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"Airlines will need 17,000 pilots per year for 20 years."

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atpcliff

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 26, 2001
Posts
4,260
Hi!

http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/avflash/817-full.html#194564

[FONT=arial,helvetica,geneva]Australia Testing New Certification Track For Airline Pilots[/FONT]

da40fly_sm.jpg
There's nothing new about ab initio training programs that start flight students off from zero time with the goal of an airline job. But ICAO, the International Civil Aviation Organization, is now developing that track into a completely separate certification path, with a drastic cut in the required flight time to get to the right seat in a passenger jet. Alteon Training, a Boeing subsidiary, announced this week that it's launching a "beta test" of a training program for the ICAO Multi-Crew Pilot License in Brisbane, Australia. "The world's airlines will need more than 17,000 pilots each year for the next 20 years to fill the seats of the airplanes on order," said Marsha Bell, a spokeswoman for Alteon. "The world needs a better training solution for those pilots." The proposed new track has been in the works for several years, and has attracted some concern from the aviation community. The MPL would require just 240 hours of total time, with 70 hours of that in an actual aircraft, and only 10 hours solo. Current rules require at least 1,500 hours total time. Alteon says its competency-based training program prepares pilots effectively and efficiently through increased use of modern simulation and crew-based training. Cadets will fly Diamond DA-40 airplanes and DA-40 Level 5 simulators.
 
17,000 pilots per year? Did I read that right? That means, if this figure is acounting for retirements or pilots and planes, that the airlines will be ordering and recieving 1700 new planes a year? The world is a big place and from what I hear the major growth will be in asia. What is the US growth planned? Some how I do not believe it will be as great as a shortage as the experts tell us. What I see is some good opportunities popping up in the coming years, followed by our industries dreaded snap back and collapse. I do have to remind everyone, that in teh 60's airlines like NWA were giving hiring contracts to people expecting to get their mulit-commercial. So they were hiring 300 hour pilots when they were starving for pilots.
 
No, Kit Darby says around 7,400. A little less if age 65 happens. Darby's got a pretty good track record at these prognostications and works on a realistic 4% growth average. With the US economy cooling, Majors may not hire as many as even Kit Darby predicts.
 
The worldwide pilot shortage is now being felt in the US. We are seeing the effect of the lower of end of the hiring cycle in the US. See the threads on regional hiring. The upper end of the employers is absorbing the pool of qualified pilots in the US. Soon the experience of the available pilots even for the upper end employers will reflect the thinning of the available pilot ranks. On the entry level, it is happening much quicker than anyone would have imagined. It will spread to the upper end also. Pilots who thought they did not have snowball's change in hell of getting an interview at SWA, FedEx, UPs etc, will be getting interviewed. This will happen by the summer of 2008.
 
Of the 17,000 pilots, Mesa and Republic will be hiring 16,500 of them to fly their 70 seaters with tip tanks over the pond.
Oh the trips will be out and backs.
 
Hi!

THIS year, BY THEMSELVES, Skywest, Eagle and Mesa are trying to hire 2000 pilots. All the other regionals are hiring like mad.

Lots of great airline jobs will be opening up as the legacies begin hiring.

Where will YOU go???

cliff
YIP
 
Hi!

THIS year, BY THEMSELVES, Skywest, Eagle and Mesa are trying to hire 2000 pilots. All the other regionals are hiring like mad.

Lots of great airline jobs will be opening up as the legacies begin hiring.

Where will YOU go???

cliff
YIP


Well, Cliff,.....I'm not going anywhere.

I have more than enough time to go to any regional, but I'm going to do my part to accellerate the pilot shortage. I'm not going to apply to a regional airline until they're desperate enough to raise first pay to livible wage or until they offer a significant signing bonus, (payable over a 12 month period, of course). Quite honestly, I can't AFFORD to leave my little 135 job and go fly for a regional for $19,000/yr.

Oh, and I won't be applying to any regional airlines who ask me to sign a training contract either.

I urge all regional candidates to consider the same (or similar) boycott. Let's see if we can't help accellerate the pilot shortage. Keep your CFI and 135 jobs and WAIT. Patience is a virtue.
 
I think this thread was actually meant to say:

AIRLINES WILL NEED $17,000 PILOTS FOR THE NEXT 20 YEARS!

Those darn F.I. typos.
 
I think this thread was actually meant to say:

AIRLINES WILL NEED $17,000 PILOTS FOR THE NEXT 20 YEARS!

Those darn F.I. typos.

HAH! That just made my night. Gotta love it....
 
Hiring Boom

Sign of the hiring boom, ex USA Jet pilot quits NJ after 2 months, got hired by a major. As far as boycotting the entry level jobs, I believe it is alreardy in progress. It is being driven by economic factors, which is exactly as predicted.
 
Last edited:
I think the threat was mistyped too, I beleive itwas a XJ recreuiting ad that said........

wanted 17 hour pilots, O multi, 0 College, O Instrument
 
The worldwide pilot shortage is now being felt in the US. We are seeing the effect of the lower of end of the hiring cycle in the US. See the threads on regional hiring. The upper end of the employers is absorbing the pool of qualified pilots in the US. Soon the experience of the available pilots even for the upper end employers will reflect the thinning of the available pilot ranks. On the entry level, it is happening much quicker than anyone would have imagined. It will spread to the upper end also. Pilots who thought they did not have snowball's change in hell of getting an interview at SWA, FedEx, UPs etc, will be getting interviewed. This will happen by the summer of 2008.

As much as I usually disagree vehemently with Yip on just about everything, I do think he might have some credibility on this. His original projection for the start of the "hiring boom" was for the spring of this year. How's that panning out? Well, Delta and Continental are already hiring large numbers, and before the end of the year, we will likely see Northwest, United, and possibly USAir hiring. FedEx and UPS are continuing to hire, not to mention all of the LCC carriers. By summer of next year, things will probably look like they did back in '99-'00. Perhaps even better.
 
Well, Cliff,.....I'm not going anywhere.

I have more than enough time to go to any regional, but I'm going to do my part to accellerate the pilot shortage. I'm not going to apply to a regional airline until they're desperate enough to raise first pay to livible wage or until they offer a significant signing bonus, (payable over a 12 month period, of course). Quite honestly, I can't AFFORD to leave my little 135 job and go fly for a regional for $19,000/yr.

Oh, and I won't be applying to any regional airlines who ask me to sign a training contract either.

I urge all regional candidates to consider the same (or similar) boycott. Let's see if we can't help accellerate the pilot shortage. Keep your CFI and 135 jobs and WAIT. Patience is a virtue.

Well can you afford to leave your 135 job to go to a major airline and make 29k your first year? I make a decent wage flying RJ's and I'm based in a place that I want to live....its hard for me to justify leaving for a place like CAL that has crappy bases and will take years to get my pay back to what it is now.
 
Well can you afford to leave your 135 job to go to a major airline and make 29k your first year? I make a decent wage flying RJ's and I'm based in a place that I want to live....its hard for me to justify leaving for a place like CAL that has crappy bases and will take years to get my pay back to what it is now.

You fly for XJT, right? Your bases up until a month ago were the same as CAL, right? Where did you go that was so much better? ONT?
 
A copy of the actual press release from http://www.dailylead.com/
_________________________________________________________________
PR Newswire | 7 days 23 hours 6 minutes ago
Alteon Launches World's First Multi-Crew Pilot License Beta Test
BRISBANE, Australia, Feb. 26 /PRNewswire/ -- Alteon Training, a wholly-owned subsidiary of The Boeing Company announced today the launch of its Multi-Crew Pilot License (MPL) beta test in Brisbane, Australia.
MPL is a new pilot license developed by the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) as an alternative to the traditional approach of training and licensing pilots. It is designed specifically to prepare pilots for their job at an airline. This competency-based training program prepares pilots more effectively and efficiently through increased use of modern simulation and crew based training.
Alteon has been working closely with ICAO, airlines and industry partners to be the first to test this solution that will help address the industry's need for more pilots.
"The world's airlines will need more than 17,000 pilots each year for the next twenty years to fill the seats of the airplanes on order," said Marsha Bell, Alteon vice president of First Officer Programs. "The world needs a better training solution for those pilots. Our beta test will explore efficient and effective improvements in pilot training."
According to the Boeing Current Market Outlook, the market will require more than 27,000 new airplanes to be delivered to the world's airlines over the next 20 years. The Asia-Pacific region will receive 28 percent of these aircraft deliveries through 2025.
The Alteon MPL training program is conducted in a multi-crew environment. Working as a crew of three, the cadets will learn airline discipline and procedures, including Threat and Error Management (TEM) and Line Oriented Safety Audit (LOSA), in every flight lesson as they rotate through traditional captain, first officer and safety officer roles.
The beta test is being conducted in Brisbane, Australia. Alteon selected Airline Academy Australia to deliver the core and basic phase of training using Diamond DA-40 airplanes and a DA-40 Level 5 Flight Training Device equipped with a Rockwell Collins EP-10 daylight visual system.
Participants China Eastern Airlines and Xiamen Airlines helped select the six cadet pilots that began their MPL foundation training in January. Alteon is finalizing arrangements with other airlines from the region to submit six additional cadets to start in March.
"Alteon, along with airlines, regulators and other industry observers, will review the results of this beta test and revise the program as necessary," said Bell. "By sharing and collaborating on data analysis, we hope to further enhance safe and efficient airline operations."
Alteon currently offers training services at nine locations in the Asia-Pacific region, including Brisbane and Melbourne, Australia, Seoul and Gimpo, South Korea; Kunming and Tianjin, China, Tokyo, Japan, Singapore and Mumbai, India.
Alteon Training is the world's preferred aviation training partner and the industry leader in providing airline-focused aviation training solutions. The company provides its partners an expanding and integrated services portfolio that includes flight, maintenance and flight attendant training.
Alteon is a wholly owned subsidiary of The Boeing Company within Boeing Commercial Airplanes' Commercial Aviation Services group. The training organization supports the world's aviation community with more than 80 full flight simulators in over 20 locations around the world.
Alteon Training, LLC CONTACT: Kelli Whaley of Alteon Training, LLC, +1-206-280-8436,
[email protected]; For training inquiries,
[email protected]
Web site: http://www.alteontraining.com//
 

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