Is this possible @ PCL

[Jungle_Jet]

It's absolutely true that pilots were hired at >200 hours and pre-COMM ratings 40 years ago, albeit to fly sideways for 6-10 years. In fact, companies like PanAm would send recruiters to local FBA's to scrounge up new SO's.

I flew with several who did their COMM checkrides in a DC-8.

p.s. It's also true that an RJ is considerably easier to fly than anything with a DC in front of it.

 

[JD2003]

The only problem is that 40 years ago a newhire might fly right seat in a DC-3, not a jet. Regional captains shouldn't have to be CFI's.

Actually, 40 years ago, a newhire prolly rode sideways on the panel but good point, nonetheless...but I don't think the DC3 had autofeather or auto anything for that matter.

 

[Smarta$$]

not like 300 hours more around the pattern would make 'm better pilots...

Yes it would.

 

[Leroy Smith]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyingdutchman
not like 300 hours more around the pattern would make 'm better pilots...

Yes it would.

Especially if they applied themselves and did something other than just fly around the pattern. Why do people think that being a CFI is nothing more than showing up and checking off the boxes on the syllabus? Or that they wont do anything but PPLs? Are they too lazy to really learn instruments to the point where folks will seek them out? Is it because they were trained at a puppy mill and dont know anything different? They think that they are so put upon to have to get 1000+ hrs before flying 50,000lb aircraft at 500mph. Look at some of the recent threads asking if suchandsuch time would be enough to get hired.

Now granted, when you can get a job at a regional with way less time than you can get one risking your life nightly flying checks or car parts in a sh!tty Aztruck, I would probably do the same thing. Seniority is everything. I dont know if I blame the kids (or the grown-ups like me that came into this gig later in life), but if its not their fault, the system is surely broken.

 

[CherryBomb]

Am I the only one that thinks everyone should do a little single pilot, night fieght prior to flying 50 plus people???

 

[N2264J]

That DC-3 was a heck of a lot more difficult to fly (from a stick and rudder standpoint anyway) than an RJ.

One of my Commanding Officers in the Navy said that if you could land a
DC-3 in a crosswind, you could fly anything.

I don't think he was kidding.

 

[pa31capt]

Am I the only one that thinks everyone should do a little single pilot, night fieght prior to flying 50 plus people???

I agree 100%, that is where you really learn a thing or two.

 

[ex j-41]

not like 300 hours more around the pattern would make 'm better pilots...

Would help them learn how to talk on the radio though!

 

[Dorkpilot]

Just talked to a ASA CA in the van the other night doing IOE. His student had 202 hrs upon hiring at ASA.

As for the low flight time. Global airlines have been hiring guys with 200-250 hrs for years. It is just recently that the US is doing it. I would be more concerned with the guys that do just enough than the low flight time alone.

 

[V-1]

Single-pilot freight/charter work is the way to go if you want to improve your piloting abilities. Unfortunately, we all suffer to varying degrees from the "I want it now." mentality. All those hours spent making decisions on your own to keep yourself alive will be wasted however, when you strap yourself into an RJ with a Captain who never did anything before more challenging than flying around a traffic pattern in Florida or Arizona, or repeating "right rudder" while warily watching a level two thunderstorm build on the horizon. You'll likely end up frustrated that you took the road less traveled to build skills that you'll likely never use anymore.

Your Captains will appreciate your skills...that's about it.

That's funny about talking on the radio. Don't know how many times I call the tower to report a midfield downwind for runway XX though.

Today's "regionals" are flying into the busiest airspaces in the world. 250 hour pilots are a liability more than an asset in most cases. As a pilot, I can't blame them for accepting the opportunity given them. I wish the system worked differently.

Time will tell if an increase in accidents/incidents will be enough to stop the business practice of destroying a profession to the point where the best and brightest are no longer interested in pursuing the career because they can do better elsewhere.

 

[CX880]

Well is it such a big surprise that it's come to this? 200 hour RJ pilots? Flight training costs are unreasonably very high, it's not an easy proffesion to begin with and add in the fact that salaries are way down, pilots aren't respected by companies. With the way things are, I'm surprised they even have people showing up with the mins. People are willing moving to the Middle East just so they can have some dignity, it's come to that.

 

[Casper]

CX880,
You are right on the money with that one...

 

[Flyer1015]

People are willing moving to the Middle East just so they can have some dignity, it's come to that.

Hey! Don't knock on Emirates! Lots of US pilots have gone over to EK, and enjoy it. Typhoon_Pilot is one of them.

 

[Dumb Pilot]

Global airlines have been hiring guys with 200-250 hrs for years. It is just recently that the US is doing it.

Yes but not the same really, Cadet programs abroad are a year long with a very strict selection process. The training for first officers are in most cases 40 to 50 sim rides (The short courses for experienced pilots are six months and about 25 sim rides) and in top of that 2 months of LOT (OE for us)
It is NOT the same as "pressure cooking" somebody through

 

[JohnnyP]

.....

Yes but not the same really, Cadet programs abroad are a year long with a very strict selection process. The training for first officers are in most cases 40 to 50 sim rides (The short courses for experienced pilots are six months and about 25 sim rides) and in top of that 2 months of LOT (OE for us)
It is NOT the same as "pressure cooking" somebody through

This isnt totally directed at you, but comparing florida puppy mills to a cadet program overseas. I understand the selection, training, etc is a bit more for the cadet deal, but both the puppy and the cadet are still green with zero real world experience when they hit the right seat (assuming they both went from school right to their respective jet). So whats the difference? I wasnt aware that a good, intense training and selection program can substitute for experience gained in the field.

But, it doesnt bother me that a guy overseas can go right into an airbus at 300 hrs. He/she will learn just like everyone else did. Just like the guys in the states did.

 

[Dumb Pilot]

This isnt totally directed at you, but comparing florida puppy mills to a cadet program overseas. I understand the selection, training, etc is a bit more for the cadet deal, but both the puppy and the cadet are still green with zero real world experience when they hit the right seat (assuming they both went from school right to their respective jet). So whats the difference? I wasnt aware that a good, intense training and selection program can substitute for experience gained in the field.

But, it doesnt bother me that a guy overseas can go right into an airbus at 300 hrs. He/she will learn just like everyone else did. Just like the guys in the states did.

I agree with you, nothing can substitude real world experience but comprehensive training makes all the difference in the world. Having been in training for many years I can tell you that the requirements for the majority of the 121 regional operators are very basic at best, the parameters to sign somebody on the line are such of preparing a voice activated autopilot that operating into complicated airspaces and heavy ground traffic airports for the first few months of operations these guys are more of a burden than help.
By your comment I gather that you think that an individual that does 150 hours of sim training and 100 hours + of OE is not any more prepared than a puppy mill product, I disagree.

 

[Papps]

I think what it comes down to, is that most of us had to fly random crap for thousands of hours just to be able to beg for a regional interview. Now they are handing out jobs to very low time guys who may not even be sure they want to be pilots, they just had wealthy parents and six months to kill for training, so they are "trying out" the regionals. Nothing wrong with it, it just annoys the crap out of us.

 

[Lear70]

for the first few months of operations these guys are more of a burden than help.

Bingo!

Combine that with a real emergency and you've got a recipe for disaster.

Not to mention you'll have new-hire CA's who have probably never seen an RJ beign paired with the low-time new-hires...

God willing, we won't see one of those, but the possibility of it scares me to death. Just told the wife she has to DRIVE down to Destin, simply because none of the surrounding airports are served by mainline service.

NOT putting my family on an RJ at any of the carriers that are practicing this type of hiring.

 

[Papps]

Originally Posted by StuckMic
After 1500 hours, total time has very little impact on a pilot’s ability to act as Captain.

haha thats an awsome quote. Or like the riddle guys from the capt program. something like " people say there is no substitute for experience, we disagree, we don't think experience equals decision making." People are so balls to the wall right after they get out of training.

 

[Lear70]

Originally Posted by StuckMic
After 1500 hours, total time has very little impact on a pilot’s ability to act as Captain.

haha thats an awsome quote. Or like the riddle guys from the capt program. something like " people say there is no substitute for experience, we disagree, we don't think experience equals decision making." People are so balls to the wall right after they get out of training.

I think every single person at AIR, Inc last year (January) snorted their water right out their nose when he got up on stage and quoted that now-infamous line...

I know I didn't stop laughing for 20 minutes or so, and completely missed anything that was said during that time period while a couple other PCL CA's seated nearby and I exchanged some pretty amusing glances along with some rolled eyes.

"Life's hard. It's harder when you're stupid."