ALPA votes 18 to 1 to throw out AAA/AWA award!

[PositiveRate]

Without a mutual desire to fight for a better contract, we are all doomed to fail.

The reality is that this is the wrong fight for all of us. The award is binding and won't be thrown out. And while we haggle to no avail for what will surely be months, the chance for a joint contract will quickly pass us by.

If we were all fighting like heck together, within a year we'd likely have a contract with top line narrowbody pay around 170-180 for CA and 110-120 for FO's as well as 13-15% B plan, better workrules, etc. This would be a modest, but welcome improvement for the West and a huge jump forward for the East.

So, what do we want more? Money and power together or should we continue to offer our services on the cheap to management and make it as easy as possible for them to whipsaw us to their benefit for DECADES to come? The later is the road many seem scarily happy to be on at the moment.

 

[eaglefly]

Why not just keep the airlines seperate.

Let the east guys fly their routes with their planes and the west to do the same. Since U had no money to buy planes, any new aircraft should go to the west guys to fly routes not flown by east guys. As the old geezers of east retire or "fly west", than junior east guys can move into those seats.

Better yet, since U was a rotted carcass when that drunk Parker gave it CPR on a dusty desert trail, sell it (or just the assets) and let someone else deal with it.

Parker wouldn't be in this mess if he didn't have a snootful...............

 

[vtwin]

Liar. The proof has been presented.

I imagine you would be feeling much better if they told AAA to pound sand 14-1 though, huh? But they didn't did they? Hmmm, maybe they saw some merit in our opposition to your windfall? 14-1, interesting times.

 

[Hpilot]

I am so disappointed with ALPA. WTF First they give up on age 65 then they do this? We had a legal process. It was followed and now because some old guys want to cry to their buddies they want to change the rules after the fact?

Us younger guys need to get more involved in the union.

Don't be bothered by it. ALPA is just stringing along the East in hopes they'll pull their heads out of their @sses. All they said is "gee we'll look at this really good in June". Hasn't changed the fact they can't do anything. Poor ALPAs stuck between a rock and a hard place. If they obey the laws the East will try and make them pay. If they try and do anything then the West owns ALPA.

 

[vtwin]

Don't be bothered by it. ALPA is just stringing along the East in hopes they'll pull their heads out of their @sses. All they said is "gee we'll look at this really good in June". Hasn't changed the fact they can't do anything. Poor ALPAs stuck between a rock and a hard place. If they obey the laws the East will try and make them pay. If they try and do anything then the West owns ALPA.

And your point is what?

By the way Hpilot, AAA furloughed can and will be participating in the decertification vote if National is just trying to stroke us in answer to your earlier inquiry as to what us inactive pilots can do. Think that might mess up your plans a bit?

 

[Wiskey Driver]

And your point is what?

By the way Hpilot, AAA furloughed can and will be participating in the decertification vote if National is just trying to stroke us in answer to your earlier inquiry as to what us inactive pilots can do, think that might mess up
your plans a bit?

Ahh no it won't!!

You see, I am in favor of the EC interfering with this award that way when the 1900 DFR law suits are filed and ALPA goes bankrupt that will mark the end of corrupt unions. Every pilot for themselves just like sports figures. We can negotiate our own salaries and benefit packages. Prater's days are marked so start counting.

WD.

 

[vtwin]

Ahh no it won't!!

You see, I am in favor of the EC interfering with this award that way when the 1900 DFR law suits are filed and ALPA goes bankrupt that will mark the end of corrupt unions. Every pilot for themselves just like sports figures. We can negotiate our own salaries and benefit packages. Prater's days are marked so start counting.

WD.

Maybe you will prevail in your DFR suit if you get a judge like your favorite arbitrator to preside over it. Otherwise good luck, most outsiders recognize this lopsided award for what it is, a bank robbery.

 

[Hpilot]

Ahh no it won't!!

You see, I am in favor of the EC interfering with this award that way when the 1900 DFR law suits are filed and ALPA goes bankrupt that will mark the end of corrupt unions. Every pilot for themselves just like sports figures. We can negotiate our own salaries and benefit packages. Prater's days are marked so start counting.

WD.

Boy it really is a win-win situation for us isn't it. Hard to believe the East could have had a win-win situation if they'd just tried to play fair. Oh well, no chance of that.

 

[vtwin]

.


Little Doosh.........

It was not to throw out the award - don't get all ramped up about coming back above any active pilots.


.

What was it then? 14-1 telling AAA to get lost? Don't buy that captains house yet.

 

[Wiskey Driver]

Your right, this is not good for ALPA either and that is good.

Maybe you will prevail in your DFR suit if you get your favorite arbitrator to preside over it.

Ok but why would and arbitrator preside over a lawsuit?? No my uninformed friend this one will play out in the federal district court system. BTW AWA had no favorites as we have never been to this type of arb. The east chose Nicalou as they had a PRIOR working relationship with the man. They chose their neutral because they had a PRIOR working relationship with the man.

I'm hungry for the lawsuit, I would much rather watch the destruction of a corrupt union. T minus 10 on John Prater!!!!!

WD.

 

[vtwin]

Boy it really is a win-win situation for us isn't it. Hard to believe the East could have had a win-win situation if they'd just tried to play fair. Oh well, no chance of that.

The AWA delusion continues. Play fair? You stole our retirements from us, Nicolau should have utilized conditions and restrictions to prevent that from happening.

14-1(awa) saw a reason to look further into this award, I guess they are not playing fair.

 

[MK82Man]

Excellent Post Positive Rate. Here is the meat of the Resolution passed:

THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED that the President continue to
employ all the resources of the Association to assist the MECs in
achieving these goals, and

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that further consideration of this
agenda item is deferred to a special meeting of the Executive Council to
be called by the President to be held in June 2007

I read spin, delay, stall, get in the muddy middle, grey zone. ALPA is working so hard to listen to the cares and concerns of the East dudes -- get real. HQ ain't doing jack. They don't want to touch this thing at all. "We'll assist the MECs" to do what?? Nothing -- for how long 6-9 months. "we'll deferr to June for review" ok, yeah. Zip Zero NADA. I bet you get some sort of "after very careful review" ... nothing changes. Time heals it all. Any PR firm would say stall. There isn't one West guy who would vote to compromise anything -- we'll go our own way first. We negotiated for 18 months. All over.

Here is a read ahead. At some point Parker gets tired of waiting. He needs a list to get the company moving forward. He'll hire to the West -- we need crews. Not a new dude on property since the merger and the summer schedule is in jepordy if we don't absorb on the bottom soon. He will recall your East pilots to the West certificate and if they don't accept, he'll hire off the street to it. He will move new metal to the West, or sell off more 737s on the East side and then furlough/stop recalling East pilots if he has too much on that side of the house. The East is playing with absolute fire on thier side of the street. Parker is a West man and already has the US Airways certificate. Expect the West guys to open Section 6 and work on our own contract if the East doesn't want a new contract. Re-read Positive Rate's post. That is the real issue. All this "award injustice" is wasted breath.

 

[vtwin]

Ok but why would and arbitrator preside over a lawsuit?? No my uninformed friend this one will play out in the federal district court system. BTW AWA had no favorites as we have never been to this type of arb. The east chose Nicalou as they had a PRIOR working relationship with the man. They chose their neutral because they had a PRIOR working relationship with the man.

I'm hungry for the lawsuit, I would much rather watch the destruction of a corrupt union. T minus 10 on John Prater!!!!!

WD.

Of course an arbitrator won't.... You will need a judge who is as unhinged as your arbitrator or, find one you can bribe after catching him on film with farm animals to see merit in your DFR against alpa looking further into this debacle
and resolving it.

By the way, we expected him to follow the loosely scripted merger policy
of no windfalls for either group and, to preserve career expectations also. I doubt he would ever be picked to do another airline arbitration again, his old age aside, do I have to explain that also. By the way, what did you do with those pictures anyway?

 

[vtwin]

Excellent Post Positive Rate. Here is the meat of the Resolution passed:

THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED that the President continue to
employ all the resources of the Association to assist the MECs in
achieving these goals, and

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that further consideration of this
agenda item is deferred to a special meeting of the Executive Council to
be called by the President to be held in June 2007

I read spin, delay, stall, get in the muddy middle, grey zone. ALPA is working so hard to listen to the cares and concerns of the East dudes -- get real. HQ ain't doing jack. They don't want to touch this thing at all. "We'll assist the MECs" to do what?? Nothing -- for how long 6-9 months. "we'll deferr to June for review" ok, yeah. Zip Zero NADA. I bet you get some sort of "after very careful review" ... nothing changes. Time heals it all. Any PR firm would say stall. There isn't one West guy who would vote to compromise anything -- we'll go our own way first. We negotiated for 18 months. All over.

Here is a read ahead. At some point Parker gets tired of waiting. He needs a list to get the company moving forward. He'll hire to the West -- we need crews. Not a new dude on property since the merger and the summer schedule is in jepordy if we don't absorb on the bottom soon. He will recall your East pilots to the West certificate and if they don't accept, he'll hire off the street to it. He will move new metal to the West, or sell off more 737s on the East side and then furlough/stop recalling East pilots if he has too much on that side of the house. The East is playing with absolute fire on thier side of the street. Parker is a West man and already has the US Airways certificate. Expect the West guys to open Section 6 and work on our own contract if the East doesn't want a new contract. Re-read Positive Rate's post. That is the real issue. All this "award injustice" is wasted breath.

Your wet dream makes a lot of sense if the West was responsible for 80% of the profit margin and most of the revenue but it is not, so now what?

 

[Hpilot]

The AWA delusion continues. Play fair? You stole our retirements from us, Nicolau should have utilized conditions and restrictions to prevent that from happening.

14-1(awa) saw a reason to look further into this award, I guess they are not playing fair.

Stole your retirements? I've gone from a five year upgrade to total stagnation for the last three years. Meanwhile all the recalls have gone out east. Oh yeah, and you guys still have jobs. Talk about windfalls, go look in the mirror. On top of that you guys have the top 500 slots. The contract the company just offered is 80% improvements for the East. It's no wonder you guys got the industries worst contract shoved down your throats. You wouldn't negotiate. It's all "mine, mine, mine, gimme, gimme, gimme". All we have to do out west is sit back and watch you guys destroy yourselves. You sure are good at it.