UPS tells Airbus to shove their Plastic tail POS

[AV80R]

"Yes, You Did, you invaded Poland"

Huh? I believe last time the French invaded Poland Napoleon was in charge.

However, one could argue the French did start this latest war by protesting so vehemently against the US trying to go all the way to Baghdad to finish the first Gulf war. The Russians, the French and of course the UN all said – liberate Kuwait but no further. Moral of the story, don’t ever listen to the French.

Some nice quotes I googled about France

"France has neither winter nor summer nor morals. Apart from these drawbacks it is a fine country. France has usually been governed by prostitutes." ---Mark Twain

"I would rather have a German division in front of me than a French one behind me." --- General George S. Patton

"Going to war without France is like going deer hunting without your accordion." --- Norman Schwartzkopf

"We can stand here like the French, or we can do something about it." ---- Marge Simpson

"As far as I'm concerned, war always means failure" ---Jacques Chirac, President of France”

"As far as France is concerned, you're right." ---Rush Limbaugh

"You know, the French remind me a little bit of an aging actress of the 1940s who was still trying to dine out on her looks but doesn't have the face for it." ---John McCain, U.S. Senator from Arizona

"You know why the French don't want to bomb Saddam Hussein? Because he hates America, he loves mistresses and wears a beret. He is French, people ---Conan O'Brien

"I don't know why people are surprised that France won't help us get Saddam out of Iraq. After all, France wouldn't help us get the German out of France!" ---Jay Leno

"The last time the French asked for 'more proof' it came marching into Paris under a German flag." ---David Letterman

For the record, I think Airbus is OK, France not so.

 

[ptarmigan]

With all of your engineering experience feel free to post your FAA DER CV or send it to me in a PM. Otherwise I will just assume that it's just your opinion and will treat it as such.

Hind site is a wonderful thing.

Feel free to post the pictures you have a Boeing tail floating in Jamaica Bay.

I see you attack me rather than counter with actual facts. I don't care what you, personally, think, though, take it up with Boeing Flight Safety Engineering if you don't like it. Or will you be requesting their credentials also?

 

[Dizel8]

"Yes, You Did, you invaded Poland"

Try Googleing the above sentence and that is all I got that say about that!

Homer, of the Simpsons, not of the Odyssey, call them "Cheeseating surrender monkeys!"

 

[Bavarian Chef]

I can't believe you no talent a$$ clowns are still arguing over this. Didn't y'all hear there's a recently divorced late thirties sex machine sitting down in the hotel bar just waiting for you to sidle on up. My advice: trim the brows, cinch the girdle up one more notch and add a dash of Black Panther or Blackbeard's Delight -- she's practically beggin' for it!

:beer:

I pronounce this thread closed.

 

[G4G5]

test....

 

[capt. megadeth]

I did/do and it SUCKS! That being said has a better dispatch reliability than any of our Boeings right now.

I haven't heard great things about the 300 but I flew the 320 and it was a nice airplane.

 

[capt. megadeth]

..........

 

[G4G5]

I see you attack me rather than counter with actual facts. I don't care what you, personally, think, though, take it up with Boeing Flight Safety Engineering if you don't like it. Or will you be requesting their credentials also?

Your arrogance is astounding, you make the asinine statement,
"Spoken by someone who is obviously clueless on engineering issues"

Then get offended by my retort. Show us your engineering prose, oh wise one.......
Show us where it was written in a Boeing flt manual not to do anything like this prior to 587?

I love this brilliant display of superior intellect:
" If you had done the same to any Boeing or Lockheed, etc., the same would have happened. Of course, you wouldn't want the facts to confuse you"

Some proof please. When you make a statement, like the tail would have snapped off of ANY aircraft you leave your self wide open. Is that commercial and military aircraft? Or are you Guessing that this would happen only to commercial aircraft (based upon your engineering experience, of course).

Boeing would never in a million years help to defend Airbus. I don't recall ever reading a statement from Boeing advising the public that the tails of their aircraft would come off just like 587's.

I love this :
"This is actually the result of what happens when you come up with a training technique in a non-engineering sim and don't bother to check with the manufacturers (Boeing would have told them it's a bad idea too, in fact, they did when they found out about it!), nor did they check with anyone in aircraft certification that would have also known."


All of the above is hind site, it's a wonderful thing to have at someone else's expense. You can't tell me that with over 12,000 pilots that AA's training videos never got back to Boeing. What you are referring to above is the lawyers running for cover. Not some new post 587 revelation from tech or flt ops (but if it makes you feel better about an Airbus.) No the lawyers of every aircraft mfr (Gulfstream did it to) came up with an amendment to the flight manual to cover their butt's. Don't confuse this with the mfr coming out with a statement that says, Tails WILL come off if you do this, that's only happened to one MFR that I can think of.

No, the intelligent thing to do would have been to design a rudder limiter that actually limits the rudder..................

 

[Bavarian Chef]

I'm normally not that wrapped around spelling, but if you say "hind site" one more time ...

 

[capt. megadeth]

I'm normally not that wrapped around spelling, but if you say "hind site" one more time ...

I'm sorry but that made me chuckle.

 

[AV80R]

Try Googleing the above sentence and that is all I got that say about that!

Got ya:
Favourite scenes in Fawlty Towers

German Guest: Stop talking about the war.
Basil: You started it!
German: No we didn't!
Basil: Yes you did, you invaded Poland.

I guess I was confused at first as I thought this a was good natured France-bashing thread and all of a sudden Poland was mentioned. Nevertheless, great episode.

 

[G4G5]

I'm normally not that wrapped around spelling, but if you say "hind site" one more time ...

Just a guess, you spell rite, right.

 

[Hagar17]

I can't believe you no talent a$$ clowns are still arguing over this. Didn't y'all hear there's a recently divorced late thirties sex machine sitting down in the hotel bar just waiting for you to sidle on up. My advice: trim the brows, cinch the girdle up one more notch and add a dash of Black Panther or Blackbeard's Delight -- she's practically beggin' for it!

:beer:

I pronounce this thread closed.

You're my BOY, Chef!

I've learned to lay down any beverages before reading your posts!

LMMFAO!!

 

[ptarmigan]

G4,

Why don't you do a little research? The manufacturers found out about AA's training after the Airbus upset over Florida. (Now, THERE is an event that you can attack AI over, although the initial cause was from pilot error!). Anyway, none of this is secret stuff, but I'm not going to do all of your homework for you. If you're really interested, here are a couple of pointers:

http://www.house.gov/list/press/ny09_weiner/271004NTSBhearing.html

Look also at the NTSB final on 587, but since you don't seem to want to be confused with facts, I did a google and offer the following snippets from it:

http://www.ntsb.gov/publictn/2004/AAR0404.pdf

As stated in section 1.17.1.2.1, during the May 1997 AAMP Industry Conference, American Airlines’ chief pilot and vice president of flight requested feedback on the program from the Boeing Commercial Airplane Group, the Boeing Douglas Products Division, Airbus, and the FAA. In an August 20, 1997, letter, representatives from these organizations provided their joint response...

and:

The letter addressed six subject areas, including the use of rudder and airplane recovery from upsets. Regarding the use of rudder, the letter stated that “the excessive emphasis on the superior effectiveness of the rudder for roll control vis-à-vis aileron and spoilers, in high angle of attack, is a concern”...

and:
​

On February 6, 2003, American Airlines provided the Safety Board with a copy of a May 27, 1997, memorandum from the company’s managing director of flight operations technical to the company’s chief pilot and vice president of flight. The memorandum stated that the managing director of flight operations technical had “grave concerns about some flawed aerodynamic theory and flying techniques that have been presented in the AAMP.” The memorandum also stated that it was wrong and “exceptionally dangerous”

and more:
​

In addition, the memorandum stated that American Airlines was conducting high AOA training in simulators that did not accurately replicate the behavior of the airplane and was “very likely” to provide a false sense of confidence to pilots. The managing director of flight operations technical suggested that American Airlines take “immediate corrective action to change our training programs and advise our flight crews of the correct nature and danger of rudder inputs at high angles of attack.”

There is a lot more, looking at sim evals of line pilots, etc. Apparently, you have not bothered to read the report, though.

Bottom line, kicking the rudder like they did will result in exceeding the ultimate design load under Part 25. Will a Boeing break? Well, they sure won't tell you it won't, because it does exceed anything they envisioned also. Obviously, airplanes sometimes get away with exceeding ultimate loads, but nobody should bet the farm that one will!
​

 

[SennaP1]

Try Googleing the above sentence and that is all I got that say about that!

Got ya:
Favourite scenes in Fawlty Towers

German Guest: Stop talking about the war.
Basil: You started it!
German: No we didn't!
Basil: Yes you did, you invaded Poland.

I guess I was confused at first as I thought this a was good natured France-bashing thread and all of a sudden Poland was mentioned. Nevertheless, great episode.

Good thing you caught on. :0

Carry On.

 

[AA717driver]

I happen to like the phrase "hind site". As in: I'd like to see the 'hind site' on that 30-something sex machine at the bar... TC

 

[Occam's Razor]

Reading this thread is a waste of time. Can't we get back to discussing airplanes trying to takeoff on treadmills?