SWA Won't Share Its Pain With Workers

[puddlejumper101]

So, you think SLC, CVG, and LAX won't be bases in the future? My friends at Delta would disagree with you. Also, there are plenty of transcons that do not go through Atlanta, and my friends say they enjoy the downtown NY layovers. I think your NY layovers consist or Ronkonkama near Islip. That really isn't the "real" NY probably. If you haven't been to Manhattan, then you may have a "skewed" view of New York if you only see Islip. And the chance to see Pisa, Italy or Rio on Delta's dime must be great, which is something Southwest pilots cannot say. You seem to have left out about half of Delta's flying, which is a lot more exotic than Islip or Boise.

I wasn't talking about the overnights in ATL...or JFK...I was referring to the operation. 90% of DAL's operation goes through ATL or JFK...so...you deal with those two monster inefficiencies at least once per trip (and I am being very generous when I say that)...for the rest of forever...that get's just as old as overnights in LBB...the grass isn't always greener on the other side.

 

[RollinOnMy22sYo]

Personally, I'd rather fly a C172 into East Bumblebee North Dakota for SouthWest, than a 777 to Paris for any of the legacy carriers.

 

[RCA]

Sorry about your dad. The sad thing is that what SWA does is something that should be standard....instead, it's looked at as above and beyond and it shouldn't be this way.

I really hope that SWA stays this way. Other companies should follow their philosophies. I am sure there are a few (very few) other companies (not airlines of course) that treat their employees this well. Does anyone know of any?

The culture at CitationShares is much like what I'm reaading here. We had a guy on tour find out his wife just went into labor. The company without hesitation created a long unneeded position leg to the pilots hometown. Like someone said earlier "you can't negotiate that"

 

[Heavy Set]

I wasn't talking about the overnights in ATL...or JFK...I was referring to the operation. 90% of DAL's operation goes through ATL or JFK...so...you deal with those two monster inefficiencies at least once per trip (and I am being very generous when I say that)...for the rest of forever...that get's just as old as overnights in LBB...the grass isn't always greener on the other side.

ATL is in the middle of a large drought right now, so T-storms and weather delays probably haven't really been a problem (a chronic problem anyway), but I bet JFK has had it's share. ATL right now is a great place to have a hub, a new runway is in use, fairly clear weather, etc. It has been fairly smooth sailing the last few times I have had to fly in there enroute to my Lear.

 

[Heavy Set]

remember that most people that were in the military probably have already been there and done that with regards to international ops. If I never left this country again, I would be happy. How many of you actually go out an roam the areas outside your hotel? I for one do not. A city is a city, unless they have some cool bars next to it or something. As for flying a big aircraft...I for one could care less...as do many people I know and fly with. I like driving to work and driving home and being near the beach....Not commuting and not having to worry if I will get screwed.

So you wouldn't like to fly with a third pilot (the rest seat has a movie and a 1st class meal waiting) over to Europe, take a nap at a 5 star hotel (for security reasons), and get up and drink beer watching cute foreigners after a great meal? You did that in the Air Force? Riiight. You wouldn't want to see Europe or South America (Buenos Aires and Rio are probably very nice, and Santiago has great wine supposedly) on someone elses dime (DL)? You wouldn't? You would rather see LBB and MAF? Really? I guess you don't ever want to fly to Hawaii either (like DL does), or the Carribbean or Mexico (Cancun or Puerto Vallarta)? Aruba anyone? You don't go out anywhere on any of your layovers? Really. I guess you don't want to do anything but Intra-texas flying, that would make you really happy. As happy as a pig in s$#@. Go get um Red Dog! You are making yourself look like a hick. Did you fly the C130 to Paris, London, Frankfurt, Rome, Athens, Rio, Lima, Vienna, Prague, Buenos Aires, or any of those places? No, I bet you flew it to Afghanistan and Iraq, places Delta probably won't fly to. Back when I flew at Tower Air on the 747 we had great long layovers in some exotic places, and we had fun. I am sure the Delta guys don't just do the "slam and click" like yourself. Boring.....Do you sit in your hotel room and count all of your money and stack pennies and say "someday I will have ONE BILLLLLLION pennies.....?" And I guess you don't care about flying big planes, and many of the people you know don't care either, because they are flying smaller mainline planes like yourself. I really miss that 747 I used to fly, it really was a kick.

 

[AA717driver]

Heavy--BTDT. Int'l. isn't the Holy Grail it used to be. I'd rather live the extra ten years that Int'l. steals from you.

And you're not SERIOUSLY infering that Delta crews have more fun on layovers than SWA crews? I can tell you, having partied with a few SWA crews, that is an absurd inference.

But, everyone's different. IMO, I have more fun on layovers when I'm not brain dead from fatigue.TC

 

[AV80R]

I had a health scare with my wife recently. My chief pilot told me to take all the time I needed to make sure she was OK. He said, and I quote, "All the company cares about right now is that you take care of your family and we will take care of you."

You don't negotiate that.

Gup

Very good point. Hope she's all right.

 

[AV80R]

If a pilot was told he only had to work 1 day a week and that day was Wednesday, he'd ask, "Every Wednesday?"


Why Wednesday? I hate Wednesdays...I say let's have a six-day week with no stinkin' Wednesdays!...

 

[Whataburger]

So you wouldn't like to fly with a third pilot (the rest seat has a movie and a 1st class meal waiting) over to Europe, take a nap at a 5 star hotel (for security reasons), and get up and drink beer watching cute foreigners after a great meal? You did that in the Air Force? Riiight. You wouldn't want to see Europe or South America (Buenos Aires and Rio are probably very nice, and Santiago has great wine supposedly) on someone elses dime (DL)? You wouldn't? You would rather see LBB and MAF? Really? I guess you don't ever want to fly to Hawaii either (like DL does), or the Carribbean or Mexico (Cancun or Puerto Vallarta)? Aruba anyone? You don't go out anywhere on any of your layovers? Really. I guess you don't want to do anything but Intra-texas flying, that would make you really happy. As happy as a pig in s$#@. Go get um Red Dog! You are making yourself look like a hick. Did you fly the C130 to Paris, London, Frankfurt, Rome, Athens, Rio, Lima, Vienna, Prague, Buenos Aires, or any of those places? No, I bet you flew it to Afghanistan and Iraq, places Delta probably won't fly to. Back when I flew at Tower Air on the 747 we had great long layovers in some exotic places, and we had fun. I am sure the Delta guys don't just do the "slam and click" like yourself. Boring.....Do you sit in your hotel room and count all of your money and stack pennies and say "someday I will have ONE BILLLLLLION pennies.....?" And I guess you don't care about flying big planes, and many of the people you know don't care either, because they are flying smaller mainline planes like yourself. I really miss that 747 I used to fly, it really was a kick.

To each their own. Good for ya if you liked that foreign stuff as a big bad whale pilot. Some like it, some don't. Why get on to someone if they dont agree with you? I did all the stuff you mentioned as a civilian before I hit 30 years old. It was neat-o. All those places are much more fun to visit with family vs. crew. Apparently you and the General like foreign stuff. I would much rather earn nice money flying 5 to ABQ and 6 back the next day vs. one leg to any non-U.S. funny-speaking country. The crews are happy, the attitudes are great, and the company treats us like royalty. I'd like to thank all yall international pilots for what you do, maby you will be allowed to code share for us some day!

 

[Bake]

Heavy Set, did you say watchin' the cute foreigners? No, we would rather get naked with the girls in LBB, MAF, and HRL. But don't worry not your daughter because she is probably heavy set too. Although we will let her get naked while we take pictures. You keep your overnights, we will keep ours. You keep looking and we will keep poking.

 

[Hardcorr]

Come on General. Remember me? The guy who left DAL for SWA. Boring Airplanes, lots of legs, who cares? At SWA when it's time to work it's time to work. Been at both places. We do in 15 days what it would take 18 days to do at DAL. It's all about productivity. How hard are you willing to work for an extra three days off a month. I'm away from home so I might as well be putting in a full day. Can you imagine a 7 hr block day completed in 9hrs followed by a 16hr layover. Who needs 30hrs in SDF? Think about it

 

[27 driver]

remember that most people that were in the military probably have already been there and done that with regards to international ops. If I never left this country again, I would be happy. How many of you actually go out an roam the areas outside your hotel? I for one do not. A city is a city, unless they have some cool bars next to it or something. As for flying a big aircraft...I for one could care less...as do many people I know and fly with. I like driving to work and driving home and being near the beach....Not commuting and not having to worry if I will get screwed.

I am with you Reddog. I fly international freight now and it is not all it is cracked up to be. Don't get me wrong, it is not all bad either. I am not lucky enough to work for one of the Legacies, but I would gladly give this up for a shot at Southwest. For me its about the QOL and Compensation. Right now I have neither. I do like flying the 747 but I could care less about the equipment. I have a few friends at LUV and all are happy. C-ya there soon I hope.

 

[bravodude]

The culture at CitationShares is much like what I'm reaading here. We had a guy on tour find out his wife just went into labor. The company without hesitation created a long unneeded position leg to the pilots hometown. Like someone said earlier "you can't negotiate that"

Oh i dont think so. the culture at CS is nothing like it is here. Yes they helped a guy out when his wife wen't into labor but how about all those pilots that gave two weeks notice and were let go on the spot. go back to the fractional board. we have a no fatigue policy here, no questions asked can you say that about CS. I don't think so. Go back to the fractional board were you belong.

 

[texman]

The culture at CitationShares is much like what I'm reaading here. We had a guy on tour find out his wife just went into labor. The company without hesitation created a long unneeded position leg to the pilots hometown. Like someone said earlier "you can't negotiate that"

My fellow CS brother I have been at CS for Three years. I believe and seen the same thing. Oh, by the way have you seen our little furry bear. I heard he was last seen at a strip club in PBI.

 

[texman]

Oh i dont think so. the culture at CS is nothing like it is here. Yes they helped a guy out when his wife wen't into labor but how about all those pilots that gave two weeks notice and were let go on the spot. go back to the fractional board. we have a no fatigue policy here, no questions asked can you say that about CS. I don't think so. Go back to the fractional board were you belong.

That is true! But it is a step up from a regional, charter. Yes there is much needed improvement over here. Over all SWA is a better job. I have to give credit to CS, they are still young but they do try.

 

[Bally]

Nobody could pay me enough money to want to layover in LBB. No way. Throw in AMA and MAF, and I would be constantly throwing up. (chunks) But, you do have great pay, nice stews, and a management that seems good (for now). Boring aircraft types and too many multiple leg flying days with 25 minute turns, along with LBB as a potential layover, makes me and others wonder... Regardless, other than those items, you guys have it made! Good for you guys!


Bye Bye--General Lee

I have worked at SWA for five years and have never had a LBB, AMA, or MAF overnight. This month I had two 21 hour RON's in San Diego on the bay and overnights in Boise, Spokane and Philadelphia.

 

[bravodude]

That is true! But it is a step up from a regional, charter. Yes there is much needed improvement over here. Over all SWA is a better job. I have to give credit to CS, they are still young but they do try.

I will agree with you, it is better then a regional or a charter job but it is night and day between CS and SWA. I know alot of great guys at CS but all of them have already left or are trying to leave.

 

[Heavy Set]

I have worked at SWA for five years and have never had a LBB, AMA, or MAF overnight. This month I had two 21 hour RON's in San Diego on the bay and overnights in Boise, Spokane and Philadelphia.

Are you saying nobody has to stay in LBB, AMA, or MAF? Somebody does, and that somebody may have to do it a lot if he/she is DAL or HOU based.

 

[Heavy Set]

Heavy Set, did you say watchin' the cute foreigners? No, we would rather get naked with the girls in LBB, MAF, and HRL. But don't worry not your daughter because she is probably heavy set too. Although we will let her get naked while we take pictures. You keep your overnights, we will keep ours. You keep looking and we will keep poking.

That was hysterical. I guess you didn't even care to read that I used to fly 747s (for Tower, now gone), and now I fly a Lear 45 for a very rich man in Boca Raton. I bet I now stay at nicer hotels than you do (on his dime, and I also manage the Lear so I pick and choose where we stay) and I get to go to nicer cities. (Aspen, Vail, St Lucia, etc) You don't seem to look at the fine print anywhere, and you seem very defensive since you took a swipe at my daughter, even though I don't have one. Typical cocky SW pilot. Shoot from the hip partner! (Dumb a%$)

 

[Heavy Set]

Come on General. Remember me? The guy who left DAL for SWA. Boring Airplanes, lots of legs, who cares? At SWA when it's time to work it's time to work. Been at both places. We do in 15 days what it would take 18 days to do at DAL. It's all about productivity. How hard are you willing to work for an extra three days off a month. I'm away from home so I might as well be putting in a full day. Can you imagine a 7 hr block day completed in 9hrs followed by a 16hr layover. Who needs 30hrs in SDF? Think about it

Your profile says you were on the MD88. Did you ever get to do any International flying for Delta? Ever flew the 767? You flew the worst plane at Delta. No wonder you left. My friends who fly the 76ER for DL say it is the best, with a "first class meal on the way over to happy hour." (not 30 hours in SDF) You must have jumped ship before you experienced anything other than the Mad dog.

 

[General Lee]

Come on General. Remember me? The guy who left DAL for SWA. Boring Airplanes, lots of legs, who cares? At SWA when it's time to work it's time to work. Been at both places. We do in 15 days what it would take 18 days to do at DAL. It's all about productivity. How hard are you willing to work for an extra three days off a month. I'm away from home so I might as well be putting in a full day. Can you imagine a 7 hr block day completed in 9hrs followed by a 16hr layover. Who needs 30hrs in SDF? Think about it

I think I remember you. Heavy set is right though, if you never experienced the INTL flying, then you can't compare it to Southwest or even the MD88 at Delta. You know that. Living in ATL while flying INTL cannot get any better, since the 30 and 7 rule does not apply. You can do a 3 day, go home for 24 hours, then do another 3 day, worth 40 hours in 6 days. You can fly 9 days in a row on INTL and get all of your trips done and then have the next 21 days off if you want. That is what you call productive. And, I flew Dorniers and Brasilias at Midway Connect and I flew 6 legs a day or more. I don't want to do that again. And we only have one or two mainline flights to SDF anyway now, so the odds of getting that is a lot lower than a SWA guy getting LBB, MAF, or AMA.

But, if you are happy at SWA, good for you. You guys just have to understand that not everyone wants your type of flying, even though the stews are cool and the current pay is great. Delta has domestic flying too, but also other options that SWA does not have, like flying turns, flying INTL, flying to Hawaii, etc. If you get bored at one, you can switch to another. The wages were taken from us, but a lot of that will come back with time, just like your pay will supposedly never go down(?). I think a lot of people left Delta during the bleak time in the last couple years, and will wish someday that they had not. I hope you are happy and will remain happy with your situation forever.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

That was hysterical. I guess you didn't even care to read that I used to fly 747s (for Tower, now gone), and now I fly a Lear 45 for a very rich man in Boca Raton. I bet I now stay at nicer hotels than you do (on his dime, and I also manage the Lear so I pick and choose where we stay) and I get to go to nicer cities. (Aspen, Vail, St Lucia, etc) You don't seem to look at the fine print anywhere, and you seem very defensive since you took a swipe at my daughter, even though I don't have one. Typical cocky SW pilot. Shoot from the hip partner! (Dumb a%$)

Don't worry Heavy, that Bake guy honestly sounds baked. He resorts to personal jabs because he can't argue with you. A lot of people on FI do that.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Chest Rockwell]

He resorts to personal jabs because he can't argue with you. A lot of people on FI do that.

Bye Bye--General Lee

The pot calling the kettle black.

 

[328dude]

Papers and ice, papers and ice..... when does it stop?

 

[Heavy Set]

The pot calling the kettle black.

It seems like the General gives reasons why he and probably others would not want to fly for Southwest, and you guys can't believe it. To you, you are gods in your own religion and you want everyone to follow you. Not everyone wants to fly for Southwest, and people on this board may agree with him. I don't believe I have ever seen the General attack someone without being attacked first. If you think someone not liking your style of flying is attacking you, then you need to toughen up a bit. And did you see Bake's response to my posts? That is a typical Southwest cocky response, but you don't address that here do you? What a crock.

 

[Big Time]

Heavy,

Dude, you should inquire about anger mgmt classes. We're all so sorry you lost your "worldy" 747 job. I think most of us would rather be at home with our families than romancing the fine wine list in Europe and South America. Oh and, obviously you never got any pu#$y in Lubbock did you? You go ahead and run over to Europe. I hear the women are cheap in Amsterdam

 

[Tejas-Jet]

The wages were taken from us, but a lot of that will come back with time,

No doubt it will. How do I know? Because CApt John Prater, President of Mother ALPA, has all of ALPA is "Taking it Back".

General...you "taking it back" yet? What have you got "back" so far?

 

[Falcon Jet 1]

I have had more fun in MAF,LBB and AMA than any other city we go to . It is not where you are, but who your with! Dont forget Texas girls are not bad on the eyes either.
And I have done the corporate world for some very great people, but I was on their schedule not mine. The only thing I miss is the company credit card.

 

[atafan]

Y A W N....

 

[Jeepman]

I don't care about the domestic vs. international, I fly a 767, 777....I just don't wanna have to fly with an arrogant $#@!$ like the general lee!

Q.O.L. Period!