Jepp's vs.NOS charts

[pilothouston123]

We are a small aircraft management/135 operator. We have a few Gulfstreams and mid size jets. Our New chief wants us to switch from jepps to Nos charts.

Most guys hate this idea. Management says its a cost issue. I believe its because of the difficulty keeping up with updates.

I am looking for feedback on the pros and con's to making this switch and some suggestions on how to keep up with the updates.

 

[ultrarunner]

Normally it's the guys flying around in 172's that make the switch because of cost. Never heard of this happening with a gulfstream operator. Wow!

But, since you asked, the pros of Jepps are that we've used 'em for years and are familiar with their terminology. Cons, you gotta update 'em, be it a standard svc or Q service.

NOS you just get a new book.

Now, if it's an update issue vs. a cost issue, go with EFB's. While you have the initial cost of the EFB, the jepp view subscriptions are actually significantly less than the Q service subscriptions and you just load a new DVD at update time.

For what you're operating that's the way to go.

 

[ttflyer]

Safety?

I think the safety issue should come up. I know military pilots only use NOS and are prefectly safe, but for most civilan pilots, it would take some getting used to. During that transistion time, details could be missed. Also, I think jepp has a more complete product. For example, it is my understanding that NOS does not have the Dalton departure at TEB. Does NOS even have terrain on their approach plates (I really don't know)?

If it is really a money issue, than I would try and find another Gulfstream operator to work for who understands what it costs to fly these airplanes. If it is just somebody comming in (maybe from military background?) who likes NOS and is trying to dictate what everybody has to use, well that sucks...

 

[sleepy]

Updates are not really a problem with Q Service on Jepps. Jepps cost a lot more than NOS, but to me are worth the money. I once worked at a place where the new CP did the same thing. I think these new guys just like to make some changes to show everyone that they are in charge, even if the changes don't make much sense.

 

[svcta]

I've used Jepps and NOS with different operators. My main beef with the NOS is that you have to keep up with all of those books. And it's hard to find all of them in loose format with holes punched in the top of them for a binder that allows you to actually handle the chart, which to me is essential. If you're to strike out on a trip and there's even the slightest possibility that you'll make an unexpected stop you'll likely have to carry an entire flight bag full of those stupid books. One or two large Jepp binders are just easier to manage, I think. Of course, EFBs eliminate most of that, even. We just print whatever charts we know we'll need and allow the EFB to give us anything that pops up. And if you're going to have international charts, well then NOS simply isn't going to cut it. So now you're stuck with having some of each, which is just mickey mouse.

Regardless, Jepp just beats the pants off of NOS as far as presentation and
ease of use(excepting the revisions). It's a simple matter of private industry doing things better and more efficiently than the Gub'ment.


Besides, ask whomever is running the show there how much a full jepp subscription costs in terms of percentage of the annual operating budget. Then laugh.

 

[Hawker800]

As cheap as the airlines have become, they still issue and use Jepps. Hmmm.

 

[Galaxy]

Keep up with updates? Go electronic...I just download them when it is needed.. quick safe and easy...for the 135-just print the charts out or get a EFB approved..

I also have the electronic NOS charts and plan on letting that subscription run out as I never use them. As things are all over the place.. like all the DP or arrivals (forget which one)are in the front but the airports are in alphabetical order and the arrivals show the map on one page but have the textual on another..confusing to go back and forth..

Just never heard of a jet operator calling quality charts too expensive.
Tell them that using the airlines is cheaper than a corp jet.
Bring a loaf of bread and Peanut Butter & Jelly instead of catering.
It just doesn't sound like cost savings to me.....

 

[ABXbooger]

Couldn't agree more with the above posts. Jepps are by far the best product out there. period. can't put a cost to safety.

 

[ultrarunner]

As cheap as the airlines have become, they still issue and use Jepps. Hmmm.

Airlines HAVE to use Jeppesen (with an exception or two) The gov't (NOS) won't print airline jepp charts. They differ than the "consumer" version of Jepps.

 

[dhc8fo]

Airlines HAVE to use Jeppesen (with an exception or two) The gov't (NOS) won't print airline jepp charts. They differ than the "consumer" version of Jepps.

how do you figure? I know they get to chose the airports, but the charts are the same after that.

 

[GVFlyer]

Electronic Flight Bags are the way to go, but other than that I don't think it makes much difference if you use NOS or Jeppesen plates.

At Gulfstream most of the guys in Flight Test use the NACO (NOS) charts and bound Terminal Procedures domestically and most of the demo guys use Jeppesen plates if they're going paper.

I think both are equally "safe".


GV

 

[snow-back]

how do you figure? I know they get to chose the airports, but the charts are the same after that.

Not entirely true. At Delta, we had lots of different Jepps pages and charts that were tailored specifically for Delta. That being said, I think NOS charts suck.

 

[ultrarunner]

how do you figure? I know they get to chose the airports, but the charts are the same after that.

In many cases the charts are not the same. Some pages are airline specific, such as special charted procedures, and some other special pages. I'd have to go back and look at some, but I think also remember special charts for gate areas, ect...

In any event, stuff you can't on govt plates.

 

[svcta]

The airline charts will have ops-specific things on them in some cases. Coordinates at certain gates for initializing nav. systems, as an example. Not in every case, but in some cases jepp charts can be airline specific.

 

[Raskal]

Ugh. We switched to NOS about a year and a half ago...the transition was very difficult. Now that we're used to them it isn't really a problem.

Pros:
-Updates are very easy/fast
-They ALL get replaced every cycle so, unlike Jepps, the frequently used charts don't get torn up beyond recognition and you don't have to order individual replacements.
-Some idiot can't screw up the order in the book during an update thereby potentially f'ing the thing up for multiple cycles.

Cons:
-They suck (format, visibilty in lower light, durability and so on)
-The amount of binders is ridiculous...they're scattered all over the flight decks on most of our aircraft because they can't fit in one place. Finding a book mid-flight is a pathetic exercise.
-Arrivals seperate from plates...incomplete procs (Dalton)
-Enroute chart format awful
-Inconvenient to use (I've gotten to the point of just leaving the plates in the binder and opening it to what we need rather than pull them all)

EFB would solve all these problems, but where I work the likelihood of that is equivalent to Paris Hilton and Lindsay Lohan joining a convent together.

 

[pilothouston123]

Bump and thanks everyone

 

[acat]

we currently use jepps but are switching to electronic bags. I believe we are looking into the efly book. I think that they only come with nos. Which bags come with jepp charts and how does everyone like them. I have heard a lot of good things about efly book but don't want to go nos.

 

[Galaxy]

After making my previous statement I decided to try to use just NOS on the EFB for a few flights. A few differnces that I liked was the NOS you can use the stylus to pull the chart around like you could on the old Jepp 2 program. Also the NOS has a cool ying/yang symbol that makes night time viewing easier than the JEPP. However due to years and years of Jepp and a year of the new Jepp3 program I am so used to them that I still went back just to review what I have already seen on NOS.

 

[shiznitobam]

I've never had a problem with the NOS plates, althougth I've never flown with Jepps. I did have a familiarization class about Jepps though. Same information, just in different spots for the most part.

 

[hiflyer731]

www.flightdeck.aero