Details of Comair's TA

[~~~^~~~]

Within a percent or two - here is the damage. I'm sure others will clean up my post as I don't have much time to post anything long:

70 Seat Pay down 12.5% (FO down 13%) = roughly SkyWest
90 Seat pay is 70 seat plus 2%
50 Seat Pay down 7.5% = Between SkyWest and Mesa

COLA at 1.5% beginning on 08

Profit sharing based on Company's profitability/margin limited to 5% of pay in 07

Per Diem $1.55

Short Call reserve 90 minutes, then 9 hours and 12 hours

Deadhead at 75% unless part of initial line construction

Preferential Bidding under Carmen system

401K Match = 2% until year 10. Then 3%. (= Mesa's until year 10)

No uniform allowance

$82.5 million bankruptcy claim held by ALPA and distribution to be determined by the Comair MEC

Scope:

• Maintain current 70 seat aircraft (15) fleet
• Maintain 90% of current CRJ200 fleet
• Minimum of 40% of all new flying to be awarded to Comair through 2/08
• Minimum of 30% from 3/08 to 3/09...
• Delta held to agreement

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My take - it stinks. However, the fact Delta is now a party to an agreement with the Comair pilots is an important distinction. Further, the future growth guarantees appear to be a good use of scope language to secure new growth.

Now when your airline's negotiating committee says binding the parent company to the contract and forcing them to commit to growth is impossible - the correct response is "wrong" and here is your example.

I say kudos to the Comair MEC who must have had to battle ALPA as much as management to secure this scope language. If ALPA wants to sign up the SkyWest pilots then they have to push for an equal percentage of new SkyWest flying to be awarded to ASA commensurate with our percentage contribution when we were purchased. When the SkyWest guys learn that a collective bargaining agreement can shape the future growth of an airline without a tie in to concessions, they will want some of what ALPA has to offer.

Comair's growth means probably little new flying for ASA while Mesa goes cheaper and E170's go to Shuttle/Republic, but what the heck, kudos to Comair anyway.

 

[amcnd]

I wonder if Delta will wait to release the RFP tell this gets voted in? Or if they will say sorry those 30 planes are gone already!! "Maybe next round".

 

[FightingIrish]

Thanks Fins. Anyone know how the profit sharing works? Am I reading it right that it could be as high as 5% of your pay?

 

[~~~^~~~]

Supposably the RFP was already awarded months ago and DL is waiting for the vendors to make the announcements. However, this seems to be the World's best kept secret ....

I'm betting those 30 RJ's are going to be Comair's.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Thanks Fins. Anyone know how the profit sharing works? Am I reading it right that it could be as high as 5% of your pay?

Yes, the company's margin * your pay. It can be deferred to the 401K to avoid taxes.

 

[clarkwgriswald]

Don't forget all of that "possible" fleet growth becomes null and void should comair be sold.

 

[Old Crow]

Why not just quit and go to work for MESA...

 

[wanagethi]

mesa has the worse work rules in the industry

 

[generaltso]

When does this go to vote?

 

[Tomct]

Don't forget all of that "possible" fleet growth becomes null and void should comair be sold.

Dang, you beat me to it!! This is bad news for everyone involved! Good Luck Comair folks.

 

[surplus1]

Don't forget all of that "possible" fleet growth becomes null and void should comair be sold.

Don't put too much negative emphasis on that detail. Anyone that buys Comair will undoubtedly demand and be offered certain guarantees from Delta as a condition of the purchase.

There is no reason to buy Comair if Delta can take away the flying.

The real danger is who would buy it. My own preference would be no buyer, but and IPO similar to the CO spinoff of XJT - without Delta's retained ownership of the airframes. When Delta emerges from bankruptcy it could most likely realise a lot more money from an IPO than a sale to another company.

Comair can do much better on its own than as a subsidiary of anyone else.

 

[surplus1]

I wonder if Delta will wait to release the RFP tell this gets voted in?

Not picking on you, it's only a coincidence that you were the 1st to mention the RFP gimmick.

Give this RFP a little more thought. With respect to CMR it's a total sham. Delta owns CMR lock, stock and barrel. The books are co-mingled. How can CMR realistically "bid" on anything that is controlled totally by Delta, which totally controls Comair?

With respect to CMR, RFP's are a complete farse - Delta bidding against Delta for Delta business. Is there any logic at all to the idea that Delta would allow someone to outbid Delta for its own business?

Don't forget that Delta has to pay what ever external company it awards flying to - a profit margin. When CMR flies any profit margin goes directly to Delta's bottom line, not to SKYW or CHQ or MES. They may be SOB's but they ain't that stupid.

When ASA flys, who do you think gets any 'profit' they might earn? I guarantee you its not ASA; it's SKYW Holdings.

Not even CMR mangement knows how much money CMR makes or loses. Only Delta knows that, and the 'profits' or 'losses' are whatever Delta says they are; so, BTW, are the 'costs'. It's all a corporate shell game. Comair has no 'books' of its own.

They will place those airplanes where they want to place them, but RFP's from CMR have nothing to do with it.

You might also consider that those 12 -700 transfered to SKYW are really no mystery. That's a part of the SKYW purchase of ASA - old news. Why would Delta buy 12 new airplanes to give to SKYW and spend 280 million dollars, when all it had to do was transfer 12 of the airplanes that it already owned? That transaction was a done deal before the bankrupcy scam at CMR began.

 

[goodpilotithink]

Within a percent or two - here is the damage. I'm sure others will clean up my post as I don't have much time to post anything long:

70 Seat Pay down 12.5% (FO down 13%) = roughly SkyWest
90 Seat pay is 70 seat plus 2%
50 Seat Pay down 7.5% = Between SkyWest and Mesa

COLA at 1.5% beginning on 08

Profit sharing based on Company's profitability/margin limited to 5% of pay in 07

Per Diem $1.55

Short Call reserve 90 minutes, then 9 hours and 12 hours

Deadhead at 75% unless part of initial line construction

Preferential Bidding under Carmen system

401K Match = 2% until year 10. Then 3%. (= Mesa's until year 10)

No uniform allowance

$82.5 million bankruptcy claim held by ALPA and distribution to be determined by the Comair MEC

Scope:

• Maintain current 70 seat aircraft (15) fleet
• Maintain 90% of current CRJ200 fleet
• Minimum of 40% of all new flying to be awarded to Comair through 2/08
• Minimum of 30% from 3/08 to 3/09...
• Delta held to agreement

-------

My take - it stinks. However, the fact Delta is now a party to an agreement with the Comair pilots is an important distinction. Further, the future growth guarantees appear to be a good use of scope language to secure new growth.

Now when your airline's negotiating committee says binding the parent company to the contract and forcing them to commit to growth is impossible - the correct response is "wrong" and here is your example.

I say kudos to the Comair MEC who must have had to battle ALPA as much as management to secure this scope language. If ALPA wants to sign up the SkyWest pilots then they have to push for an equal percentage of new SkyWest flying to be awarded to ASA commensurate with our percentage contribution when we were purchased. When the SkyWest guys learn that a collective bargaining agreement can shape the future growth of an airline without a tie in to concessions, they will want some of what ALPA has to offer.

Comair's growth means probably little new flying for ASA while Mesa goes cheaper and E170's go to Shuttle/Republic, but what the heck, kudos to Comair anyway.

Why would u post this on here?

 

[~~~^~~~]

Because people want to know and it provides useful information for other airlines' pilots who are in contract negotiations? Why should it not be posted? Is it a secret amongst 3,000 friends of a secret society?

At any rate, it is better than I thought it would be and Parker at US Airways probably deserves some credit. I think the light has finally gone off in Delta's mind and they realize Comair is an ASSET to be built up. Delta management is going to have to create value for the creditors and until US Air put pressure on them, they had no impetus to increase the value of Comair.

It shows what a complete sham the Comair bankruptcy was. It was entirely the whim of managers who saw an airline and its employees as a case study, like they ran back at Harvard, with no human or customer cost. It was a game.

I sure hope Comair's pilots out the other side of the storm - there are some huge holes in the scope, but it is an important step in what appears from the sidelines to be the right direction for our profession.

But I'm really curious - why would we not want to discuss such an important event? This board runs for 10 pages every time a pilot gets arrested, which effects none of us. Comair's scope probably effects all of our negotiations going forward.

 

[Texx]

Anyone that buys Comair will undoubtedly demand and be offered certain guarantees from Delta as a condition of the purchase.

There is no reason to buy Comair if Delta can take away the flying.

The real danger is who would buy it. My own preference would be no buyer, but and IPO similar to the CO spinoff of XJT When Delta emerges from bankruptcy it could most likely realise a lot more money from an IPO than a sale to another company.

Look at the protection that SKY INC picked up in their deal for ASA.

Keep an eye on SKYW INC's cash and equity position. Very strong and that usually means one of two things. Takeover bid, because of the large amount of cash on hand, or about to make a large purchase.

IPO, right now I would say they would be better off selling off, from a $ position, than doing an IPO.

The gates in CVG. Who controls the gates? CMR or DAL?

Just my 2 cents.

How's the golf game Dick?

 

[surplus1]

Look at the protection that SKY INC picked up in their deal for ASA.

Keep an eye on SKYW INC's cash and equity position. Very strong and that usually means one of two things. Takeover bid, because of the large amount of cash on hand, or about to make a large purchase.

IPO, right now I would say they would be better off selling off, from a $ position, than doing an IPO.

The gates in CVG. Who controls the gates? CMR or DAL?

Just my 2 cents.

How's the golf game Dick?

Golf isn't my 'thing' -- but fishing is great and so is life. Your 2 cents are worth a nickle.

SKYW is doing very well for itself at the moment. Their ability to take Delta to the cleaners in the ASA acquisition isn't something that bothers me - I have no love lost in Atlanta and they got a he!! of a deal. Today however, Delta isn't in such dire straights.

Anything is possible and SKYW might well have the bucks to buy Comair. However, I doubt Delta would see them as a 'prefered' buyer for the simple reason that it would give SKYW too much leverage and help to defeat the 'portfolio concept' - too many eggs in one basket, so to speak. I doubt Delta wants to see any of its 'feeders' get strong enough to say 'no' once in a while. They've been there, done that and it cost them billions to buy out of it.

Apart from that, SKYW already has its hands full with the ASA union and they don't have the advantage of bankruptcy. If the ASA guys don't lose patience and continue to hold out, the day will come when they get a release. That will bring Utah into the real world. Poetic justice so to speak.

Add CMR to that equation and SKYW management would be more than likely to get its cumuppance down the road. So far Delta, despite its best efforts, hasn't been able to 'break' the CMR union. SkyWest is no Delta.

It is no secret that the ASA and CMR pilot groups are friends. Put us on the same property, even if separate, and you've instantly created an army that outnumbers the contingency of 'yes' men from SLC. I doubt SKYW management wants to risk that.

I agree that right now an IPO is a non-starter - it's just my personal 'wish-list' preference. However, after Delta emerges from Chapter 11 (and Comair with it) the possibility becomes much more practical.

Delta didn't know how to run a regional airline before it bought ASA & later CMR, and after 7 years of trying they not only haven't learned, it's gotten worse (typical for Delta).

Comair people do know how to run a regional airline and there are enough of them that might still be available if CMR is ever freed from the DAL chains. Put the right team back together and we could likely give anybody a run for their money. The only thing that has ever held Comair back is the ignorance of the ATL head shed.

A couple of sinister thoughts:

The chance to link-up with ASA might be well worth the excitement of being purchased by SkyWest and getting to sing in the tabernacle.

Another opportunity (of lesser interest) might be the opportunity to take on JO. I'd love to see somebody give that sucker what he deserves.