Skywest Alpa Drive

[rickair7777]

I got burned hard by alpa and ornstein at my last job...but I like ornstein better because he TOLD me upfront he was going to screw me, and he didn't payroll deduct 2% for the privilege of representing me, and then fail to do so.

I'm very cautiously optimistic about Prater, and am interested in what he has to say...but alpa needs to demonstrate a better track record at some of their sh*tty regionals before I'll vote to give them a crack at my not-quite-so-sh*tty regional.

I really wish an in-house union was practical...seems to work great for APA and SWAPA.

 

[Gr82Aviate]

I got burned hard by alpa and ornstein at my last job...but I like ornstein better because he TOLD me upfront he was going to screw me, and he didn't payroll deduct 2% for the privilege of representing me, and then fail to do so.

I'm very cautiously optimistic about Prater, and am interested in what he has to say...but alpa needs to demonstrate a better track record at some of their sh*tty regionals before I'll vote to give them a crack at my not-quite-so-sh*tty regional.

I really wish an in-house union was practical...seems to work great for APA and SWAPA.

Maybe people should just avoid working for a *(@%$# like JO in the first place, and not try putting the blame for his horrible treatment of employees on ALPA!!

 

[SkyNation]

SkyWest pilots are 'shopping' this the same way most folks shop for a car, a doctor, or just about anything else, in that they're asking people who have 'bought' this particular item what they have to say about it in their experience.

if you asked 10 people about their thoughts on a particular item (car, medical professional, a home builder, etc.) and almost all of them gave a negative review, what would you surmise? what if you asked 100? more?

 

[PCL_128]

Of course there is another way to get ALPA on the property. It could be negotiated by the ASA pilots as part of their Section 6 negotiations.

Actually, ALPA legal has determined that that isn't legal. You can't force a non-union pilot group into a union without a new representational vote. You could certainly negotiate for an integration of the pilot groups, but then a representational vote would have to take place to determine if ALPA would remain as the bargaining agent of the new combined group.

 

[WalterSobchak]

Maybe people should just avoid working for a *(@%$# like JO in the first place, and not try putting the blame for his horrible treatment of employees on ALPA!!

I don't really give a crap about who's union has the bigger wang, and I know this will be completely dismissed because I've never been a line pilot...but I pose this question to your response.

Isn't the whole idea behind a union to protect it's membership from a-holes like JO? Maybe ALPA should protect its membership from guys like JO and then they wouldn't have to avoid being called out for it...?

 

[Exskydiverdrivr]

If you send in your card and don't vote...ALPA automatically counts that as a yes vote.

I thought it was the other way around.

 

[EngineOut]

Maybe people should just avoid working for a *(@%$# like JO in the first place, and not try putting the blame for his horrible treatment of employees on ALPA!!

I'm pretty sure that's not what Rick meant.

 

[NEDude]

If you don't have good, hard working union reps at your airline, no union will be good for you. All ALPA can do is provide the resources for your group, but your group will have to do the work.

 

[Burt Reynolds]

If you don't have good, hard working union reps at your airline, no union will be good for you. All ALPA can do is provide the resources for your group, but your group will have to do the work.

DING DING DING!!!

Unfortunately, ALPA can't do anything other than help to enforce the contract which the pilots came up with themselves. Why then do pilots and their representatives make such crappy contracts? That could be a thread onto it's own...

I'm hoping that the new leadership at ALPA (Prater, et al) can sincerely guide the regionals who are making new contracts or ammending their old ones to create fair and equitable contracts for company and worker alike. This is where I feel ALPA (national) has failed in the past.

 

[Peter Sashell]

Why can't ALPA (national) insist on all contracts having the same work rules. ie.. min days off, per deim rates, duty rigs ect. If they got everyone on the same page then no one would be able to undercut anyone else and any non union groups would see an advantage to joinig.

 

[Ben Dover]

Make sure if you send in your card for information...when a vote comes out and you're not happy make sure you vote.
If you send in your card and don't vote...ALPA automatically counts that as a yes vote.
So if you're unhappy with what you hear, and you sent in for more info...you have to vote NO.

-Just thought I'd throw that in, because believe it or not ALPA doesn't tell you that when they tell you to "fill out your card"
Can you believe they would do that???

Fearmongering really makes you look silly. Why not just stick to the facts.

 

[SkyNation]

maybe because we live in a market driven, capitalist society?

 

[fried chickens]

DING DING DING!!!

Unfortunately, ALPA can't do anything other than help to enforce the contract which the pilots came up with themselves. Why then do pilots and their representatives make such crappy contracts? That could be a thread onto it's own...

I'm hoping that the new leadership at ALPA (Prater, et al) can sincerely guide the regionals who are making new contracts or ammending their old ones to create fair and equitable contracts for company and worker alike. This is where I feel ALPA (national) has failed in the past.

Even a strong union can't do much when the mgmt is hell bent on destroying them. "Fly now, File a grievance later" has become too common place. How long has Mesa pilots been fighting in to have the company follow the contract even after the abitrator ruled somewhat in their favor. How long have PNCL and ASA been in contract talks?

ALPA works great at companys like XJET because mgmt want to work with the pilots

 

[Ponchus pilot]

I really wish an in-house union was practical...seems to work great for APA and SWAPA.

One of the reasons it works for them is that they make a lot more than regionals. 1.95% of dues at a regionals is not enough to properly run a union. The way it works now is that the major airline guys subsidize the little guys.

Also, Swapa and APA do not have the lobby that ALPA has. They do however benefit from it.

 

[HelloNewman]

I see no pro union guy has answered up to the OCs failure to keep the phone line updated. I am not suprised by this at all. Sadly this is the norm of being at an ALPA operated airline. Lots of broken promises and empty statements. When you question the union you get lambasted with cheesy Cliches such as "you are the union". Sorry ALPA but we at SkyWest intend on keeping our 2%. Its a lot better than paying 2% for a crappy magazine and broken promises.

 

[rtmcfi]

I see no pro union guy has answered up to the OCs failure to keep the phone line updated. I am not suprised by this at all. Sadly this is the norm of being at an ALPA operated airline. Lots of broken promises and empty statements. When you question the union you get lambasted with cheesy Cliches such as "you are the union". Sorry ALPA but we at SkyWest intend on keeping our 2%. Its a lot better than paying 2% for a crappy magazine and broken promises.

Nope, no pro-union guy has answered your drivel. However, several hours prior to your post, the line was updated. Typical of you not to let the facts get in the way of your rage. Fire, ready, aim!

Stop pretending to speak for the SkyWest pilots. Are you a sapa rep? Have you taken a poll to find out the SkyWest pilots views? Please stop spouting your idiocy and selling it as the view supported by others.

 

[MYFpilot]

I see no pro union guy has answered up to the OCs failure to keep the phone line updated. I am not suprised by this at all. Sadly this is the norm of being at an ALPA operated airline. Lots of broken promises and empty statements. When you question the union you get lambasted with cheesy Cliches such as "you are the union". Sorry ALPA but we at SkyWest intend on keeping our 2%. Its a lot better than paying 2% for a crappy magazine and broken promises.

New SkyWest Pilot's ALPA Organizing Committee VARS Announcement is up.

Dial 1-888-SKY-ALPA and press 1

 

[~~~^~~~]

Actually, ALPA legal has determined that that isn't legal.

"ALPA legal" told me scope that bound the parent company was "illegal." Then Teamsters did it, the AFA did it and what do you know, Comair did it. It is my understanding that representation was part of the section 6 negotiations that were done at Eagle, Mesa/Freedom, and Chautauqua/Shuttle/Republic/MidAtlantic. I have come to the expectation that ALPA legal practices politics, not law.

You are probably right from a pragmatic view given the size of the SkyWest pilot group. ALPA should have pushed the issue the day the asset purchase agreement was signed, but ALPA was too busy trading ASA flying for "bargaining credits" at the time.

I think the best solution for SkyWest pilots is to join ALPA. However, if they fail to do so, the next best solution is probably for ASA to decertify ALPA. I think ALPA knows this too and this is the real reason why ALPA has decided to not pursue a merger. Again, ALPA legal is representing ALPA, not its members.

If ALPA would represent its members effectively - then this would be a different debate. If ALPA started actually doing something (other than sending money to look like they were doing something) then the SkyWest pilots would see the effective advocacy of the ASA pilots and want to join ALPA. That would be the best solution for all.

 

[SkyNation]

the next best solution is probably for ASA to decertify ALPA.

what are the chances of that?

 

[JoeMerchant]

Actually, ALPA legal has determined that that isn't legal. You can't force a non-union pilot group into a union without a new representational vote. You could certainly negotiate for an integration of the pilot groups, but then a representational vote would have to take place to determine if ALPA would remain as the bargaining agent of the new combined group.

1. Is that what happened at CHQ/Republic and Mesa/Freedom.? I don't recall representational votes after those contracts forced single lists.

2. If you are correct, that could be why ALPA is opposed to forcing the issue in section 6. They may lose ASA with Skywest....