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If only pilots would do this

  • Thread starter Thread starter Allen1
  • Start date Start date
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Allen1

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 23, 2003
Posts
111
May 14, 2007
Kim Pruitt
FAA, ATO CSA Service Center
Administrative Services Group, AJO-2C5
2601 Meacham Blvd.
Fort Worth, TX 76137

Dear Kim Pruitt and the FAA:
I am declining the offer of the July 13, 2007 class date for an air traffic control specialist position at Chicago Air Route Control Center (ARTCC) for the following reasons:
1) Extremely low pay ($8.98 an hour) in Oklahoma City with no per diem
2) Imposed work rules
3) Unacceptable treatment of current and future ATC employees
4) Inconsistency in the hiring of CTI graduates

I graduated in August 2003 from the University of North Dakota’s CTI program. It is now May 2007 and I just received an email indicating that I could join the July 13th class at Oklahoma City. Why did it take me FOUR YEARS to get a class date? Why did I see so many people graduate after me and get hired before me? Why the inconsistencies? I have spent the last four years taking time off work, spending money out of my own pocket and going out of my way to meet all of your hiring requirements. I am no longer going to waste my valuable time and money for an incompetent and malicious agency.
The following is a very general timeline of my hiring process because if I were to provide a detailed timeline, it would take up an entire page:
August 2003 – graduated from UND CTI program
August 2003 – physical
August 2003 – drug test
December 2004 – referred to the region
October 2005 – took 16PF
October 2005 – physical
October 2005 – drug test
November 2005 – background check initiated
June 30, 2006 – submitted my acceptance of a tentative offer for an ATCS position
September 2006 – background check cleared
January 2007 – physical
January 2007 – drug test
March 2007 – received an email from FAA wanting to know if I took the 16PF
May 2007 – was informed I could be placed in the 7/13/07 class

In addition to the ridiculous hiring process, I simply cannot afford to accept this offer. I have an extremely large amount of college debt ($100,000+) in addition to the rising cost of living (gas, electricity, lodging, food, etc.). I cannot afford to live in Oklahoma City for three months at $8.98 an hour with no per diem. Under the old rules, I could afford to accept this offer.
The position I have been put in is very disheartening because I really wanted to be an air traffic controller. I studied hard, worked hard and I continued to do what was asked of me to meet the agency’s hiring requirements, but enough is enough. Due to my hiring experience thus far, the extremely low pay in Oklahoma City, the lowered salary for new hire air traffic controllers, and the imposed work rules, I will not accept this job. I refuse to go further in debt to work for an agency that does not value its employees.
Sincerely,
Applicant X
 
I'm kinda confused by this guy. First he states how badly he wanted the job from when he graduated in 2003, and how he fought very hard every step of the way. And when he did get the job, he declined it due to poor work conditions and pay? Did he not research into it before and see what he was really about to get into? Seems that if you're willing to take $100k debt to go into college to be a controller, then the least you should do is investigate how much you'll make and what kind of working conditions you will face. So when you do receive a job offer, you aren't "surprised" by any part of the offer.
 
I'm kinda confused by this guy. First he states how badly he wanted the job from when he graduated in 2003, and how he fought very hard every step of the way. And when he did get the job, he declined it due to poor work conditions and pay? Did he not research into it before and see what he was really about to get into? Seems that if you're willing to take $100k debt to go into college to be a controller, then the least you should do is investigate how much you'll make and what kind of working conditions you will face. So when you do receive a job offer, you aren't "surprised" by any part of the offer.

You would think so but many people get blinded by this little thing called "love." I think it happened to most of us before we fully realized where our training and money was taking us...
 
May 14, 2007
Kim Pruitt
FAA, ATO CSA Service Center
Administrative Services Group, AJO-2C5
2601 Meacham Blvd.
Fort Worth, TX 76137
Dear Kim Pruitt and the FAA:
I am declining the offer of the July 13, 2007 class date for an air traffic control specialist position at Chicago Air Route Control Center (ARTCC) for the following reasons:
1) Extremely low pay ($8.98 an hour) in Oklahoma City with no per diem
2) Imposed work rules
3) Unacceptable treatment of current and future ATC employees
4) Inconsistency in the hiring of CTI graduates
I graduated in August 2003 from the University of North Dakota’s CTI program. It is now May 2007 and I just received an email indicating that I could join the July 13th class at Oklahoma City. Why did it take me FOUR YEARS to get a class date? Why did I see so many people graduate after me and get hired before me? Why the inconsistencies? I have spent the last four years taking time off work, spending money out of my own pocket and going out of my way to meet all of your hiring requirements. I am no longer going to waste my valuable time and money for an incompetent and malicious agency.
The following is a very general timeline of my hiring process because if I were to provide a detailed timeline, it would take up an entire page:
August 2003 – graduated from UND CTI program
August 2003 – physical
August 2003 – drug test
December 2004 – referred to the region
October 2005 – took 16PF
October 2005 – physical
October 2005 – drug test
November 2005 – background check initiated
June 30, 2006 – submitted my acceptance of a tentative offer for an ATCS position
September 2006 – background check cleared
January 2007 – physical
January 2007 – drug test
March 2007 – received an email from FAA wanting to know if I took the 16PF
May 2007 – was informed I could be placed in the 7/13/07 class
In addition to the ridiculous hiring process, I simply cannot afford to accept this offer. I have an extremely large amount of college debt ($100,000+) in addition to the rising cost of living (gas, electricity, lodging, food, etc.). I cannot afford to live in Oklahoma City for three months at $8.98 an hour with no per diem. Under the old rules, I could afford to accept this offer.
The position I have been put in is very disheartening because I really wanted to be an air traffic controller. I studied hard, worked hard and I continued to do what was asked of me to meet the agency’s hiring requirements, but enough is enough. Due to my hiring experience thus far, the extremely low pay in Oklahoma City, the lowered salary for new hire air traffic controllers, and the imposed work rules, I will not accept this job. I refuse to go further in debt to work for an agency that does not value its employees.
Sincerely,
Applicant X

"if only pilots would do that" Your talking about yourself. Here's an idea, start the trend and quit your job today.
 
I'm kinda confused by this guy. First he states how badly he wanted the job from when he graduated in 2003, and how he fought very hard every step of the way. And when he did get the job, he declined it due to poor work conditions and pay? Did he not research into it before and see what he was really about to get into? Seems that if you're willing to take $100k debt to go into college to be a controller, then the least you should do is investigate how much you'll make and what kind of working conditions you will face. So when you do receive a job offer, you aren't "surprised" by any part of the offer.


Pretty sure a lot of their pay and work rules have changed since 2003.
 
Pretty sure a lot of their pay and work rules have changed since 2003.

Not only that, but if the graduation was in 03, they probably started in about 2000, when the entire world of aviation was a different place.

This applicant is one of the few taking responsibility for their choices and making decisions accordingly, yet they still get hammered on here for not doing research and what not. Ridiculous.
 
Last edited:
I'm kinda confused by this guy. First he states how badly he wanted the job from when he graduated in 2003, and how he fought very hard every step of the way. And when he did get the job, he declined it due to poor work conditions and pay? Did he not research into it before and see what he was really about to get into? Seems that if you're willing to take $100k debt to go into college to be a controller, then the least you should do is investigate how much you'll make and what kind of working conditions you will face. So when you do receive a job offer, you aren't "surprised" by any part of the offer.

No I didn't write it was posted some where is on somebodys blog. Also when the person graduated Controllers were starting out with a lot more pay then they are now. Now they are working under an imposed contract. The person who wrote this is a friend of mine and she now has a better job in the healthcare field.
 
What was the number of that Truck Driver's school?
 
Not only that, but if the graduation was in 03, they probably started in about 2000, when the entire world of aviation was a different place.

This applicant is one of the few taking responsibility for their choices and making decisions accordingly, yet they still get hammered on here for not doing research and what not. Ridiculous.

Well ok, if she started before 9/11, that's understandable. Back then wages were actually decent.

But someone said the work rule and pay changes happened around 2003?

If that's the case, this person should have at least started to look into it and try to evaluate what kind of salary and working conditions they would be getting into.

If she could have done that in 2003 (or whenever it was the instant the work rules and pay changed), then she could have saved herself four years of trouble until now, 2007.

The fact that she applied again and again consistently and stayed persistent until 2007 makes me think that she DID want the job badly, but when got the offer letter, was truly "shocked" at what she was going to be making and under what work conditions she was facing. That's why I think it was a matter of not looking into the new work rules and pay, and that's why I said she should have researced a bit more when the changes were implemented.


Let me give you an example. I am working very hard to get on with Pinnacle. I would love it there because I can return to Michigan and live in base (no commuting). I owe to myself to thoroughly research the pay and working conditions. So, I got in touch with a PNCL pilot, and he gave me the contract. So now, I know of their hourly pay rates I can expect, the vacation and sick time I can expect, etc. etc.
AND, if Mr. "PT the Clown" somehow forced concessions on the PNCL group (doubt it, but if he did), then I would owe it to myself to research the new changes in work rules or pay, and then decide if I can still see myself working at Pinnacle. You owe it to yourself to thoroughly research any company you want to work at, especially if they start to announce work rule and pay changes.
 
Well ok, if she started before 9/11, that's understandable. Back then wages were actually decent.

But someone said the work rule and pay changes happened around 2003?

If that's the case, this person should have at least started to look into it and try to evaluate what kind of salary and working conditions they would be getting into.

If she could have done that in 2003 (or whenever it was the instant the work rules and pay changed), then she could have saved herself four years of trouble until now, 2007.

The fact that she applied again and again consistently and stayed persistent until 2007 makes me think that she DID want the job badly, but when got the offer letter, was truly "shocked" at what she was going to be making and under what work conditions she was facing. That's why I think it was a matter of not looking into the new work rules and pay, and that's why I said she should have researced a bit more when the changes were implemented.


Let me give you an example. I am working very hard to get on with Pinnacle. I would love it there because I can return to Michigan and live in base (no commuting). I owe to myself to thoroughly research the pay and working conditions. So, I got in touch with a PNCL pilot, and he gave me the contract. So now, I know of their hourly pay rates I can expect, the vacation and sick time I can expect, etc. etc.
AND, if Mr. "PT the Clown" somehow forced concessions on the PNCL group (doubt it, but if he did), then I would owe it to myself to research the new changes in work rules or pay, and then decide if I can still see myself working at Pinnacle. You owe it to yourself to thoroughly research any company you want to work at, especially if they start to announce work rule and pay changes.

The new contract was settled and rules and pay were imposed sometime during 2006.
 
The new contract was settled and rules and pay were imposed sometime during 2006.


Oh. Okay, I guess she had no way to foresee that. It still sucks she took over $100k of a college debt to pursue her dream, and things didn't work out.
Shoulda gone to med school! :beer:
 
Oh. Okay, I guess she had no way to foresee that. It still sucks she took over $100k of a college debt to pursue her dream, and things didn't work out.
Shoulda gone to med school! :beer:


I agree.....
 
$8.98 X 8 hours = $71.84 per day
$71.84 X 5 days = $359.20 per week
$359.20 X 4 weeks = $1436.80

If only I could get paid so much during training at an airline!! I mean, it's low, but it's only for three months. Maybe she couldn't pull it off financially (and I understand how that goes), but it's probably not worth starting a riot over.

-Goose
 

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