ALPA's BLUE RIBBON PANEL, AGE 60 JOKE

[JoeMerchant]

What are your solutions, oh Great Pundit?

What are ALPA's ?

 

[Speedtape]

What are ALPA's ?

Did you show apathy by deserting your obligation to serve the duties of the office to which you were elected? Your solution was to abandon the ship because you only want to ponitificate instead of rolling up your sleeves and working to solve the problems that you like to identify. I along with a lot of other trusting people voted for you. You failed us! You are no better than those you criticize!

 

[JoeMerchant]

Did you show apathy by deserting your obligation to serve the duties of the office to which you were elected? Your solution was to abandon the ship because you only want to ponitificate instead of rolling up your sleeves and working to solve the problems that you like to identify. I along with a lot of other trusting people voted for you. You failed us! You are no better than those you criticize!

No, ALPA deserted me and you. I am more than willing to "roll up my sleeves and work to solve the problems", but ALPA isn't. I supported this MEC and the CMR MEC with the PID filing and OneALPA. I supported this MEC and the CMR MEC with the 2002 BOD resolutions. Neither of these did a d@mn bit of good. Sometimes even ALPA needs a little self help to get it to move. I didn't fail you, your union failed you. I was igored, and had absolutely NO power.

Again Speedtape, what is ALPA's solution to this quagmire? Is it another high priority BSIC?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

No, ALPA deserted me and you. I didn't fail you, your union failed you. I was igored, and had absolutely NO power.

Joe-this is truley pathetic....

This is like Bush saying... I didn't fail you, your country failed you.

 

[CopilotDoug]

Joe-this is truley pathetic....

This is like Bush saying... I didn't fail you, your country failed you.

Joe has a point Rez. On the one hand, you say the only thing you can do is control your immediate actions, which is true. But you and I both know one person isn't going to make a damm bit of difference with all the red-tape involved. You want ALPA to hear your voice? Then you gotta stand on the fence and pull the Union line "Live to Fight Another Day"
The ALPA reps don't want any hardline ballbreakers on the front line. They don't need anybody to muddy the waters because in their eyes, ALPA has too much to lose. Like I said, in theory, a Union is a great idea, it'll never be great in reality, just very watered down.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Joe has a point Rez. On the one hand, you say the only thing you can do is control your immediate actions, which is true. But you and I both know one person isn't going to make a damm bit of difference with all the red-tape involved. You want ALPA to hear your voice? Then you gotta stand on the fence and pull the Union line "Live to Fight Another Day"
The ALPA reps don't want any hardline ballbreakers on the front line. They don't need anybody to muddy the waters because in their eyes, ALPA has too much to lose. Like I said, in theory, a Union is a great idea, it'll never be great in reality, just very watered down.

So if you get more people to think like you... that unions are weak.... then what do you gain?

 

[CopilotDoug]

So if you get more people to think like you... that unions are weak.... then what do you gain?

un-jumble, please

 

[Fred Rogers]

I think people are expecting too much from unions. They can't cure your problems, they can just fight to help you out. Without a union, your company would just give you what ever they felt like. I'm pretty sure it would be way worse than what you have now.

 

[CopilotDoug]

I think people are expecting too much from unions.

I agree. But why do people have these false expectations? Because you have Prater preaching about being the largest Union and having the most resources and this that and the other about how great ALPA is.

They can't cure your problems, they can just fight to help you out. Without a union, your company would just give you what ever they felt like. I'm pretty sure it would be way worse than what you have now.

You're absolutely correct. The company can only give so much, depending on how profitable it is. As you said, if it weren't for representation, management would low ball the pilots every time and send them up a river. BUT, because you do have representation...you're going to get a little more out of the company than what they would offer if you didn't have a Union. Period. That being said, ANY Union can accomplish the same outcome.

When you say "fight" I disagree with that, as I said before, the company is going to GIVE you what the company will GIVE you, at THEIR discretion. ALPA can have all the resources in the world, but they aren't going to the mat to get above and beyond what any other Union could get.

Get your own in-house Union.

 

[Fred Rogers]

Get your own in-house Union.

I think this is a bad idea. We (cjc) are, by and large, a group of people who do not know much about the in's and out's of negotiating a contract or locking up loopholes in an agreement. That being said, we are also a small group who, even if we all contributed 25% of our paychecks, would not have a whole lot of resources at our disposal. That's why I think ALPA is the way to go. They have a lot of experience in "the biz" and they already know what to expect on the road ahead. (I sure don't). Plus they have the resources to back us all up with everything from lawyers to life insurance. I think it's a lot of bang for the buck. If a merger or something like it were to happen someday, they are our best bet to protect us from getting hosed over. I also think they are good for helping us to raise the bar at our company.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I agree. But why do people have these false expectations? Because you have Prater preaching about being the largest Union and having the most resources and this that and the other about how great ALPA is.

So much for any type of self induced responsability. Get off the union welfare tit Doug! You can do it! You can envoke positive change! With all the energy you spend downgrading unions you could actually do some good...

You're absolutely correct. The company can only give so much, depending on how profitable it is. As you said, if it weren't for representation, management would low ball the pilots every time and send them up a river. BUT, because you do have representation...you're going to get a little more out of the company than what they would offer if you didn't have a Union. Period. That being said, ANY Union can accomplish the same outcome.

SWAPA can't do it with out ALPA....

Only ALPA is dealing with the US/EU open skies agreement that will effect every US Air Line Pilot....


Only ALPA addressed Congress last month with flight time duty time and fatigue issues.

ALPA provided the political muscle for FFDO.

When a jet crashes ALPA is invited by the NTSB, even if it wasn't an ALPA pilot flying the jet, to be party to the investigation.

A former FAA Administrator said "ALPA is the conscious of the Air Line Industry"

ALPA is the front line organization nationally and internationally fighting to effect positive cahnge for airline pilots. Not the APA, IPA, NPA, SWAPA, IBT, etc...

Is ALPA perfect? The wunderkind? No way. ALPA has allot of problems...

When you say "fight" I disagree with that, as I said before, the company is going to GIVE you what the company will GIVE you, at THEIR discretion. ALPA can have all the resources in the world, but they aren't going to the mat to get above and beyond what any other Union could get.

No...each fighter brings his/her own talents to the mat.

Get your own in-house Union.

An in house union will only regress your pilot group. Isolationism doesn't work. Not in this global economy. You can pretend that all is well and that market forces won't effect you....

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Originally Posted by Rez O. Lewshun
So if you get more people to think like you... that unions are weak.... then what do you gain?

un-jumble, please

Why are you trying to devaule unions. What are you trying to gain?

 

[CopilotDoug]

Why are you trying to devaule unions. What are you trying to gain?

Sorry, I just re-read your post today and for some reason, I was a little "dyslexic" and couldn't understand it the first time.

Rez, I am not anti-Union. I think Unions could be more effective than ALPA currently is. It's an opinion I am tossing out there, and if enough people agree, maybe it shows it is time for a change. If not, oh well. People have made good points for both sides, and like everything else, it's not cut and dry.

Whether the debate goes one way or the other, I don't think anybody outside of FI land cares. I mean, come on Rez....IT'S FLIGHTINFO. Have fun with it and don't lose any sleep over it.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Rez, I am not anti-Union. I think Unions could be more effective than ALPA currently is. It's an opinion I am tossing out there, and if enough people agree, maybe it shows it is time for a change. If not, oh well. People have made good points for both sides, and like everything else, it's not cut and dry.

I think ALPA can be more effective too. But bashing the organization doesn't work. If you teenager is having problems with grades in school do you bash the person or work the issue?

Whether the debate goes one way or the other, I don't think anybody outside of FI land cares. I mean, come on Rez....IT'S FLIGHTINFO. Have fun with it and don't lose any sleep over it.

The problem is there are allot of guys that read this stuff.... including new guys.. They read the trendy popular agnst, apathy and cynisism and conclude that unions are defunct and have no value.

To effect positive change you have to focus on the issue...

 

[JoeMerchant]

The problem is there are allot of guys that read this stuff.... including new guys.. They read the trendy popular agnst, apathy and cynisism and conclude that unions are defunct and have no value.

To effect positive change you have to focus on the issue...

Agreed. Maybe ALPA should focus on fixing the problems rather than trying to hide them from the new guys. The new guys need to hear about these problems from both sides of the aisle.

Kinda like CSPAN.... good for people to see how these work... warts and all...

 

[John Pennekamp]

Agreed. Maybe ALPA should focus on fixing the problems rather than trying to hide them from the new guys. The new guys need to hear about these problems from both sides of the aisle.

Kinda like CSPAN.... good for people to see how these work... warts and all...

First, ALPA leadership has to admit and recognize that a problem exists. They aren't ready to do that, as seen by the parroting of the party line by too many ALPA reps who don't "get it".

 

[JoeMerchant]

First, ALPA leadership has to admit and recognize that a problem exists. They aren't ready to do that, as seen by the parroting of the party line by too many ALPA reps who don't "get it".

Agreed.... but cut it out. This isn't as much fun as before......

 

[CopilotDoug]

The problem is there are allot of guys that read this stuff.... including new guys.. They read the trendy popular agnst, apathy and cynisism and conclude that unions are defunct and have no value.

What can I say? There will always be a contingent out there who believe the the National Inquirer and Penthouse Forum articles.