Comair MEC recall...

[wrigley23]

Rates still better than SkyWest with the new deal?

No. Although very close across the board only Comair 50 FO is slightly higher. 50 CA, 70 CA, and 70 FO are either identical or slightly lower than Skywest according to the comparison provided.

I agree that ALPA negotiators did about all they could and protected the majority of the pilots at Comair which are 50 seat guys (I use the term protect losely, 8% paycut as opposed to higher cuts the company had proposed). However what really hurts are the 70 and 70+ rates. They are really, really bad, thanks to the "industry average", ie Skywest and Mesa. That being said, at least there are scales, there is a 50,70, and 70+ scale for captains and fo's, when the company wanted only three, a 50 CA, 70+ CA and one FO scale.

 

[V-1]

Not entirely pleased with it either...however:

It is a significant improvement over what 50% + 8 voted "Yes" for just a year ago.

There is a bankruptcy claim of $82.5 million attached to the T.A. That could be a significant amount of money to sweeten the deal...even if sold for less.

F.O. rates are closer to 60% of Captain rates than they were before.

Longevity is restored by 2011...not great, but better than the judge allowed.

Not a great deal by any stretch of the imagination, but a significant improvement over what half the pilot group agreed to in the recent past....and still better than the lowest compensated DCI pilots out there.

 

[staylow]

Who said I don't have a vested interest?

YOU may not have a vested interest in Comair. In fact based on your profile you really don't have a "vested interest" in anything. However, JC and a whole lot of other people do. It's spelled s-e-n-i-o-r-i-t-y!

Life is full of hard knocks and this is one of them. Nevertheless, reality cannot be ignored. When you get to where you have a "vested interest" in something you'll figure that out.

What are you talking about? What? Easy...sir...please step away form the KoolAid...I believe it has impaired your judgement. Pssss...can I have a little taste? (Hear me laughing...)

 

[AuburnRedneck9]

I'm not taking a shot at ComAir and I am not unsympathetic to their situation however it's about time to stop the bleeding. Along that line of reason didn't our new ALPA president run on a platform which essentially encompassed a theme of no more give backs or paycuts. I would never wish unemployment on anyone but I sincerely hope that he never signs another concessionary contract, especially one at CA where you guys do a good job and make money. You don't deserve this but caving in won't make this situation any better. Our pilot group can't get motivated to earn a good contract, we basically can't get the job done so I don't have much room to talk. However, I sincerely hope that our new ALPA president steps up to the plate and refuses to sign a concessionary deal. If you could strike I'd walk the picket lines with you.

On a side note I have some time invested in ASA and I would rather strike than take what the company has been offering. Surplus I'm glad you care about yourself, seniority and investment in CA I can appreciate that but what about your obligation to the business and the ranks of pilots that will follow you? Degrade it and get what you can out of it that's the attitude that will be the end of this career. That goes for the hardcore coolaid drinking senior pilots at ASA, you're not the only one who thinks that way.

 

[172driver]

It amazes me how the same pattern is repeated over and over again, almost verbatim. I thought maybe Comair would break it, but it sure doesn't sound like it's going to happen.

All I hear is tough talk until the company budges an inch, then it's justification and rationalization of why it's acceptable. I can hardly believe I heard a Comair pilot (I assume) say

....and still better than the lowest compensated DCI pilots out there.

Unbelievable. From the highest compensated to well, at least we're not the lowest.

 

[bvt1151]

It amazes me how the same pattern is repeated over and over again, almost verbatim. I thought maybe Comair would break it, but it sure doesn't sound like it's going to happen.

What? Exactly how is Comair supposed to break the cycle? Management has been given the ability to impose the contract, and the judge has made any work action (or talk of one) illegal. The Comair pilots effectively have their hands tied yet were still able to significantly improve over their last TA. No other airline that has substandard contracts (ASA, Skywest, Pinnacle, etc...) has anywhere near the limitations Comair does, and yet they're the ones complaining about Comair's inability to "hold the bar."

The recent TA is a HUGE win for pilots. You will not see any other imposed contract coupled with a strike injunction improve over the last voted offer.

Congrats to the Comair pilots. It was a huge feat, even though not everyone can see it.

 

[veneratio]

Strike Strike Strike

 

[N2264J]

You don't have a say pops, you're out. Worry about your aarp benefits!

You know, Surplus can impart more pertinent information in one paragraph than you have in 1,600 acrimonious screeds.

People are actually dumber for reading your crap.

You hang around the regional board reminding everybody that you're a 767 pilot because you have serious self esteem issues. Isn't that true?

 

[DrewBlows]

Strike Strike Strike

Ratings: ATP, CFI, CFII, MEI, ERJ-145

Most people are more subtle when they want to take your job.

 

[ohplease!]

I'm not taking a shot at ComAir and I am not unsympathetic to their situation however it's about time to stop the bleeding. Along that line of reason didn't our new ALPA president run on a platform which essentially encompassed a theme of no more give backs or paycuts. I would never wish unemployment on anyone but I sincerely hope that he never signs another concessionary contract, especially one at CA where you guys do a good job and make money. You don't deserve this but caving in won't make this situation any better. Our pilot group can't get motivated to earn a good contract, we basically can't get the job done so I don't have much room to talk. However, I sincerely hope that our new ALPA president steps up to the plate and refuses to sign a concessionary deal. If you could strike I'd walk the picket lines with you.

pretty easy for him to say since every one of the majors has taken huge cuts already and he heads an organization that couldn't care less about its regional groups.

As far as your last sentence here: they can't strike and WE WON'T be released. Not that it ever did but, ALPA has no backbone to stand for anything (especially at regionals), its been riped out by the courts (lawyers again)

 

[V-1]

It amazes me how the same pattern is repeated over and over again, almost verbatim. I thought maybe Comair would break it, but it sure doesn't sound like it's going to happen.

All I hear is tough talk until the company budges an inch, then it's justification and rationalization of why it's acceptable. I can hardly believe I heard a Comair pilot (I assume) say Unbelievable. From the highest compensated to well, at least we're not the lowest.

Since you chose to quote my post, I'll respond.

It appears that the opportunity to strike one day out of bankruptcy (without a release to strike from the NMB) is not available to ALPA. If it were, the union would have a significant amount of leverage...and I suspect there would either be a significant amount of movement in negotiating position by the company, or a strike would occur. The Comair pilot group has done it in the past (who else has?).

You infer the company budged an inch. Have you even read the T.A. yet? The bankruptcy claim alone has the potential to pay, on average, over $51,000 to each Comair pilot. That alone has the potential to be a SIGNIFICANT improvement over any previous contract modification. If nothing else, it may help some Comair pilots in their efforts to move on to other opportunities.

When whoever you work for (if you do, in fact, actually fly for a living) files bankruptcy, I hope you can achieve the same or higher level of improvement over the company offer your bankruptcy judge approves that the Comair group has. Until then, continue to sit on the sidelines and scream obscenities at the players while everyone around you wonders why the stadium operator just had to offer a large discount to everyone who showed a photo of their trailer house to the ticket agent.

Is the T.A. great? Of course not. I don't believe anyone thinks it is. I for one would like to maintain everything achieved by the Contract 2001...I'd even settle for Contract 2001 modified by the 2005 L.O.A. (with snapbacks in place). The reality is the bankruptcy judge has erased those achievements. With the opportunity to strike likely to be several years away, if ever, it's likely wiser to salvage through the ashes to pick up as much as you can. There will be future battles to fight.

1. The T.A. is substantially better than what the company may impose.

2. The T.A. is substantially better than what Comair pilots voted to accept (by eight votes) a year ago.

3. The negotiators were able keep F.O. wages at 59.7% of Captain wages... in all equipment...pretty close to the 60% they fought very hard to achieve many years ago.

4. Longevity will be restored...albeit eventually.

 

[surplus1]

It's also spelled R-E-T-I-R-E-M-E-N-T!!

Enjoy the shuffleboards, viagra, and bright Florida sunshine old man!
The cmr boys and girls will vote as they see fit! You don't have a say pops, you're out.
Worry about your aarp benefits!

737

It appears from your posts that you think I am harboring some big dark secret to which you are privy and just chomping at the bit to reveal, so let me help you (and anyone else who cares).

1. Yes, I am a retired Comair captain. No, I don’t regret it.

2. Yes, I am extremely proud of having had the privilege to serve with every Comair pilot that I’ve had the pleasure of meeting – and happy that (to the best of my knowledge) you were not among them.

3. Although retired, I am still extremely interested in any and everything that affects Comair pilots and I try to stay abreast of what’s going on. The fact that I personally have nothing to gain or lose from the future of CMR pilots does not alter that, and will not alter it for as long as I’m around. If that bothers the likes of you, I truly do not care.

4. I do worry about the welfare of Comair pilots and would gladly do anything that I could to improve it. Being retired hasn’t altered that and isn’t going to. What you think or don’t think about that is, quite candidly, irrelevant.

5. My real name is R.H. (Dick) de Lagarde. I’m proud of that as well and have nothing to hide from the likes of you or anyone else. I don’t care to know your name – I’m picky about the people I associate with, and pleased that I do NOT know who you might be.

6. I am also a former Chairman of the Comair MEC. Of itself I do not think that is important, but just in case you didn’t know that terrible secret I thought you should – I wouldn’t want to leave you with only a partial revelation. I am very proud that I once had the privilege of trying, directly, to serve the best interests of all Comair pilots, to the best of my ability, and I think I did a pretty good job of it, even though many CMR pilots might disagree. Whatever you might think or anyone else at your airline might think, doesn’t matter one iota to me now and never has.

7. While I was an active pilot I never tried to tell Comair pilots how they should vote about anything, and I don’t now. When I have an opinion or something to say, which is often, I say it. If I choose to argue for something, I do. When I choose to argue against something, I do that too. Those who might agree are free to do so. Those that don’t are equally free to disagree. YOU aren’t going to change that. I say again: What you think is irrelevant – you’re not a Comair pilot; I am – and for that I am grateful. And BTW, for the record, I do know more about collective bargaining than you do.

8. Yes, I do enjoy the Florida sunshine. Florida has been my home for more than 50 years. I live in Orlando – by choice. I like it, and I enjoy being retired. Please don’t visit – I prefer pleasant folks.

9. I do worry about my grand kids, who is POTUS and my AARP benefits, among a lot of other things of lesser importance. I don’t use Viagra as yet. If and when I should need it, your advice will not be a factor. BTW, I don’t play shuffleboard either; I prefer deep-sea fishing – it gives me a place to sit, and prevents me from showing my arse as often as you do.

10. Since I’m sure you need some measure of satisfaction from your post -- I don’t like you, I’m tired of your snide remarks, and I think you’re a spoiled brat. In other words a schmuck who belongs where he is. I’m sorry that the rest of your pilot group has the misfortune of so many members that are just like you. But, again, I’m pleased that you’re not a Comair pilot and we don’t have to endure you. If you were, I would consider taking up a collection and paying you to leave.

I do hope that satisfies your simple mind, but I’m sure it won’t. The next time you open your mouth I have no doubt that you’ll put your foot in it once more. Now you have a nice day little boy. Take another look in the mirror – I’m confident you can impress yourself at least one more time; you deserve to wallow in your own image.

 

[surplus1]

V-1

Good post.

 

[surplus1]

You know, Surplus can impart more pertinent information in one paragraph than you have in 1,600 acrimonious screeds.

Thanks N2264J,

I always need all the help I can get.

Surplus1

 

[paid4training]

dam surplus1 you forgot....

"I'm Rick James beautch...." lol

 

[Troy208]

It appears from your posts that you think I am harboring some big dark secret to which you are privy and just chomping at the bit to reveal, so let me help you (and anyone else who cares).

1. Yes, I am a retired Comair captain. No, I don’t regret it.

2. Yes, I am extremely proud of having had the privilege to serve with every Comair pilot that I’ve had the pleasure of meeting – and happy that (to the best of my knowledge) you were not among them.

3. Although retired, I am still extremely interested in any and everything that affects Comair pilots and I try to stay abreast of what’s going on. The fact that I personally have nothing to gain or lose from the future of CMR pilots does not alter that, and will not alter it for as long as I’m around. If that bothers the likes of you, I truly do not care.

4. I do worry about the welfare of Comair pilots and would gladly do anything that I could to improve it. Being retired hasn’t altered that and isn’t going to. What you think or don’t think about that is, quite candidly, irrelevant.

5. My real name is R.H. (Dick) de Lagarde. I’m proud of that as well and have nothing to hide from the likes of you or anyone else. I don’t care to know your name – I’m picky about the people I associate with, and pleased that I do NOT know who you might be.

6. I am also a former Chairman of the Comair MEC. Of itself I do not think that is important, but just in case you didn’t know that terrible secret I thought you should – I wouldn’t want to leave you with only a partial revelation. I am very proud that I once had the privilege of trying, directly, to serve the best interests of all Comair pilots, to the best of my ability, and I think I did a pretty good job of it, even though many CMR pilots might disagree. Whatever you might think or anyone else at your airline might think, doesn’t matter one iota to me now and never has.

7. While I was an active pilot I never tried to tell Comair pilots how they should vote about anything, and I don’t now. When I have an opinion or something to say, which is often, I say it. If I choose to argue for something, I do. When I choose to argue against something, I do that too. Those who might agree are free to do so. Those that don’t are equally free to disagree. YOU aren’t going to change that. I say again: What you think is irrelevant – you’re not a Comair pilot; I am – and for that I am grateful. And BTW, for the record, I do know more about collective bargaining than you do.

8. Yes, I do enjoy the Florida sunshine. Florida has been my home for more than 50 years. I live in Orlando – by choice. I like it, and I enjoy being retired. Please don’t visit – I prefer pleasant folks.

9. I do worry about my grand kids, who is POTUS and my AARP benefits, among a lot of other things of lesser importance. I don’t use Viagra as yet. If and when I should need it, your advice will not be a factor. BTW, I don’t play shuffleboard either; I prefer deep-sea fishing – it gives me a place to sit, and prevents me from showing my arse as often as you do.

10. Since I’m sure you need some measure of satisfaction from your post -- I don’t like you, I’m tired of your snide remarks, and I think you’re a spoiled brat. In other words a schmuck who belongs where he is. I’m sorry that the rest of your pilot group has the misfortune of so many members that are just like you. But, again, I’m pleased that you’re not a Comair pilot and we don’t have to endure you. If you were, I would consider taking up a collection and paying you to leave.

I do hope that satisfies your simple mind, but I’m sure it won’t. The next time you open your mouth I have no doubt that you’ll put your foot in it once more. Now you have a nice day little boy. Take another look in the mirror – I’m confident you can impress yourself at least one more time; you deserve to wallow in your own image.

Amen Captain, Thank you.

 

[surplus1]

Amen Captain, Thank you.

At your service, sir.

 

[DGdaPilot]

Well said. Comair was once very close to my heart and I still have friends there. Glad I'm not there to have to endure this, but also glad that they seemed to pull something decent out of the bankruptcy shadow.

 

[InclusiveScope]

It appears from your posts that you think I am harboring some big dark secret to which you are privy and just chomping at the bit to reveal, so let me help you (and anyone else who cares).

1. Yes, I am a retired Comair captain. No, I don’t regret it.

2. Yes, I am extremely proud of having had the privilege to serve with every Comair pilot that I’ve had the pleasure of meeting – and happy that (to the best of my knowledge) you were not among them.

3. Although retired, I am still extremely interested in any and everything that affects Comair pilots and I try to stay abreast of what’s going on. The fact that I personally have nothing to gain or lose from the future of CMR pilots does not alter that, and will not alter it for as long as I’m around. If that bothers the likes of you, I truly do not care.

4. I do worry about the welfare of Comair pilots and would gladly do anything that I could to improve it. Being retired hasn’t altered that and isn’t going to. What you think or don’t think about that is, quite candidly, irrelevant.

5. My real name is R.H. (Dick) de Lagarde. I’m proud of that as well and have nothing to hide from the likes of you or anyone else. I don’t care to know your name – I’m picky about the people I associate with, and pleased that I do NOT know who you might be.

6. I am also a former Chairman of the Comair MEC. Of itself I do not think that is important, but just in case you didn’t know that terrible secret I thought you should – I wouldn’t want to leave you with only a partial revelation. I am very proud that I once had the privilege of trying, directly, to serve the best interests of all Comair pilots, to the best of my ability, and I think I did a pretty good job of it, even though many CMR pilots might disagree. Whatever you might think or anyone else at your airline might think, doesn’t matter one iota to me now and never has.

7. While I was an active pilot I never tried to tell Comair pilots how they should vote about anything, and I don’t now. When I have an opinion or something to say, which is often, I say it. If I choose to argue for something, I do. When I choose to argue against something, I do that too. Those who might agree are free to do so. Those that don’t are equally free to disagree. YOU aren’t going to change that. I say again: What you think is irrelevant – you’re not a Comair pilot; I am – and for that I am grateful. And BTW, for the record, I do know more about collective bargaining than you do.

8. Yes, I do enjoy the Florida sunshine. Florida has been my home for more than 50 years. I live in Orlando – by choice. I like it, and I enjoy being retired. Please don’t visit – I prefer pleasant folks.

9. I do worry about my grand kids, who is POTUS and my AARP benefits, among a lot of other things of lesser importance. I don’t use Viagra as yet. If and when I should need it, your advice will not be a factor. BTW, I don’t play shuffleboard either; I prefer deep-sea fishing – it gives me a place to sit, and prevents me from showing my arse as often as you do.

10. Since I’m sure you need some measure of satisfaction from your post -- I don’t like you, I’m tired of your snide remarks, and I think you’re a spoiled brat. In other words a schmuck who belongs where he is. I’m sorry that the rest of your pilot group has the misfortune of so many members that are just like you. But, again, I’m pleased that you’re not a Comair pilot and we don’t have to endure you. If you were, I would consider taking up a collection and paying you to leave.

I do hope that satisfies your simple mind, but I’m sure it won’t. The next time you open your mouth I have no doubt that you’ll put your foot in it once more. Now you have a nice day little boy. Take another look in the mirror – I’m confident you can impress yourself at least one more time; you deserve to wallow in your own image.

As usual, very well said. I'm afraid 737 Pylt is no match for you.....

 

[172driver]

When whoever you work for (if you do, in fact, actually fly for a living) files bankruptcy, I hope you can achieve the same or higher level of improvement over the company offer your bankruptcy judge approves that the Comair group has. Until then, continue to sit on the sidelines and scream obscenities at the players while everyone around you wonders why the stadium operator just had to offer a large discount to everyone who showed
a photo of their trailer house to the ticket agent.

Is the T.A. great? Of course not. I don't believe anyone thinks it is. I for one would like to maintain everything achieved by the Contract 2001...I'd even settle for Contract 2001 modified by the 2005 L.O.A. (with snapbacks in place). The reality is the bankruptcy judge has erased those achievements. With the opportunity to strike likely to be several years away, if ever, it's likely wiser to salvage through the ashes to pick up as much as you can. There will be future battles to fight.

1. The T.A. is substantially better than what the company may impose.

2. The T.A. is substantially better than what Comair pilots voted to accept (by eight votes) a year ago.

3. The negotiators were able keep F.O. wages at 59.7% of Captain wages... in all equipment...pretty close to the 60% they fought very hard to achieve many years ago.

4. Longevity will be restored...albeit eventually.

I do, in fact, fly for a living. The company I spent the last four years at did file BK. The pilots first voted to freeze my pay at $37, then voted to slash my pay to $31. Only due to the backbone of the FA's were they able to negotiate anything. That company, as you may have guessed, was Comair. Believe me, I understand the issues and hung in there through much of the battle, unfortunately.

The company I now work for (NJA), while I will never say never, has very little chance of going bankrupt. They also seem to know how to treat people, employees and customers alike. And...we have a very strong and effective union.

LOA 2005 I understood. The company was sliding, we were being whipsawed, we had a charismatic new leader who made a lot of promises, and we knew we were eventually going to take a hit. We tried to minimize the impact while securing some stability and growth. In hindsight, it was a big mistake, and made me want to fight that much harder for the snapbacks, to the death of the company and my job, if necessary.

LOA 2006 made me sick. Our MEC threw the company's first and final offer to us and wrung their hands. No leadership, no guidance, no recommendation, just parroted the company's fear tactics. That was unacceptable to me and when I lost respect for both my peers and my leaders at Comair, at least the slight majority of them.

I had hoped the FA's would save us. They did for a while. When Comair filed the 1113 on us, I started looking for other work. I knew neither ALPA nor our pilot group had the balls to fight it all the way. You may or may not have won an appeal on the injunction. You may or may not have been able to strike in a couple months when Delta emerges. We'll never know, as I suspected.

1. The TA is better than what the company can impose, agreed. Therefore, one must ask oneself why the company made this offer. If ALPA truly had no leverage, why would the company give at all?

2. Agreed. No credit due the pilots, ALPA, or the negotiators for that one though. That was the FA's all the way.

3. That is a bright spot for sure. Although, 70 FO's took it pretty hard.

4. Yeah, 6 years after it was taken away. Enough said.

I wish you all nothing but the best and hope it works out for you but would have loved to see the sham BK process tested in a higher court. Your comment about cheering from the sidelines was accurate. Maybe if I were still there I would see it differently, but I guess I chose to leave because I can't.