Regional Airline Pilot Supply......The New Reality

[VWDrvr21]

Might I add---not even the proffesional courtesy of a letter saying thanks but no thanks. But they expect US to be proffesionals!

 

[John Pennekamp]

Might I add---not even the proffesional courtesy of a letter saying thanks but no thanks. But they expect US to be proffesionals!

Every airline does the same thing. They think if you don't care enough to give them good paperwork, then you don't really want to work for them.

Sounds like you would be an excellent pilot candidate. Fix the paperwork if you want to fly for ASA.

In addition to Fins' advice, I would suggest that if you really want to work for another airline (especially ASA), you may need to lose the chip on your shoulder.

 

[VWDrvr21]

There was no paperwork problem! This is not the first application I have done.They vaugley said tailnumber discrepency and was told the recruiter who said this was not very confident sounding. Besides, Ive flown the same aircraft for the last five hundred hours! Sounds like BS and was a easy way to tell my Capt. friend why they werent going to interview. Im just curious as why they wont. Im not going to lose any sleep over this low paying job but it seems they want kids who will just obey.

 

[John Pennekamp]

There was no paperwork problem! This is not the first application I have done.They vaugley said tailnumber discrepency and was told the recruiter who said this was not very confident sounding. Besides, Ive flown the same aircraft for the last five hundred hours! Sounds like BS and was a easy way to tell my Capt. friend why they werent going to interview. Im just curious as why they wont. Im not going to lose any sleep over this low paying job but it seems they want kids who will just obey.

As I said...

 

[svcta]

In addition to Fins' advice, I would suggest that if you really want to work for another airline (especially ASA), you may need to lose the chip on your shoulder.

Who's the one with the chip? I don't think anything said warranted that. Besides, I tend to agree with the statement that upset you.

Back to the topic at hand:

I've heard and seen some pretty clear indications that companies are having a hard time filling classes. Why else would minimums be down to simply a commercial multi? Places offering signing bonuses? Referral bonuses to employees? Something's going on. Pilot training appears to have fallen off(have you seen rental prices lately?) and the top level employers are hiring again.

 

[John Pennekamp]

Nevermind. If you don't get the irony of asking why you didn't get the job, then bitching about how the company is unfair within 10 minutes of each other, it's probably not worth explaining.

 

[Ratherbsurfing]

Hey Mugsy, I flew at KAE and had no problems getting offers. PM me, I'm curious if I know you.

 

[idoitupsidedown]

The airlines would be in a lot better shape if they only hired half of the people they turn away in the interviews for stupid reasons. (No not me, I have a class date coming up). I have been to more than one interview and seen current freight dogs (single pilot) with 1500+ TT get turned away due to a stupid written test with irrelevant questions. Believe it or not, there are some people out there who aren't aware of the gouge sites. Those sites are the reason the majority of the applicants get hired anyway, regardless of experience, including me.

Sorry but if a 1500 TT freight dawg (by the way that means they've been flying freight for a whopping 300 hours by him/herself) is too wrapped up in their greatness to pull out some old books and study basic instrument knowledge I really don't care if they can't pass a written and get another job. they probably had to pass a similar written at the company they currently fly for so why can't they pass it now? also, the HR ppl at every airline are aware of gouge sites and that every applicant has the ability to have figured out verbatim what is going down at the interview. If they were really worried about it, they would have a question bank 3000 questions deep, 100 different sim profiles, and not ask canned HR questions. Play the game, study the gouges (and for those pilots not aware ofthe gouges - how is that possible? they've never once mentioned to another pilot that they have an interview coming up and gotten the response "did you read the gouges?". right), study your basic instrument crap (if you knew half the stuff you crammed into your brain for you private pilot instrument checkride you can pass a regional airline's interview written test), get a suit, get a personality, don't act like your so nervous you might cry, and guess what? if XYZ airline offered you an interview, their going to offer you a job.

 

[Future Furlough]

...study your basic instrument crap (if you knew half the stuff you crammed into your brain for you private pilot instrument checkride you can pass a regional airline's interview written test), get a suit, get a personality, don't act like your so nervous you might cry, and guess what? if XYZ airline offered you an interview, their going to offer you a job.

And we have a winner!imp:

That response is so dead on it makes me want to cry. If you don't want to do the work, get out of aviation.

 

[plunger]

Sorry but if a 1500 TT freight dawg (by the way that means they've been flying freight for a whopping 300 hours by him/herself) is too wrapped up in their greatness to pull out some old books and study basic instrument knowledge I really don't care if they can't pass a written and get another job. they probably had to pass a similar written at the company they currently fly for so why can't they pass it now? also, the HR ppl at every airline are aware of gouge sites and that every applicant has the ability to have figured out verbatim what is going down at the interview. If they were really worried about it, they would have a question bank 3000 questions deep, 100 different sim profiles, and not ask canned HR questions. Play the game, study the gouges (and for those pilots not aware ofthe gouges - how is that possible? they've never once mentioned to another pilot that they have an interview coming up and gotten the response "did you read the gouges?". right), study your basic instrument crap (if you knew half the stuff you crammed into your brain for you private pilot instrument checkride you can pass a regional airline's interview written test), get a suit, get a personality, don't act like your so nervous you might cry, and guess what? if XYZ airline offered you an interview, their going to offer you a job.

That measly 300 hours they have flying by themself is more than the total time of some of the applicants I've interviewed with. My favorite test question thus for is "what is the CDI sensitivity at the FAWP on a GPS approach". ANSWER: .3NM. If you know the answer to that without looking it up, you need to get a hobby.

 

[Jedi_Cheese]

My favorite test question thus for is "what is the CDI sensitivity at the FAWP on a GPS approach". ANSWER: .3NM. If you know the answer to that without looking it up, you need to get a hobby.

...Or stop teaching instrument students...

 

[chignutsak]

That measly 300 hours they have flying by themself is more than the total time of some of the applicants I've interviewed with. My favorite test question thus for is "what is the CDI sensitivity at the FAWP on a GPS approach". ANSWER: .3NM. If you know the answer to that without looking it up, you need to get a hobby.

I'm wrapping up initial at a 121 carrier. They want us to know that. I've got plenty of hobbies, thanks.

 

[plunger]

...Or stop teaching instrument students...[/quote

If I want to know who the best pilot out there is, I'm sure all I have to do is ask you. I'd bet you can tell me.

 

[plunger]

I'm wrapping up initial at a 121 carrier. They want us to know that. I've got plenty of hobbies, thanks.

I meant other than touching yourself out of excitement over flying a jet.

 

[Goose Egg]

My favorite test question thus for is "what is the CDI sensitivity at the FAWP on a GPS approach". ANSWER: .3NM. If you know the answer to that without looking it up, you need to get a hobby.

Dang. Known it for a couple years. I used to have hobbies, before I started flight instructing.

-Goose

 

[plunger]

Well, it appears I'm an idiot I guess for having to reference that. Oh well, what can ya do.

 

[Philerup]

If it makes you feel better I am a 121 Captain and I didn't have a clue. Somehow I manage to get it done in spite of my lack of trivia recall. That and we don't fly GPS approaches. I agree that some of the questions I have seen asked are rediculous and weed out people they shouldn't. Some of the best pilots I have ever flown with would stumble on some of the basic questions we knew so well in flight school. They however can quote the ops. manual. I guess you remember what you use. Knowing how wide a localizer is at minimums is wasted knowledge, what I want to know is can you keep it in the middle.

 

[N60OSU]

An aside about freightdoggin. It's tough, it's great, it builds character and all the rest. But as a prep for airline work, I'm not sure it's the place to be. Don't get me wrong, I don't regret a minute of the nearly two years I flew cancelled checks around (if there were a future in it, I'd never have left). But now I'm a 3000 hour pilot who's struggling in the sim while 800 hour flight instructors are breezing by because I can't get used to the automation. Just remember, freight pups, airlines are going to train you to fly an autopilot, not an airplane. And check airmen don't care about that one time you...well enough said.

Preach on. I just finished initial at Eagle after a little over a year and a half of freight doggin'. The crew concept issue came up in the HR part of my interview as a point of concern on the part of the HR lady. I will say it has been tough and came up during a number of sim debriefs. I embrace the crew environment but was told repeatedly that I was trying to do too much as PF.

 

[Americam]

Knowing how wide a localizer is at minimums is wasted knowledge, what I want to know is can you keep it in the middle.

Well said. I come from a flight school (student then instructor) where trivial knowledge is nearly 90% of checkride questions. While the students can tell you how many amps the gear pump will pull during retraction or the PSI of the nitrogen unfeathering accumulator, flying technique seems to be placed on the backburner... simply because trivial knowledge is easier to teach.

 

[Smacktard]

ASA sent me a packet-Im not most experienced but flew as FE on 727,Dc10 internationally and have 2000 FE, 1600 fixed, 500 jet.By this time Im fully aware of CRM and have experience most pilots will never see.Age 35.Did not get interview call and had friend on inside check why.Told discrepency on paperwork but friend feels that ASA probably just thinks I will just leave shortly where as a 400 hour guy they know will stick around. What do you think?

Maybe it's cause you didn't use any spaces between your sentences on your application!

 

[VWDrvr21]

Does that apply when you handwrite it on paper smartass?

 

[Flyer1015]

True dat!

The whole ATP written as part of an "interview" has to be one of the stupidest holdovers some regionals still play with.

Yes, the airline is "sorry" that you couldn't study for a simple A, B, C multiple choice exam in which you only needed a 70% to pass.

Shows motivation. If you can't sit down for a week or two to study and take the ATP written exam, the airline isn't seeing a very motivated individual.

How are they to know that you are serious about studying, and will do well in new-hire training, if you can't even have the motivation to take the ATP written exam?

Lets face it... the ATP written exam in the US is a JOKE! You can EASILY get a passing score of above 70%. There are multiple publications (Gleim, ASA, etc) who publish EVERY single ATP question AND answer. Study those and I bet you'd pass.

/end rant.

 

[HA25]

In the end, I still say we don't and will never have a "shortage" of pilots with the way technology has made flying easy these days.. I mean, we all know that when the ********************e hits the fan, basic airman skills are going to save the day, but the airlines and lawyers have already figured out the statistical chance of a failure of one of these modern RJs to loose all of it's automation and have the pilot really need to fly it on the peanut gyro's... next to nill.. so why not continue to hire 250 hour mediocre pilots who wouldn't be able to find their way out of a paper back much less fly a San Antonio Sewer pipe back in the day when the "commuters" were really a place to hone airmanship skills for the "Majors"..

 

[legalalien]

In the end, I still say we don't and will never have a "shortage" of pilots with the way technology has made flying easy these days.. I mean, we all know that when the ********************e hits the fan, basic airman skills are going to save the day, but the airlines and lawyers have already figured out the statistical chance of a failure of one of these modern RJs to loose all of it's automation and have the pilot really need to fly it on the peanut gyro's... next to nill.. so why not continue to hire 250 hour mediocre pilots who wouldn't be able to find their way out of a paper back much less fly a San Antonio Sewer pipe back in the day when the "commuters" were really a place to hone airmanship skills for the "Majors"..

That may happen more than they think - One of ASA's CRJs had to get down from cruise in night IMC within the last two or three months on the Peanut!

 

[HA25]

That may happen more than they think - One of ASA's CRJs had to get down from cruise in night IMC within the last two or three months on the Peanut!

Well if one of those old crusty experienced CA's like I used to fly with at ASA was at the helm (say like Kerry or Randy S) was at the controls I'd have no doubt of the outcome... Those guys came up in the pre-glass days and can fly with a needle and ball... today's ERAU brats are flying 100% Glass trainers and will never have to figure out how to fly a VOR or NDB approach with an RMI, or they might see it once or twice in training but not day in and day out like we used to back in the 80's and early 90's..

 

[JohnnyP]

.........

... today's ERAU brats are flying 100% Glass trainers and will never have to figure out how to fly a VOR or NDB approach with an RMI, or they might see it once or twice in training but not day in and day out like we used to back in the 80's and early 90's..

Ya sound a little bitter about something. Not their fault they aren't going to have to fly NDB approaches, just the way things are headed. Its a nice skill to have, but is a dieing art I believe. Might as well start doing some focusing on the future of what everyone is going to see in their careers.

Did someone from Riddle beat you out for a job once?

 

[Gnarloooo]

Did someone from Riddle beat you out for a job once?

The only thing Riddle dorks beat is their meat.

 

[HA25]

Ya sound a little bitter about something. Not their fault they aren't going to have to fly NDB approaches, just the way things are headed. Its a nice skill to have, but is a dieing art I believe. Might as well start doing some focusing on the future of what everyone is going to see in their careers.

Did someone from Riddle beat you out for a job once?

No, I'm actually a lot bitter!!... you see, part of the problem today with this profession is that it's flooded with mediocre pilots who in the old days would never have gotten thru their Instrument rating, much less an ATP.. I've spent a few hours (waiting on some Sim time) recently at the Phoenix campus of Pan-Am academy where they create the future pilots to fill these Microsoft cockpits.. and listened in on two lessons.. it's really sad spacial and positional awareness is not emphasized today like it used to be when all you had was a chart, a bearing and if you're lucky a DME, otherwise it was a 2nd bearing.. It's all moving maps today and that is part of what is making it so "easy" to get thru training, land an RJ job at 500 hours and compete with everyone else for that coveted dream job.. supply and demand are all screwed up because we've got such low standards!

 

[Flyer1015]

The only thing Riddle dorks beat is their meat.

LOL!

That's probably the third time now I've spit out my Pepsi while laughing, thanks to flightinfo forums!

 

[JohnnyP]

.......

No, I'm actually a lot bitter!!... you see, part of the problem today with this profession is that it's flooded with mediocre pilots who in the old days would never have gotten thru their Instrument rating, much less an ATP.. I've spent a few hours (waiting on some Sim time) recently at the Phoenix campus of Pan-Am academy where they create the future pilots to fill these Microsoft cockpits.. and listened in on two lessons.. it's really sad spacial and positional awareness is not emphasized today like it used to be when all you had was a chart, a bearing and if you're lucky a DME, otherwise it was a 2nd bearing.. It's all moving maps today and that is part of what is making it so "easy" to get thru training, land an RJ job at 500 hours and compete with everyone else for that coveted dream job.. supply and demand are all screwed up because we've got such low standards!

Ok, I can understand where your coming from there, and agree with you on certain things. But.....

So, what is your solution? Hold back aviation technology so we can all sweat over locating our position from bearings, so we're all considered worthy? Wave of the future my man, get used to it.

No use in trying to keep things "the way they were, the way they used to be, because thats how I did it, and by god, thats how everyone should do it".

Would you agree that the future is computers, moving maps, and GPS approaches?

If so, why harp on things like NBD approaches, when more than likely they will never, ever see one, unless they venture out to the far reaches of the earth? (and even still more than likely wont see one. I fly to some pretty remote areas out here, and rarely ever run into one. And if I had to fly one, i can promise you it would be a bit rusty).

You might as well put some more focus on the things they will be sure to see in their flying careers. (but not to say that certain things should be totally removed from the syllabus).

The other part of your post basically deals with the attitude today of new pilots, and not really the new ways we are going to have to fly in the not so distant future.

Thats a whole other topic.