CAL vs XJT

[CVG72]

Please help me understand why does it make sense to take a job at CAL. BF got the call today... He will make peanuts for so long, it will be a while before he gets his current XJT salary and has that type of schedule. I would like to know why is it so much better, at this point, when the hiring has been going on for a while to move to CAL. I just want opinions. If you explain all this to anyone NOT in the industry, for them it's a no brainer.. stay with the regionals. Isn't it risky too with the risk of merging?

He has waited so long for this. Now that the call is here, maybe he'll get the SWA call too....

 

[minrest]

who the heck is BF?

 

[GogglesPisano]

I don't work for CAL but I'll throw in my 2 c. He has hit a ceiling at XJT (assuming he is a CA.) Once he does achieve parity at CAL his income will only go up. The hiring has been going on for almost 2 years but with the retirements and annual growth of around 5% prospects are still good for a newhire. There are also nontangibles like overnighting in Europe and flying heavies that he will never see at XJT -- or SWA for that matter.

 

[capt. megadeth]

who the heck is BF?

Uh, like, I think he means best friend....get with the, like program!

 

[GogglesPisano]

Is he just a BF, or a BFFL?

 

[CVG72]

hey thanks, that makes sense. seems like he miss the good hiring window though. So what does it mean then... He will be in IAH for a while, on reserve, making less than the guy working at mcdonald's?

 

[Mr Hat]

Upgrade time at CAL is also going to be like 3 years on the 737.....That really makes up for lost wages as a first year guy.

 

[superrav]

to bad he wasnt an intern....

 

[Palomino]

Please help me understand why does it make sense to take a job at CAL. BF got the call today... He will make peanuts for so long, it will be a while before he gets his current XJT salary and has that type of schedule. I would like to know why is it so much better, at this point, when the hiring has been going on for a while to move to CAL. I just want opinions. If you explain all this to anyone NOT in the industry, for them it's a no brainer.. stay with the regionals. Isn't it risky too with the risk of merging?

He has waited so long for this. Now that the call is here, maybe he'll get the SWA call too....

i came from XJT. it was a bit daunting to give up the comfy schedule and decent money. however...

• i'm having a good time at CAL. good crews, equipment, and overnights all over the globe available.

• i'll be close to my former income within a short time frame (~3 years on the 737). but...2nd year pay is not exactly devastating. 1st year pay is tough for all. if a person gets a widebody then you would be about 90% of your former pay by the 2nd year at CAL. and lots of people are getting 756 or 777 as newhires.

• CAL doesn't feed anyone. XJT's stability will always be tied to the mainline carrier that they serve...whoever that may be in the future.

• growing at a nice rate with lots of retirements

• reserve lasts just a few months for 737 newhires

• international flying

• great equipment

• retirement: 12.75% B fund that we will build on in future agreements

• the contract we have now is abysmal. there's only one way to take it from here...up, up, and up. we will fix a lot of the problems with a stronger pilot group and better leadership in place.

• CAL provides many different types of flying and trips to choose from. it's definitely a nice change from the RJ flying which became all too familiar.

i think a lot of XJT folks have become comfortable with their quality of life and income level. it is a nice life for any XJT Captain with 5+ yrs of seniority and i understand the dilemma of giving that up. but with decades of time to catch up and far exceed anything XJT can offer - i think CAL would be a great move as long as the movement continues.

just my 2.5 cents worth...

 

[jonjuan]

There are also nontangibles like overnighting in Europe and flying heavies that he will never see at XJT -- or SWA for that matter.

Nontangibles? Doesn't XJT fly to Canada and Mexico? Is the cockpit in the 757/767 that much bigger than the 737? What about the [sic] nontangible of a possible merger at CAL which could decimate the bottom of the seniority list? If that happens, good luck scrambling to find a job, especially with very little turbine PIC. My 2c is to wait for the SWA call if he doesn't care about flying heavies or spending a night in Europe 7 time zones away before turning around. Also, you might not want your boyfriend to commute. If this is the case, hope you enjoy the NYC or IAH areas. SWA (WN) has many more bases to choose from. Personally, I can't believe this isn't more important than the future chance of flying a heavy to Berlin or Paris for the night.

 

[CVG72]

well he is waiting for the SWA call. Friday right? This is helpful, for me to understand this. you know, i think this is a better place to ask all these questions and be stressed about it. The last thing I want to do is induce more stress on him.

will he be based in IAH for a while? Any chance he'll get to CLE quick? I am sure there are plenty of posts of CAL new hire bases and all that but if you don't mind answering....

 

[Skychief]

I think it depends on your situation as to weather or not it makes sense to go to CAL. I left XJT on 8 year pay...definitely making good money.....but I was CLE based and if I had stayed at XJT I would still be on reserve or at the very best holding a relief line with 12 days off a month and 75 hours of pay....At CAL, I am holding a line, with 15 days off a month and 92 hours of pay....so the difference in hours helps lessen the sting of the paycut.....but the quality of life is much better....I can't remember what the numbers are, but I think my break even point is around 5 years (this could be off a little....I forgot what it was once I got hired).....I still have 28 years left in this industry (more when retirement age changes), so in the long run, I will make much more money at CAL.....also, for me, I was ready for a change....just sick and tired of 5 leg days (yes, I know this is still possible at CAL, but far less often)...I also felt that CAL could offer me & my family more job security in the long run....only time will tell on that, but that was my gut feeling.

Skychief

 

[CVG72]

thanks! I guess in the long run, yes. But if they merge, then he gave up this huge stability. XJT has a lot going on right now.

 

[tie1on]

if you are scared, just stay where you are. hope you enjoy the rj as long as it stays within magt plans. if not have fun back with a turboprop

 

[Skychief]

thanks! I guess in the long run, yes. But if they merge, then he gave up this huge stability. XJT has a lot going on right now. Maybe the unknown is just scary. But how do they say this: you got to take risks to be successful.

Really, it is just a roll of the dice....who knows what will happen.....personally, I think that even if there are mergers (eventually it will happen), in my opinion, the number of retirements will protect all those involved....of course those on the bottom portion of the list are at much more risk, but, staying at XJT has its risks as well....what would happen to XJT if CAL merged with UAL? There would certainly be some reduction in required feed due to overlap and whatnot......what if the branded flying & charter flying don't work out and CAL cuts more XJT capacity? Lets face it, the 50 seat RJ market is already saturated (as is evident by XJT's lack of ability to gain an agreement with another airline). Yes, sometimes you do need to take risk to be successful.....the question is, what is more risky, staying at XJT or going to CAL? The answer of course is "ask me 1 day after I retire". My high school history teacher always said "look at the forest, not the trees, see the big picture"......for me, the big picture has CAL being much more stable than XJT (even with a merger), a better QOL at CAL, and making much more money at CAL....again, only my opinion.


Skychief

 

[CVG72]

yeah... thanks for taking the time to explain. Still crossing my fingers for the SWA call this friday. That would definitly be a no brainer. i guess CAL is also a no brainer. thanks for all the opinions.

 

[TNPILOT]

thanks! I guess in the long run, yes. But if they merge, then he gave up this huge stability. XJT has a lot going on right now.

Yes XJT has a lot going on right now, but as an XJT employee there are still many questions. Will the branded/corp. be successful? Will CAL reduce the flying it contracts with XJT further? Personally I think the new ventures XJT takes on will only be marginally successful, not a failure, but not exactly the next best thing. I also believe that CAL will in all probability reduce XJT's flying further. Just look at the Q400 Colgan flying in EWR for 2008. I assume your BF is CLE based? If so will that base be reduced even further? Probably so, the slow death will continue.

The truth is, the question marks at XJT are much greater than many are willing to admitt. Any semblance of stability could very well be a facade. Ask some Indy Air guys what they would do. The truth is there is little stability in this industry whether at a regional or a legacy, however the career outlook at a regional is far less. Yes it may take him a few years to recoupe his money but what maybe 5 years? You have to think longer term than that. I'd be willing to bet on a more prosperous career at CAL than any regional these days. In my opinion the health of a legacy and that of a regional are directly inverse of one another. As the legacies become more stable, which most agree they are these days, the regionals will become less and less stable as competition for fewer and fewer capacity purchase agreements become more cutthroat.

After all that has happened at XJT over the course of the past 18 months how could you possibly stay? Do you think this is the last time our future will be in question? We are only now realising the reality that many other regional pilots have known for a few years.

 

[Hose A. Jiminez]

You dont want to stay at a commuter.

 

[CAL EWR B737]

My two cents:

Why does the majority think we will work under this POS contract forever. Times are changing we have for the first time at CAL in less than two weeks:

1: New Strong Union leadership that includes for the first time ever EWR and IAH representatives that are hard core and no push overs.

2: We will now be able to use the ALPA tool box (the reason I fought so hard to bring ALPA on property). Previous MEC Contact 02 was incompetent with no balls.

3: The combination of all the new pilots all the retirements and all the pilots living under contract 02 POS unified and ready to fight for a real contract.

4: Strong economic negotiating environment.

The four items above are a first in my twenty year career at CAL and have the make up of the perfect storm. I personally believe we have the opportunity for a FEDEX or UPS Plus contract. Will we take advantage and accomplish our goals only time will tell?

If I was a betting man and I am my money is on us succeeding!

 

[minrest]

I don't understand how SWA weighs into the conversation. Are you saying that he has interviewed there and is waiting for the call (presumably Friday) or that he has an application on file and might someday get an interview?

At the end of the day, he can sit in a dark corner like jonjuan and scare yourself into thinking there will be a merger that will decimate the seniority list. Unwarranted fear if you ask me, or he can take the job that he applied for and actively pursued at CAL and get on with life.

One piece of advice that I will offer is that if this is your boyfriend (I still don't know what bf means), then if you are hoping for any kind of long term relationship you better let him pursue his dream (sound like CAL) and accept the fact that he may not have any extra cash to spend in the long run.

Sometimes you have to roll the dice and CAL vs XJT really isn't that big of a gamble.

-minrest

 

[densoo]

will he be based in IAH for a while? Any chance he'll get to CLE quick? I am sure there are plenty of posts of CAL new hire bases and all that but if you don't mind answering....

While newhires aren't getting directly into CLE on their first assignment at the start of training, they are bidding in pretty quickly. The junior pilot in CLE for March is a 12/06 hire.

 

[SteelerMan]

Yes, the cockpit on the 75/76 IS that much bigger.

 

[CAL EWR B737]

Good point on the mergers.

Yes a merger could happen at any time and it wouldn't surprise me.

However two things I have been told expect to date and have never come to fruition in my twenty year CAL career:

The Mother Of All System Bids

The Merger Announcement That Always Seems To Be Imminent

Ask one of the Expressjet pilots of the infamous Shindlers List or the 113 who turned down CAL numbers to stay at Expressjet. My guess is if they can admit it out loud, they deeply regret their decision.

To say this is the end of our hiring boom to is the same as saying if your in the 113 group above and stayed at Expressjet because you didn't want to be on reserve at CAL in GUM or EWR for years. You can't predict the future but you can take an educated guess and in my humble opinion even with the eventual change of age 60 we are no where even near the end of this hiring boom at CAL.

 

[CVG72]

cool, i think this thread explains it. yes, he did interview at SWA and is waiting for the call on friday. when it rains, it pours... good to FINALLY have options I think! He used to be all excited about CAL but now, he is not as much. I think that he has waited for this for so long and seen everybody and their cousins get the call before him, he is sort of numb.

 

[The Regulator]

Take it from me, former XJT now CAL, go to CAL. Its not perfect but in the long run you will make A LOT more money at CAL. Better flying and seniority is moving up fast. I have been at CAL for a year and my second year pay is only $5 per hour less than what I was making at XJT as an 8 year Captain.

Plus XJT may be a sinking ship. I hope for their sake its not, but I am glad I got out before the shake up began.

 

[propjob27]

Did your "bf" get into this career hoping to retire at 65 as a commuter airline pilot making 70 to 80 grand a year??

Jesus H, quit and go to CAL or SWA, whoever hires her first.

 

[Mr Hat]

Well, now SWA....thats a whole new animal! If he gets hired there thank your lucky stars and go out for a big fat steak dinner!

 

[propjob27]

Steak dinner? Yeah, the "bf" can get one on an Omaha layover.

Screw that. Tell her to go Mr. C's and bang a drunk stewardess named Lance or Bruce.

 

[CAL EWR B737]

Well, now SWA....thats a whole new animal! If he gets hired there thank your lucky stars and go out for a big fat steak dinner!

Why not a steak dinner for getting hired at CAL? I think CAL will have higher pay and retirement in the long run or at the very least the same. This isn't the same old CAL.

Also after eight years and 5000 hours on the 737 if I had to fly it for another twenty four years I think I would be miserable.

My two cents

 

[ewrord]

If you think CAL will have higher pay than SWA anytime soon, I have some oceanfront property to sell you in Arizona. There is no comparison between a company that has made profits for 30 years and one which has been through two (almost three) bankruptcies. There is also no comparison between the pilot groups. CAL's pilots have yet to prove that they can go out and negotiate an industry leading contract.