30 in 7 question

[Prop Trash]

Does the 30 in 7 rule apply to scheduling only? I.E. you can fly more than 30 hours in 7 days as long as you were scheduled to fly less (good to start, good to finish). OR is it a hard limit, kind of like the 16 hours of duty rule.

 

[caneylane]

As long as your schedule does not have you exceeding the 30/7 when you begin that particular day, you can legally exceed it. 16hr duty is a hard rule though.

 

[spg2bmd]

They cant schedule you for it, but if you overblock on the 7th day, you are good.

 

[spg2bmd]

Also, you can do it if they really really need you...

 

[ImbracableCrunk]

As long as your schedule does not have you exceeding the 30/7 when you begin that particular day, you can legally exceed it. 16hr duty is a hard rule though.

I'd be careful about that statement.

Say you're schedule to fly Monday thru Friday, scheduled close to 30/7. If you overfly on the first couple of days, and you get a reschedule somewhere in the middle, then you have to re-examine the whole thing over with the actual+scheduled for 30/7.

Eg: You'll be 30/7 on Friday, but you get a reschedule on Wednesday, you need to fix the 30/7 issue before you can fly again after the resched on Wednesday.

Or that's the way I hears it. . .

 

[bustinmins]

The 30/7 is "legal to start legal to finish" on the last day. You may not exceed the 16 hour duty limit at anytime. If you over flew your scheduled block the first few days of your trip then your totals for the 7 days may exceed 30 hours on your seventh day. If you start the 7th day of flying and your totals were scheduled to end with less than or equal to 30 hours, then you're good to go. In this instance, if you get delayed for some reason on the last day - you can exceed the 30 hours but not the 16 hour duty rule. If you are going to exceed the 30/7 limit on your last day, then you need to amend your schedule by dropping a leg or a round trip etc.

 

[Soverytired]

ALPA may suck when it comes to a lot of things, but they have the DEFINITIVE handbook on duty time/flight time rules.

Go to ALPA.org and download the *.pdf. Then carry it around with you.

 

[greyhound]

Question?

What about this case?

SCHEDULED flight time:
Mon-Fri= 6 hours daily (Scheduled for 30)
By thursday your ACTUAL flight time= 25

Can you start friday if your actual (25) plus your next day scheduled time (6) will exceed 30?

 

[rjacobs]

Dont think so in that example. If you know you will exceed 30 you cant go because you know you will not be legal to finish. Legal to start, legal to finish means as long as you took off at say 29 hours for a 1 hour blocked flight you were legal to start legal to finish, but if that flight ended up going 130, you were still good because you didnt know it was gonna take that long. However if you had 29 hours and your last flight was blocked 1:30 you were not legal to start legal to finish. You gotta look at your last 6 days of flying(actual block times) to make the determination.

 

[ERJFO]

I don't think thats right... A trip doesn't need to be modified if on the first 2 days you flew over block enough to make you exceed 30/7 on the last day. If they change your pairing (AKA rescheduling you) or your next trip comes into conflict you are not legal to start.

 

[caneylane]

No, you cant start friday if at the beginning of that day your SCHEDULE says you will exceed 30. You would have to be rescheduled before your first flight that day to a SCHEDULE that says your block on paper will not bring you over that 30. Remember, this is a rolling clock which you must look back on day by day. Now, if you were rescheduled prior to starting Friday to something on paper that had you finishing 29:59 or below at the end of friday, then you may go over 30 that day(delays, ground stops, holding).

 

[bustinmins]

The 30/7 is "legal to start legal to finish" on the last day. You may not exceed the 16 hour duty limit at anytime. If you over flew your scheduled block the first few days of your trip then your totals for the 7 days may exceed 30 hours on your seventh day. If you start the 7th day of flying and your totals were scheduled to end with less than or equal to 30 hours, then you're good to go. In this instance, if you get delayed for some reason on the last day - you can exceed the 30 hours but not the 16 hour duty rule. If you are going to exceed the 30/7 limit on your last day, then you need to amend your schedule by dropping a leg or a round trip etc.

Of course, if you fly on FAR 121 Supplemental, there is no 30/7 rule. Only the 24/7, 100hrs/mos, 1000/yr apply along with required rest per crew make-up etc. I'm not going to go into that here because I'd have to read it then recite it.

 

[trainer8]

What about this case?

SCHEDULED flight time:
Mon-Fri= 6 hours daily (Scheduled for 30)
By thursday your ACTUAL flight time= 25

Can you start friday if your actual (25) plus your next day scheduled time (6) will exceed 30?

This thread is already too long, but I can't resist.

Bottom line: Legal to start (scheduled), legal to finish (actual block).

You finished Thursday at 25 you you must add your 6 hours of scheduled flying now for Friday to see if your "legal to start" on Friday. Legally you may not start Friday with 6 hours in the schedule because it will exceed 30 hours. Notify Crew Sched, and I'm sure they will modify your trip to make you legal.

T8

 

[Soverytired]

This thread is already too long, but I can't resist.

Bottom line: Legal to start (scheduled), legal to finish (actual block).

You finished Thursday at 25 you you must add your 6 hours of scheduled flying now for Friday to see if your "legal to start" on Friday. Legally you may not start Friday with 6 hours in the schedule because it will exceed 30 hours. Notify Crew Sched, and I'm sure they will modify your trip to make you legal.

T8

Ding ding ding! Yeppers.

Now, what happens if you finish Thursday with 24, start Friday with 6 scheduled (so you're 100% legal to start) . . . . and the day goes great, until

. . . . your second leg, you divert due to weather. Get some more fuel a divert airport XYZ, and continue to your original destination.

Is this a "modification to your schedule", requiring a recalc of Legal/start-legal/finish?

(I know the answer, just trying to blow the mind of the noob)

 

[trainer8]

Ding ding ding! Yeppers.

Now, what happens if you finish Thursday with 24, start Friday with 6 scheduled (so you're 100% legal to start) . . . . and the day goes great, until

. . . . your second leg, you divert due to weather. Get some more fuel a divert airport XYZ, and continue to your original destination.

Is this a "modification to your schedule", requiring a recalc of Legal/start-legal/finish?

(I know the answer, just trying to blow the mind of the noob)

"Legal to start....legal to finish.....

T8

 

[SSDD]

Saying that you can't start if you're going to go over 30 is not quite accurate. If its a multileg day, you can start, but they'll have to drop a round trip, or something during the day to keep it legal.

 

[caneylane]

I was under the impression your schedule must have you under 30 before the first flight of that day.

 

[trainer8]

Saying that you can't start if you're going to go over 30 is not quite accurate. If its a multileg day, you can start, but they'll have to drop a round trip, or something during the day to keep it legal.

Read the previous posts...intervention on the part of Crew Sched was mentioned. Only after they interveen can you continue to fly the rescheduled trip.

T8

 

[Soverytired]

"Legal to start....legal to finish.....

T8

Mostly . . . my understanding is that as long as the flight number remains the same for the added flight, you're good to go. However, if the flight number is changed, this is considered an amendment to your schedule, so you have to re-calc everything from that point.

 

[ImbracableCrunk]

Saying that you can't start if you're going to go over 30 is not quite accurate. If its a multileg day, you can start, but they'll have to drop a round trip, or something during the day to keep it legal.

I would say that they have to make a change before you can start flying that day.

 

[caneylane]

Check it out. There is a reason they came up with legal to START, legal to finish. You cannot legally start the day that would put you over 30/7 on paper. This is why your schedule must be adjusted BEFORE the first flight of the day. Its not legal to start and lets see if we underblock a couple of legs. Once this schedule adjustment is made and it shows you below the 30/7, you may start the day and go over the 30(Delays,Deicing,etc). Same with calender month and year. Only hard rule is the 16 hour rule(Cant even deadhead legally if it puts your duty over 16 hrs).

 

[Carl_Spackler]

It is also important to remember that if scheduling tells you "you're good to go", that actually negates 30/7, 100/month, 1000/year, 16hr duty. Above all, trust your scheduler, their ticket is on the line as well and they won't lead you into an illegal assignment.

 

[trainer8]

It is also important to remember that if scheduling tells you "you're good to go", that actually negates 30/7, 100/month, 1000/year, 16hr duty. Above all, trust your scheduler, their ticket is on the line as well and they won't lead you into an illegal assignment.

I hope your not serious. Just this week I questioned an re-scheduling assignment. I was put through to a supervisor. We haggled it out, and I stood my ground, insisting that our present re-assignment would, in my view violate FAR regs. He insisted the company was correct--that he was correct. I deferred to his supervisory position and continued under protest.

After pushing back from the gate, we received an ACARS message from Dispatch asking us to not take-off and return to the gate. Seems after some research, the supervisor changed his mind. A Company investigation is now in progress to prevent such "happenings" from re-occuring.

T8