Forecast for recalls, hiring, pension benefits if NPRM issued

[Flopgut]

If it's purely an issue of ending discrimination, then NOTHING has been accomplishished! It's still an age Fogey, How do you not understand that, and do you know how foolish that makes you sound?

This is a re-finance on the total dollars pilots make with a windfall going to one group, that's it! It's not even a bump up in pay. In fact, it will denude the possibility of raises from consideration for a long time.

 

[Flopgut]

Is there a single benefit for a pilot that wants to retire at 60 that could possibly come from this?

Edit: Post retirement age change: Junior pilots who want to retire at 60 are expected to take a several hundred thousand dollar hit so today's senior pilots don't have to retire at 60 with a several hundred thousand dollar hit?!

WTF? How stupid are we suppose to be for this to make sense?

 

[Tejas-Jet]

IF the NPRM is issued, then it really doesn't matter if ALPA or APA or whoever/whichever pilot group is for or against the age change.

If you are opposed to this, then your fight should've been stronger back...

...When the ICAO voted to make the change happen,

...and foreign Air Carrier pilots started flying into our airspace on Thanksgiving day 2006....

...When the FAA docs told a Senate comittee that it wasn't about safety

...When the FAA's official stance became "neutral" on the age change

....for all intents and purposes...the fight was over because nobody put much energy into it

... It's nothing but squealing now.

 

[PCL_128]

Unfortunately, that fight seems to have ended with Prater's election. Prater personally doesn't support Age 60, so he's taking a passive stance and "accepting the inevitable" as opposed to fighting this ugly turd from ever becoming a law as directed by the majority membership in ALPA.

Your perception is incorrect. This idea didn't start with Captain Prater's administration. Captain Woerth supported Age 60, but he said towards the end of his term that the change was inevitable, and the only thing left to do was minimize the negative impact.

 

[capt. megadeth]

Once its over and done with both ALPA and non ALPA pilots will probably wonder what all the hub-bub was about. How can ending 47 years of wrongful discrimnation suck, except to the very short sighted.

Airfogey

Safety smafety, discrimination, blah blah blah.

What a bunch of horse do do. The only reason this is being looked at is because of either the 1. lack of pensions at certain airlines or 2. the fact that pensions were dumped by incompetent management at other airlines. I am not buying the "discrimination" b.s. If you want to argue that then why don't we just get rid of the seniority system? I mean, if a pilot gets hired at Airline A on the 737 with 10,000 hours and 5000 hours as capt. on the 737, why should he/she have to fly right seat to a 6000 hour 737 capt. just because that person is senior? I could argue discrimination on that too. Shouldn't the more experienced be captain?

Not only that....why have an age limit at all? I mean, wouldn't 65 be discriminatory? Why not just make it that you can fly until you can't hold a 1st class? Whooops....sorry, don't want to give anyone any ideas.

 

[Flopgut]

IF the NPRM is issued, then it really doesn't matter if ALPA or APA or whoever/whichever pilot group is for or against the age change.

If you are opposed to this, then your fight should've been stronger back...

...When the ICAO voted to make the change happen,

...and foreign Air Carrier pilots started flying into our airspace on Thanksgiving day 2006....

...When the FAA docs told a Senate comittee that it wasn't about safety

...When the FAA's official stance became "neutral" on the age change

....for all intents and purposes...the fight was over because nobody put much energy into it

... It's nothing but squealing now.

Oh Tejas my friend, the squealing is going to start when the majority gets heard.

 

[Tejas-Jet]

Oh Tejas my friend, the squealing is going to start when the majority gets heard.

The majority has been heard for a long time. In fact, the FAA's change to a neutral stance came while hearing from "the majority". As did the FAA's Federal Air Surgeon's testimony that health issues had nothing to do with it.

Do you honestly think the age 60 will never change?

Tejas

 

[tomgoodman]

Unintended consequence?

The only reason this is being looked at is because of either the 1. lack of pensions at certain airlines or 2. the fact that pensions were dumped by incompetent management at other airlines.

Good point. The age extension issue was raised several times in the past, but remained a "dead duck" until the wave of pension-dumping. Had pensions remained intact, almost all pilots would have been content to retire at 60 (or earlier), especially where wage concessions have made continuing to work relatively less rewarding. Ironically, many of those who may stagnate if the rule changes were themselves accomplices to these pension-dumps.

 

[Flopgut]

Do you honestly think the age 60 will never change?

Tejas

It never should change. Just like a pilot's DOH.

 

[Purpled]

It never should change. Just like a pilot's DOH.

Hurumph!

 

[Tejas-Jet]

It never should change. Just like a pilot's DOH.

Uhhhh...as we speak, it would appear that we are a lot closer to seeing an NPRM than we thought.

 

[NuGuy]

Heyas,

Yes, it's time for those tooting the "discrimination" horn to pack it where the sun doesn't shine. Not only are you simply trading one age for another, BUT, the FAA insists on a mandatory retirement age for controllers that is LESS THAN 60! With the critical ATC shortage looming, where are the howles of dismay about this blatently discriminatory rule?

Bah...

Nu

 

[humuakalaka]

If it's true that the NPRM is going to be issued tomorrow, anyone who isn't very close to captain upgrade just lost anywhere from several hundred thousand dollars to more than a million dollars.

Thanks old guys!

BTW, 65 is just as discriminatory as 60, so the age discrimination argument doesn't hold an ounce of water.

 

[Flopgut]

Uhhhh...as we speak, it would appear that we are a lot closer to seeing an NPRM than we thought.

Do you think that brings any of this to an end? Hardly. You haven't thought through where this will ultimately go. This will galvanize those against it and the majority will swell even larger. Even those who get marginalized at your outfit are going to grow weary of watching elderly louses soak up the best schedules. It's a foregone conclusion that those most eager for this change are completely unable to accept this with any humility. You're going to poison the well.

 

[Tejas-Jet]

Do you think that brings any of this to an end? Hardly. You haven't thought through where this will ultimately go. This will galvanize those against it and the majority will swell even larger. Even those who get marginalized at your outfit are going to grow weary of watching elderly louses soak up the best schedules. It's a foregone conclusion that those most eager for this change are completely unable to accept this with any humility. You're going to poison the well.

Uh-huh...and thats your opinion of how you think things will go....mine is more optimistic. You think it won't galvanize those that are for the change? As far as those watching the more senior get the good schedules....isn't that the way the seniority system works now? ...or are you trying to change that too?

How it all comes out is OK with me...either way. But for now, I have a chance to make my opinion known...and I will do just that. It's just like a Presidential election....I root for my guy all the way....when its over...I accept the result, and go on from there.

 

[capt. megadeth]

Uh-huh...and thats your opinion of how you think things will go....mine is more optimistic.

Dude, that's cuz you work at Southwest.

 

[Freight Dog]

Tejas, I think we should abolish the seniority system as well and adopt the identical system to Emirates.

See, now that the old guys have brought this radical change to our industry, maybe the young crowd should now replace the seniority system with some sort of a rotational schedule like the Emirates do.

I mean, isn't it discriminatory for you to hog the good schedules, good pay, while keeping others down?

 

[nimtz]

Comments released by Capt. Prater:



"I met with FAA Administrator Marion Blakey during the first week of the new year. One of the items that Administrator Blakey raised was the Age 60 Rule. She advised me that the FAA will put the current Age 60 Rule into the internal rulemaking process at the FAA, which will result in a Notice of Proposed Rule Making (NPRM) sometime during the second half of this year.

At this time, I have put together an internal working group to plan how the Association will deal with the NPRM. I can tell you this much - we will deal with it, we will include our governing bodies and line pilots, and we will, to the best of our ability, keep Age 60 from continuing to be a wedge issue within our membership.

You know I like Prater as a person, but my support for him is now completely gone due to this limp d!ck reply. Wedge issue? Give me a freaking break. I won't give a dime to the PAC for many years if this goes through. Special thanks to SWAPA for spearheading this noble cause.

 

[Flopgut]

As far as those watching the more senior get the good schedules....isn't that the way the seniority system works now? ...or are you trying to change that too?

Unless the rule is crafted carefully to balance this out, the proper tence will be "seniority system worked then". Past tence, it will cease to function, just a crossed picket line. The day you fly past age 60, you'll be taking someone elses flying.

 

[Doug Parker]

Unless the rule is crafted carefully to balance this out, the proper tence will be "seniority system worked then". Past tence, it will cease to function, just a crossed picket line. The day you fly past age 60, you'll be taking someone elses flying.

I'm sure the Ansett scabs at AWA, a whole lot of AirTran, CAL, and UNITED guys will have NO problem doing that AGAIN.....................


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