeah, that happened too. Southwest went for the higher pay rates because we went there after United, period. You can make up whatever you want, but that doesn't make it true. I call you Dad because you think you are because you are already a Captain, and most Dads, as we all know, are clueless. Are you younger than I am? 41? If you are, good for you sport. And, SWAPA can't jack up just one corner because all you have are 737s. ALPA can't always get the same rates for every plane at Legacies because not all planes carry the same amount of people or make as much revenue. And sorry to tell you this, but if for some reason you unfortunately have to go through BK (which I would never wish on anyone really), then SWAPA wouldn't be able do to much either. When a BK judge is looking out for the creditors and not the employees, you just don't have much choice. Sad but true.

Sweet dreams sport!


Bye Bye--General Lee

General,

"Jacking up the house one corner at a time" has nothing to do with rates on types of airplanes within the same company. It refers to the pattern bargaining ALPA has used between carriers for years. I would expect you to know this rather basic premise of ariline history.

You are correct that SWAPA doesn't engage in this. After all, what SWA can afford has absolutely nothing to do with what Delta can afford. Along those same lines, why did United's pay rates mean Delta could afford the same rates plus a few percent? That worked out well for you guys. I hope you get back that $300+/hr. - it will take the big red X off of our backs.


You call me dad not because you think that I make stuff up but because I present unemotional arguments that you can not factually refute. You become defensive and emotional, hence the derogatory "sport" and "chief" names. I haven't called you names or made up playful versions of General Lee as others have on this board.

And I'm sorry that your dad was clueless - it may explain a lot...

 

[General Lee]

He beat me to proving it, however I will say this.

For someone who likes to lecture the masses about how great Delta is doing financially I find it quite ironic that you can't/don't even know the basics when it comes to looking up a public company's valuation. It took me all of 1 minute to go to Yahoo Finance and get that info.

Well that is all fine and dandy. I find it funny that most of you deny that you fly tons of legs per trip that would make any mere mortal totally exhausted, and that you might actually have to layover in a hole like AMA, LBB, and MAF. Well, not everything is bad over there, at least you have Harlingen.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

General,

"Jacking up the house one corner at a time" has nothing to do with rates on types of airplanes within the same company. It refers to the pattern bargaining ALPA has used between carriers for years. I would expect you to know this rather basic premise of ariline history.

You are correct that SWAPA doesn't engage in this. After all, what SWA can afford has absolutely nothing to do with what Delta can afford. Along those same lines, why did United's pay rates mean Delta could afford the same rates plus a few percent? That worked out well for you guys. I hope you get back that $300+/hr. - it will take the big red X off of our backs.


You call me dad not because you think that I make stuff up but because I present unemotional arguments that you can not factually refute. You become defensive and emotional, hence the derogatory "sport" and "chief" names. I haven't called you names or made up playful versions of General Lee as others have on this board.

And I'm sorry that your dad was clueless - it may explain a lot...

Well, if you read my initial post to you again you would see that I wrote "most" dads are clueless, not mine included. (of course)

Anyway, you and I know that your pilots salivated when they saw our 737 pay rates, and you actually did use them when negotiating your own rates. We all know that happened, because that would have been STUPID had you not done that. That isn't emotional, that is common sense. Had United not "gone there", and then Delta not followed, you would have lower rates right now. To say otherwise is just plain wrong. You can't fool us, but you can thank us. We hope you keep your rates high so we can aim high next time.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[GuppyWN]

Had United not "gone there", and then Delta not followed, you would have lower rates right now.

Bye Bye--General Lee

Ok. Now I'm confused. Should I be kissing UAL pilots asses or Delta pilots asses for my payrate?

Gup

 

[Skyboy722]

I am pointing out one or two flaws that potential newhires should think about, multiple leg days for the rest of your career, and one fleet type.


Bye Bye--General Lee

General,

I am so glad that you are here to save all the innocent victims who may have been hired by Southwest and have never known that they would only fly multiple domestic legs a day on a 737.

Gimme a break.

 

[Skybus]

Would you please define "Some" for us. I know of exactly 1 Captain that left and later came looking for his job back. Oh ya another left for Western Pacific, so guess where he might be now. There are idiots everywhere as you have shown us.

 

[SWA/FO]

any mere mortal totally exhausted

General Leigh,

I'm so happy that the Delta Bankruptcy was such a good thing for you. Glad it all worked out.

Anybody with half a brain should want some of that. I encourage anyone looking for aviation employment to run, don't walk to Delta. I mean they have it all, they are the complete package. Plus, cool new logo and paint job - this is a major factor when picking an employer.

Maybe all of us here can pitch in and get you some "bling" to wear, like a necklace...... with a big 'ol CH.11 in diamonds hangin from it. That would go great with your black double breasted coat and that stick up your a$$ look.

that all I have for now imp: the SWA/FO

 

[roughneck]

you might actually have to layover in a hole like AMA, LBB, and MAF

I usually ignore the General, but you have proven yourself a real moron today.

Hands down, West Texas has some of the best looking ladies in the country and the Odessa Elegante' is one of the nicest hotels around. BTW, how is your Holiday Inn Express treating you?