Netjets back to HBA and Gateway?

[Diesel]

Flylow I never said you said there are the same dips.

I'm saying safety said there are dips.

 

[fischman]

Flylow I never said you said there are the same dips.

I'm saying safety said there are dips.

What are you sayin?:nuts:

 

[FLYLOW22]

I'm confused!

 

[Diesel]

Heck i don't even know what I was saying.

Going to have to drink some beers to reread that.

 

[yosemite]

Heck i don't even know what I was saying.

Going to have to drink some beers to reread that.

Dog gone!

I just KNEW you were sober dude.... You were making WAY too much sense over here. Somehow, it all just seems wrong. :laugh:

 

[ljg]

Thank you Fozzy.

See guys, that wasn't so hard. Civil, to the point, and not a hint of attitude.

I know the union guys are already on it. If there is anything to come out of it I know they will let us know ASAP.

Thanks for all the PMs from the guys that sent them.

P.S. I am a total bucket of wrenches to fly with. I'm the entire toolbox. Just ask the guys on flightinfo.com. Everybody is a tool except themselves.:smash:

Hugs and kisses to all you b!tches.

HA HA Right on

 

[captain dad]

Njamerica-



A lot of people come here because it is anonymous and just like anything else they can be tougher here than on the union board.



Why should the union have to push the company to do what's right. The company can make the change at any time but they choose not to. So while guys are trying to save the company a few bucks by using LRC the company is actively spending more money to make sure your commute is longer and tougher than it needs to be.

Why HBA's are such a hot topic on our own messageboard is because people who have been here any length of time understand the company could care less about money. They've got plenty of it. I know its insane but its a fact.

So if you bought a house under an airport do you have the right to complain about the airport noise? Not really but you still do.



This is a pretty weird reason to leave and completely false. ACP's don't make any decisions for us. The captains make the decisions.... period. A standard NJ pilot has to deal with a lot more variables than a 121 world. At NJ being a captain is not just a title. Its the ability to manage a million different variables not just inside the cockpit but all the way to the hotel. The minute ACP's start making our decisions for us I'll be joining you walking out the door.

Enjoy your new job. Hopefully you'll be able to handle the variables there better.

LOOK WHO IS ON THE CROSS NOW! OR IS THAT JUST A REALLY TALL SOAPBOX?

YOU CARRY AN AXE YOU LIKE TO CUT PEOPLE DOWN SO MUCH.


YOU SHOULD CHANGE YOUR NAME TO "I'M ALWAYS RIGHT!"

IS YOUR REAL NAME DICK, OR IS THAT JUST A NICKNAME?:laugh:

"LOOSEN UP A LITLLE BABY. YOU'RE MONEY AND YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW IT." - VINCE VAUGHN

 

[Diesel]

Tall soapbox, top of the mountain, whatever I need to do to make sure people thinking of coming to NJ knows the real deal in regards to HBA's and domiciles.

There are a lot of people just now understanding what commuting means and how much it sucks.

So i'll keep yelling from the mountaintop. Domiciles aren't changing, no matter how much you hope for it and think the company is going to do the right thing.

Remember they are wasting money to make sure you have to commute to your domicile. They haven't changed it. Why do you think that is?

 

[CA1900]

I'll take misguided bargaining chips for $800, Alex.

 

[RTRHD]

I'll take misguided bargaining chips for $800, Alex.

LOL.........

 

[captain dad]

Why all the negativity? Are you a glass half empty guy?

"Sucks" is a relative term and unless you are actually commuting yourself, I don't think your opinion on the subject really counts.

Commuting to this job isn't the best way, but everyone has their own situation and own reasons.

I am optomistic, but have been realistic about the base situation. I have not told anyone that the base system is going away any time soon. However, as we all know, it will be a topic in ongoing and future talks.

If you are thinking about coming to NJA do your research. Know what you are getting into before you accept the job.

I can't believe that a college educated, professional pilot could accept a job without realizing what is really going on. Nor have I had a single PM talking about the company going back to HBAs.

So for those of you getting on my ass about starting and or spreading rumors...
Bite Me!

A positive attitude could help. Being bitter and pissed doesn't help anyone. It doesn't matter who it's directed at.

 

[Diesel]

Nobody is being bitter. I'm a realist and using over 7 years of working for this company and 5 years of being in negotiations for a contract that was "right around the corner".

I don't think your opinion on the subject really counts.

Really you think so?

The email also says hurry up and designate your training travel airport! Sounds to me like feelers are being put out to exactly how many dumbaciled crewmembers want HBA.

You don't think that outside crewmembers who are on the fence see this as, "oh its just around the corner" "i can stick it out for a couple of months"

If you really want to ask direct questions about hba's a better portal would be the union weboard where we are talking apples to apples.

I can't believe that a college educated, professional pilot could accept a job without realizing what is really going on.

Happens everyday. Or maybe they take it with blinders on thinking that change is just around the corner due to some post they might have heard from a friend of a friend on some weboard.

You can be optimistic all you want but the reality is it is costing the company money to have domiciles and they are still willing to do that. Once again look at the big picture.

 

[gunfyter]

Designating training travel airports is a step backward from what we had pre-2005CBA.

We use to be able to call in a couple of weeks before training and designate any airport... could change every training event.

 

[fischman]

Nobody is being bitter. I'm a realist and using over 7 years of working for this company and 5 years of being in negotiations for a contract that was "right around the corner".



Really you think so?



You don't think that outside crewmembers who are on the fence see this as, "oh its just around the corner" "i can stick it out for a couple of months"

If you really want to ask direct questions about hba's a better portal would be the union weboard where we are talking apples to apples.



Happens everyday. Or maybe they take it with blinders on thinking that change is just around the corner due to some post they might have heard from a friend of a friend on some weboard.

You can be optimistic all you want but the reality is it is costing the company money to have domiciles and they are still willing to do that. Once again look at the big picture.

BINGO!!!

I would also add that if you are a new hire at NJA, don't be shy about contacting you New-Hire Mentor or P2P rep. If you are not sure who to contact, go onto the 1108.org site P2P section and PICK ONE. They have all volunteered for a reason. To HELP.

 

[captain dad]

Nobody is being bitter. I'm a realist and using over 7 years of working for this company and 5 years of being in negotiations for a contract that was "right around the corner".



Really you think so?



You don't think that outside crewmembers who are on the fence see this as, "oh its just around the corner" "i can stick it out for a couple of months"

If you really want to ask direct questions about hba's a better portal would be the union weboard where we are talking apples to apples.



Happens everyday. Or maybe they take it with blinders on thinking that change is just around the corner due to some post they might have heard from a friend of a friend on some weboard.

You can be optimistic all you want but the reality is it is costing the company money to have domiciles and they are still willing to do that. Once again look at the big picture.

Sweetheart, you quote me out of context more than fox news.

As for your opinion...I was talking about commuting, not your years of service. Slow down, read carefully. If you have worked here for 7 years you don't commute. I commuted for years at the airlines and now at NJA. I think people that are faced with commuting would rather hear from someone who is doing it and knows what they are talking about.

You make it sound like I have been intentionally coaxing people to try commuting at NJA. I have said more than once "DO YOUR REASEARCH!", don't try to make me feel resposible for someone elses stupidity. I can't control what people think. I suggest you take that one and pound sand with it.

As for the "BIG PICTURE" why don't you explain it to me. It shouldn't be that hard. I am obviously too stupid to figure it out. With your overwhelming superiority and infinite knowledge, it shouldn't take you long. And with 3500+ posts you obviouslly like to listen to yourself talk.

I think you are pissed at people like me that have made the commute work.
I think you are so jaded and bitter toward the company and the way they treated you pre 2006, that you can't play nice anymore.

I also think that you want us all to quit, sighting the domicile system as the cause. To hell with my career as long as you get what you want. Right? Then you can gloat and say "We told you so!", and you can be Right! That's what it really comes down to. Isn't it?

I have heard first hand accounts about the way it was here a few years ago. I know it was a lot worse than it is now. I sympathize with all the pilots that lived it. But, you (Diesel) still took the job. Is that my fault to?

Come off your perch and have a beer.:beer:

Go ahead and take your shots.

I think I ran into you on my last tour. B!tch, b!tch, b!tch! Not one positive thing to say. What a waste.

I really don't mean to be mean, but get off my ass! I have an opinion. If you don't agree fine. You start telling me what to do and what to think...you can jam it! This ain't my first rodeo. Or second, or third.

 

[CA1900]

As for your opinion...I was talking about commuting, not your years of service. Slow down, read carefully. If you have worked here for 7 years you don't commute.

Maybe not now, but every single personal friend I have who's a NetJets pilot was commuting many hours to a gateway prior to the 2005 contract. I'd say it's possible, and even likely, that Diesel knows all too well what it's like to commute to this job, and under far worse terms than we're dealing with in this CBA and 91K.


I hope you're not this hostile out on the line when someone disagrees with you. :0

 

[Diesel]

I don't bitch at all (besides crew food) I'm very happy here this company has treated me very well over my years of service. We have both learned from each other but many of us learned one thing. The company has no problem wasting money to drag an issue out for years. Its a fact. No bitterness to the company it is a business decision that they choose. I fly the planes, I don't make their business decisions.

You'll find that many pilots have worked here longer than me commuted for longer than I've been here. What defines a commute? Is it a 6 hour drive or is it a 30 minute flight? I used to drive 6hours through the mountains to get to my domicile and then spend the night. Is that a commute? When I was using my other domicile for half the year I was able to spend only 2 hours in the car. This kept me under my 3 hour window. Now remember this was before 91k so you had to be within 3 hours of the domicile.

You're saying I don't know anything about commuting. Ask some of the pilots on this board who commuted on SWA from different cities only to be airlined back to that same city for work. Think that didn't make them scratch their heads?

So where does commuting become commuting. I ended up moving to my domicile so HBA's didn't change anything for me. Should I be fired up and not want HBA's for anyone else? Nope because they are a great benefit. I would love everyone to have them. They don't though and that's just something we have to live with. Just like I can't change the crew food language until the company understands the true value of a fed and healthy pilot.

I think you are pissed at people like me that have made the commute work.

Honestly why would I care? I've got to take a subway to work big deal

I think you are so jaded and bitter toward the company and the way they treated you pre 2006, that you can't play nice anymore.

Can't be farther from the truth. I'd give my left nut right now for this company. My family loves this company. There is NO place I'd rather be. They have treated me better than anybody could imagine. I go above and beyond everyday but I'm a realist. I know the next fight is around the corner in 3 years and counting.

I also think that you want us all to quit, sighting the domicile system as the cause. To hell with my career as long as you get what you want. Right? Then you can gloat and say "We told you so!", and you can be Right! That's what it really comes down to. Isn't it?

Okay you're right I want 500 people to quit, cost the company millions of dollars in type ratings and training just so I can say i'm right. Whew got that off my chest. No i want people to be informed. I want them to understand that I'm not willing to give up one piece of anything for a deal they knew walking in the door. Here's the deal, you buy under an airport you live with the airplane noise. Maybe one day the place will close but why would you buy on the chance it might close.

I have heard first hand accounts about the way it was here a few years ago. I know it was a lot worse than it is now. I sympathize with all the pilots that lived it. But, you still took the job. Is that my fault to?

The job was what it was a few years ago. We all took it. Big deal.

Come off your perch and have a beer.:beer:

Actually i'm running an excavator all day today, beer will come later tonight when the burn pile gets under control.

Go ahead and take your shots.

No need to take shots. I'm just answering your questions open and honestly.

 

[captain dad]

If this is all true then why do you seem to put down everything I have to say?

If I have an opinion about a situation, it is just that my opinion. I am not to blame when some 2500 hour pilot with a hot ATP in his pocket takes the job and is ticked because he can't commute. NOT MY FAULT and NOT MY PROBLEM.

You have no clue what my background is. I would like to think that 20 years of experience would get a little respect. I guess that doesn't count.

I guess I'll have to be here for seven years before people stop slamming me.

Hey CA1900 - Did you think of that one all on your own. Wow, that stings.

Sorry, you failed. I am still glad to be here and very optimistic.

Is the excavator comment supposed to be figurative? So you are on a mission to spread truth and justice through-out flightinfo.com. Whatever.

If you are running a back hoe, be careful. I damn near flipped my 4430 a few weeks ago on a steep hill and wet grass.

 

[Diesel]

Well I broke the thumb off today. No that's not a figurative I literally broke the thumb off the excavator and that ended my brush burning.
I'm not really sure where the hostility you have comes from. This has nothing to do with time at xyz job or abc job. It has to do with people understanding management and that their tactic will not change anytime soon. Each company has their own history.

Nobody is slamming you. I'm just offering a different view on what the company is currently doing by expanding the travel for training. I see it as a short term solution to a long term problem that they've created and they have the keys to fix. Remember it doesn't affect me directly only indirectly but this carrot and stick affects the whole pilot force. Me included.

Different views on the same announcement.

 

[skiandsurf]

Different views on the same announcement.

Something else to think about. Now that upgrades are going to be running at 5 yrs (or more), its going to get even harder for the company to keep th new-hires.

( Thats right, we had 2 captain bids filled today, but only one was a true upgrade. Settle in for a long road to the left seat).

 

[Diesel]

What was the fleet? Must be the Ultra or 400 if only one was a true upgrade.

 

[skiandsurf]

What was the fleet? Must be the Ultra or 400 if only one was a true upgrade.

Think it was the Hawker 800xp. An FO from the F2000 and a PIC from ???? I forgot.

If we ever get the Hawker 4000, I am thinking that might get things rolling again, but until then, its going to be a long time.

 

[captain dad]

Well I broke the thumb off today. No that's not a figurative I literally broke the thumb off the excavator and that ended my brush burning.
I'm not really sure where the hostility you have comes from. This has nothing to do with time at xyz job or abc job. It has to do with people understanding management and that their tactic will not change anytime soon. Each company has their own history.

Nobody is slamming you. I'm just offering a different view on what the company is currently doing by expanding the travel for training. I see it as a short term solution to a long term problem that they've created and they have the keys to fix. Remember it doesn't affect me directly only indirectly but this carrot and stick affects the whole pilot force. Me included.

Different views on the same announcement.

Sorry to hear about your accident. Hopefully, there is no long term damage.

I think stupidity is the key to my frustration. I know that the company will use anything to bargain with, even if it isn't logical. I also think that butting heads is a waste of time. We all know how much this company wastes money on things they could save money on, while at the same time make every pilots life better. I worked as an efficency finder for a company a lifetime ago, and it bugs me to no end knowing that it would take nothing more than a stroke of a pen to save millions. I just can't rap my head around the fact that all the lawyers and managers don't do something about it. It would translate in cost savings, lower cost to the owners, etc...

Meanwhile, the massive slow down on upgrades make me feel a little sick to my stomach. I took the job with a financial plan to upgrade within five years. Anything sooner would be gravy. I am just wondering if the slow down is due to A/C deliveries, lack of new owners, industry saturation, or maybe people are just buying thier own airplanes. I don't know.

I will keep my fingures crossed and hope for the best. Either way it would take a lot to make me leave. I think I am in for the long haul.

 

[skiandsurf]

Either way it would take a lot to make me leave. I think I am in for the long haul.

When I did IOE at NJs, my IOE guy taught me a couple of important phrases that will get me thru each week.

1. Ice, coffee and papers.

2. Who cares?

The second one works for not only this job, but life in general.

Anytime you see something that could be done better.....who cares?
Anytime the company wates money....who cares?
Anytime anyone bitches or complains...who cares?
Anytime you get worked up over something....who cares?

All you/we can do as pilots for NJs, is do our best to do our jobs. This means, get to the airport on time, get the plane ready for the pax......everything else...who cares?

It sure keeps the stress level down.

And like you, I am in it for the long haul. As you have seen first hand, money is of no concern.

 

[Diesel]

CD-

No long term damage. I'm pretty hard on equipment to say the least. Allready have a driver going to get me a new thumb and pin. Of course now the pto broke on the dumptruck so thats another problem. Gotta love heavy equipment.

You're right the stupidity is astounding and you feel so helpless because it can be fixed in 5 seconds but it never happens. Thats why experience at this company makes you so jaded. Not because you don't care but because nobody is listening and really couldn't care. During contract negotiations the people upstairs were told that they couldn't have raises due to the pilots. Yet nobody thought about the sheer waste in scheduling, os, and a variety of different departments that didn't have any responsibility.

I realize the slowdown of upgrades combined with you commuting 6hrs plus doesn't help things right now and i pray it will change. Yet the company has no problem spending millions to make sure that you are put in a financial hardship and that is my point i'm trying to make. albeit with that typical new england charm that is right to the point and louder than everyone else.

I hope you end up staying because when you separate yourself from the upstairs you realize it is a great job and the benefits are wonderful. I hope you are able to use your hilton points to take the wife on a nice vacation this year free of charge. Finally hopefully we meet on the road.

Cheers.

D

 

[captain dad]

Glad to hear it was the thumb on your three point and not the one on your hand.

I was hoping the desire to do the right thing, be efficient, make money and play nice together was the order of the day here. Sad to here it is not the case. However, compared to other companies I have worked for, the vibe here is still 1000% better. I truly hope the relationship between work forces and management can and will improve with time. I know there was a lot of bad blood between other groups and pilots when the signing bonuses went out. Hopefully, that is gone now.

Like I said I hate stupidity and fighting like children over egos, money, control, or whatever, does make me a little hot.:angryfire

Yes, to answer your question, we are going to Cabo San Lucas for a week later in the year. I am in all the max point plans and it will be FREE! "Bring me something with booze and an umbrella!"imp:

"No matter where you go, there you are." - Buckaroo Banzai

 

[acaTerry]

Well I broke the thumb off today. No that's not a figurative I literally broke the thumb off the excavator and that ended my brush burning.

So I guess asking you to do some trenching is out of the question. Ah he!! I guess it's time to get a ditch witch...

 

[Diesel]

Like I said I hate stupidity and fighting like children over egos, money, control, or whatever, does make me a little hot.:angryfire

If that makes you hot ask around about the pilot that got fired and the courts said that he had done nothing wrong and that he must return to work. The company paid him for over 2 years to stay at home and the case almost went to the superior court... even though 4 other judgments ruled in his favor. Yet they paid him to stay at home. Hmmmmm

So I guess asking you to do some trenching is out of the question. Ah he!! I guess it's time to get a ditch witch...

I'll operate any piece of equipment with a feather touch. Its the metal that fatigues first.

 

[MississippiMud]

So will somebody please explain to me this "pay for performance" that has both the comany and union working together. How can the union even consider this? What it boils down to is us coming up with ways to save money for a company that is wasting it in order to further divide the pilot group and delay HBA for everyone. So, we are making up for money lost to keep a chip on their table come 2010. Score one for the company!

 

[Diesel]

HSC for me all the way every day.