How do Mesa and GoJets get pilots?

[gliderguider]

My dad jumpseated on a mesa flight for the first time a couple of days ago and was telling me how depressed the crew were to be working there. The crew told him that 40-60 pilots a month are leaving. They were even asking my dad if the majors would even take Mesa pilots.

My question is, where does Mesa and GoJets even find pilots to work for them. And with all the talk about an upcoming pilot shortage how are these pilots that are leaving being replaced? I've been told that even reputable companies like Eagle and XJT are having a hard time filling classes. How can Mesa and GoJets mgnmt continue to treat their pilots in their current manor when the times have changed and good pilot jobs are becoming much less scarce? Especially with "educational" outlets like FI.com how can anyone be so naive to even apply to Mesa/GoJets? It seems to me that Mesa and GoJets have pretty muched doomed themselves if they continue to operate the way they do unless serious changes are made, or people looking for jobs are really that desperate?

 

[Jack Mehoff]

mesa isn't filling classes lately. They are in danger of not having enough pilots to run the schedule soon.

 

[andym037]

I've often wondered this myself. Why would anyone go to Mesa? Or GoJet?

 

[CX880]

Yea the MAPD pace grads are going straight to training with no interview, must be desperate. I have no idea about gojets, been quiet around flightinfo lately are they even hiring?

 

[apache]

Hojets offers a jet position to those with only 500tt and 50me and certain character requirements. Or lack thereof.

Just my opinion.

 

[Capi_Cafre']

How do Mesa and GoJets get pilots?

Cheese.

 

[dooork]

My dad jumpseated on a mesa flight for the first time a couple of days ago and was telling me how depressed the crew were to be working there. The crew told him that 40-60 pilots a month are leaving. They were even asking my dad if the majors would even take Mesa pilots.

My question is, where does Mesa and GoJets even find pilots to work for them. And with all the talk about an upcoming pilot shortage how are these pilots that are leaving being replaced? I've been told that even reputable companies like Eagle and XJT are having a hard time filling classes. How can Mesa and GoJets mgnmt continue to treat their pilots in their current manor when the times have changed and good pilot jobs are becoming much less scarce? Especially with "educational" outlets like FI.com how can anyone be so naive to even apply to Mesa/GoJets? It seems to me that Mesa and GoJets have pretty muched doomed themselves if they continue to operate the way they do unless serious changes are made, or people looking for jobs are really that desperate?

BS. They asked your daddy if the majors would even take MESA pilots?????
Why do you think 30-40 are leaving...............................going to the majors!

 

[Goose Egg]

How can Mesa and GoJets mgnmt continue to treat their pilots in their current manor when the times have changed and good pilot jobs are becoming much less scarce?

I think that's the key right there. Mesa at least still seems to be stuck in that mid 90's "Most pilots would kill for an interview at a regional, let alone a job offer and Mesa is your one shot at a job with the majors. If you are one of the chosen ones, you should accept immediately without any consideration" mindset. I bet Mesa's management even regards themselves as magnanimous for not making new hires pay $30k for training. But the problem is guys like me; we know there are options other than the majors, and frankly, we're a little less than enamoured with the "airline lifestyle." We are not overcome by SJS, and so we are selective about which jobs we take out of instructing. Guys are getting hired at other places with 500/50, and I've decided to instruct until I have 1200/200.

But I suppose the real reason is that there always be guys that don't want to instruct, or tow banners, or fly traffic, or take part in other ways to build legitimate time, and so they'll be looking shortcuts, and they will find them. They don't always realize that those shortcuts come with a price. We've had a few guys go to X airline with 500/50. That's great if you are trying to avoid instructing, but then you are stuck at X airline while being a turboprop FO making less than $25k for the next 5 years. So I've never really looked at it as a viable option. (Not that there's anything wrong with being a turboprop FO, but I wouldn't want to do it for 5 years!)

Anyway, in answer to the original question, Mesa and Gojets have not adjusted to the current climate because they are poorly managed. But then again, that was our criticism of them all along.

-Goose

 

[rogerwilcoout]

I think that's the key right there. Mesa at least still seems to be stuck in that mid 90's "Most pilots would kill for an interview at a regional, let alone a job offer and Mesa is your one shot at a job with the majors. If you are one of the chosen ones, you should accept immediately without any consideration" mindset. I bet Mesa's management even regards themselves as magnanimous for not making new hires pay $30k for training. But the problem is guys like me; we know there are options other than the majors, and frankly, we're a little less than enamoured with the "airline lifestyle." We are not overcome by SJS, and so we are selective about which jobs we take out of instructing. Guys are getting hired at other places with 500/50, and I've decided to instruct until I have 1200/200.

But I suppose the real reason is that there always be guys that don't want to instruct, or tow banners, or fly traffic, or take part in other ways to build legitimate time, and so they'll be looking shortcuts, and they will find them. They don't always realize that those shortcuts come with a price. We've had a few guys go to X airline with 500/50. That's great if you are trying to avoid instructing, but then you are stuck at X airline while being a turboprop FO making less than $25k for the next 5 years. So I've never really looked at it as a viable option. (Not that there's anything wrong with being a turboprop FO, but I wouldn't want to do it for 5 years!)

Anyway, in answer to the original question, Mesa and Gojets have not adjusted to the current climate because they are poorly managed. But then again, that was our criticism of them all along.

-Goose

lol Could you make it any more obvious that you are scared to go interview for an airline job? lol

 

[TNPILOT]

BS. They asked your daddy if the majors would even take MESA pilots?????
Why do you think 30-40 are leaving...............................going to the majors!

I call BS on that! They're not sending 30-40/month to CAL and I doubt they are sending that many a month to DAL,UPS,SWA,AirTran,or FEDEx. Surely they are sending some but come on.

 

[Goose Egg]

lol Could you make it any more obvious that you are scared to go interview for an airline job? lol

If by that you mean scared to commute to sit reserve, and then make less than $25 for the next 5 years, then yes, I am scared. It would be completly wrong for my life, and it would give me great trepidation to even interview for such a job. If it is the so-called "difficulty" of an airline interview to which you are refering, most of my now airline-employed friends' interviews didn't even require sims; the training was hard, but the interview wasn't. Just because I lack the disposition to be crapped on doesn't mean that I'm worried that I couldn't hack it.

-Goose

 

[snap145]

If by that you mean scared to commute to sit reserve, and then make less than $25 for the next 5 years, then yes, I am scared. It would be completly wrong for my life, and it would give me great trepidation to even interview for such a job. If it is the so-called "difficulty" of an airline interview to which you are refering, most of my now airline-employed friends' interviews didn't even require sims; the training was hard, but the interview wasn't. Just because I lack the disposition to be crapped on doesn't mean that I'm worried that I couldn't hack it.

-Goose

First of all...you only make the crappy $25 for the first year.....after that you have more money then you know what to do with...plus you get to fly a big shiny jet man!!!

 

[MEL'ed]

First of all...you only make the crappy $25 for the first year.....after that you have more money then you know what to do with...plus you get to fly a big shiny jet man!!!

Or a dirty old Turboprop for more than $25 a year.

 

[siucavflight]

If by that you mean scared to commute to sit reserve, and then make less than $25 for the next 5 years, then yes, I am scared. It would be completly wrong for my life, and it would give me great trepidation to even interview for such a job. If it is the so-called "difficulty" of an airline interview to which you are refering, most of my now airline-employed friends' interviews didn't even require sims; the training was hard, but the interview wasn't. Just because I lack the disposition to be crapped on doesn't mean that I'm worried that I couldn't hack it.

-Goose

25 an hour for the next five years? Which regional are you looking at?

 

[gliderguider]

I call BS on that! They're not sending 30-40/month to CAL and I doubt they are sending that many a month to DAL,UPS,SWA,AirTran,or FEDEx. Surely they are sending some but come on.

Yeah I think the F/O on this particular flight was really looking into Republic, and I'd imagine that many of the 40-60 would be trying to get over there as well.

 

[Axel]

...We've had a few guys go to X airline with 500/50. That's great if you are trying to avoid instructing, but then you are stuck at X airline while being a turboprop FO making less than $25k for the next 5 years...

Most people, given the choice, would rather sit in the right seat of a 1900 for $25k than sit in the right seat of a 152 or a Seminole for $15k for any period of time. Make it a Shiny Jet and you'll have to climb a tree to avoid the stampede.

I agree that the time spent teaching provides a better knowledge foundation, but given the choice it's pretty clear which most would choose.

 

[Goose Egg]

25 an hour for the next five years? Which regional are you looking at?

My mistake, what I meant was <$25k/year. Sorry for the confusion. And it was PDT, being stuck as an FO for the next 5 years in the Dash 8. Not that there's anything wrong with being a Dash 8 FO, and not that there's anything wrong with making less than $25k/year for a year or two. It's just that it's just not a situation that I'd want to be in for any longer than that.

Most people, given the choice, would rather sit in the right seat of a 1900 for $25k than sit in the right seat of a 152 or a Seminole for $15k for any period of time. Make it a Shiny Jet and you'll have to climb a tree to avoid the stampede.

Good call. I guess I forgot to mention that I'm making around $25k in my instructing job right now. I think that changes the decision making scenario a bit for me. Oh, and I also forgot to mention that waiting to leave until 1200/200 is not arbitrary. I'm trying to get 135 IFR mins.

In any case, I apologize for the thread creep. I really didn't mean to put my career strategies on display. Mesa and Gojets will find pilots, and I think we all know why.

-Goose

 

[Soverytired]

I've often wondered this myself. Why would anyone go to Mesa? Or GoJet?

S
J
S

(any questions?)

 

[A-V-8]

I cut and pasted this from the MesaHub

Stolen with pride from the MesaHub. Help us get the word out.

OK. So here’s the deal. I have been here for 2.5 years and…. Well let’s not even get into all of the things that I want to say about working here that are funny, legit, or outrageous. This my friend is a cold hard reality.

A major plus for working for a company like Mesa is the fast upgrades. J.O is always bragging to everyone how long someone has to work here before becoming captain. Pay your dues the faithful cry out.

Well I have paid my dues. 2000 hours on the Jet and no upgrade in site. “What” you say. It’s just around the corner. Should be next month or the month after that or 3 or so. Don’t worry. It’s coming because people are leaving here by the dozen. You are wrong.

I am sick of hearing it but the thing that makes me the most sick about the whole matter is the fact that new hires are coming here expecting to be captain very soon. Well for a few in the Dash-8 that is a reality but for those on the jets it is a prison sentence. Let me explain. I am on the CRJ. That means I can’t bid captain on any other equipment except the CRJ or ERJ. My seat lock is permanent except for those two captain positions. Let me reiterate. I can never move form my current position except to CRJ/ERJ captain. My dues have been paid in full and my seniority dictates that I hold captain on the Dash-8 but new hires are jumping right in front of me. I guess I have to pay my dues and theirs.

So. You say that my upgrade is just around the corner. I am very sick of hearing this and it’s really starting to make me mad. Based on WHAT? Go ahead and tell me now. What crystal ball do you have to look into because I ain’t seeing it and folks have been saying it to me for over a year? You are wrong. I pulled out the rosters yesterday to gather evidence to support my point. I was a new F.O. in PHL. Back then captains were upgrading around the 2 year mark. It was very fast. There was a captain who was displaced when I was. She was J4J. She was awarded Captain in IAD. She was the most junior CRJ captain in the whole company. Today there are 16 people below her in IAD (The most junior base) on the CRJ. For a quick review. At the time of this post that was a whopping 18 months ago. There are 79 seniority digits between her and the most junior CRJ captain today. At that rate I will have hit 5.5 year mark before I can hold captain on the CRJ. The ERJ is somewhat closer to me in seniority but who even knows what is up with that system.

I thought that it would be better to get this out in here instead of having it out with someone the next time they tell me that my upgrade is just around the corner. If you intend to say that to someone please have some facts to back it up. Furthermore. Please let this nasty little secret out of J.O. bag so that new hires will know what they are facing. Loooooooooooooooooong upgrades. No justifiable reason to put up with it unless you live in one of our domiciles. Mesa does not have fast upgrades. Blast it everywhere. It is a fact. Choke off the new hire pipeline with the truth but most importantly please stop saying it unless you have something to back it up.
Thank you for your time

Poo

 

[Rottweiller]

First of all...you only make the crappy $25 for the first year.....after that you have more money then you know what to do with...plus you get to fly a big shiny jet man!!!

Its not a big shinny jet - it's an RJ for christs sake!!

 

[snap145]

Its not a big shinny jet - it's an RJ for christs sake!!

sorry next time ill put the big SARCASM icon on there to make it easy for you...and if you think an RJ is not big when youve been flying 152's and Seminole's your on crack.....

 

[Shrek]

If by that you mean scared to commute to sit reserve, and then make less than $25 for the next 5 years, then yes, I am scared. It would be completly wrong for my life, and it would give me great trepidation to even interview for such a job. If it is the so-called "difficulty" of an airline interview to which you are refering, most of my now airline-employed friends' interviews didn't even require sims; the training was hard, but the interview wasn't. Just because I lack the disposition to be crapped on doesn't mean that I'm worried that I couldn't hack it.

-Goose

First year no matter what airline you will have to deal with low pay and QOL. If a person isn't willing to suck it up for awhile then I guess this industry is NOT for you.

 

[WSurf]

BS. They asked your daddy if the majors would even take MESA pilots?????
Why do you think 30-40 are leaving...............................going to the majors!

Then why aren't they upgrading?

 

[Slice121]

Then why aren't they upgrading?

It's a mix of Captains going to majors and many FO's lateraling over to SKW and Republic.

 

[Goose Egg]

Scratch what I said about the 200 multi. I'll be hangin' around for 1200 total though.

-Goose

 

[time builder]

disregard.

 

[LearLove]

My dad jumpseated on a mesa flight .....


They were even asking my dad if the majors would even take Mesa pilots.

I'm gonna have to call BULLSH!T on either you or your dad on this one.

 

[skyking96]

Hojet pilots

GoJet airlines = rejected pilots. They offer jobs to those with violations and who have been fired from other jobs. I know this is fact.

 

[bustinmins]

I call BS on that! They're not sending 30-40/month to CAL and I doubt they are sending that many a month to DAL,UPS,SWA,AirTran,or FEDEx. Surely they are sending some but come on.

You can score me as one former Mesa guy to make it to a major. It happens more than you think. For the record, I crashpad with two other "former" Mesa guys. I know of three others who have been hired in the last few months and additionally one Mesa guy I know is headed to UPS.

Say what you want - Mesa got me where I am along with a healthy dose of networking.

I would say that they are appearing to be in huge trouble right now...and a lot of people are bailing laterally. Republic and Skywest are actively recruiting in Mesa domiciles - Good on them!

 

[cale42]

At the risk of being seriously flamed.. I'll bite on this. All I can do is share my personal experiences and thinking of why I'm at Mesa.

However I first want to be clear that Mesa and GoJets are nothing alike. GoJets shortcutted a union contract and was a true scab airline. Mesa is not well liked in the industry.. but it is not nearly the same as working for GoJets.

My background just to save the questioning is that I flight instructed for 2 years and had 1100 TT and just over 100 multi when I started interviewing. I will be living out West and so I focused all my interviewing on regionals with western crew bases. This basically means Horizon, Skywest, Mesa, and Great Lakes. Great Lakes was out.. because you never have a chance to move out of turboprops and the pay is truly bad. So I focused on the other 3; Horizon wouldn't interview me, Skywest did, but didn't offer me a job.. I can't speculate on why, as there is no real feedback.. however this was 6 months ago before they were real short (only 2 of 7 in my interview group were hired). So that left Mesa, who offered me a spot on the 1900(I wanted the Dash). So I had the option of going with Mesa or starting the process all over and accepting a commute to the East Coast. I went with Mesa.

So thats how I got here, now why I stay here and likely will. Basically all regionals have big issues and always will.. its part of the industry. Some are better, some are worse they are all regionals. There was a great thread on here the other day of a regional bitching about how management disprespects, they never get more than minimum days off and they have lousy schedules.. anyone wanna guess who it was.. SURPRISE, it was Republic. Anyway, some of the good parts of Mesa, especially on the turboprop side.
-I have never sat reserve.
-I'm the top FO in base, I haven't worked a weekend in 4 months.
-I will upgrade in the 1900 as soon as I choose.
-That upgrade will mean I make as much as even the best paid second year FO's while logging turbine PIC.
-I personally don't have too bad a commute(4 hrs door to door).
-Jet upgrades are running around 3 years right now and as somebody pointed out earlier in the grand scheme that isn't that bad.

Bad Parts of Mesa
-Lots of disgruntled people
-Bad labor-management relations.
-Awful scheduling.. you get beat on when you do work.


Like it or not Mesa is probably around to stay. They have been a profitable airline and survived the downturns. They need to treat their pilots better and hopefully the next contract will help with that.. however the fact of the matter is that they are one in a sea of regionals that scrape by on a wing and a prayer. I hope too put in my time and move on, hopefully it will be fewer rather than more years.

Anyway.. I want to point out that there a LOT of pilots at Mesa that are great people, great pilots, well informed on the issues, work with the union to improve things and know what they are getting into.

SO thats my 2 cents on how Mesa gets pilots.

cale