ATTN: AirTran pilots - NPA supports changing Age 60

[j41driver]

Well apparently the NPA would like to see the Age 60 rule changed. I don't remember anyone from the NPA asking me my opinion before they decided to spend my dues to support change. If you're an AirTran pilot that wants to keep Age 60, call or email AP and let him know what you think.

From the 1/24/07 President's Update:

"The BoD meeting last week that was scheduled for a day and a half, turned into a three day BoD meeting. One of the unanimous decisions was to support the Age 60 Rule change. An Age 60 committee has been set up and is chaired by Captain xxxxx xxxx who has been actively involved with the rule change."

 

[doer42]

I don't remember them putting that to a vote to the members. WTF?

 

[Lear70]

NOTHING here gets put to MEMRAT (Member Ratification) except officer votes and contract ratification.

That's one of the things that, after the Christmas fiasco, the line pilots were grumbling to change.

I support age 65 change, but I'm in the minority in my age demographic, and it certainly surprised me when the latest blast email came out with that.

 

[SkiFishFly]

I too support the change to age 65.
I am rather shocked that this was not put to a vote. This is definitely something the pilot group should vote on.

 

[Kharma Police]

I too support the change to age 65.
I am rather shocked that this was not put to a vote. This is definitely something the pilot group should vote on.

.............

 

[j41driver]

Let AP know your thoughts...

 

[SLEDNECK]

Funny how this was never mentioned several months ago before the elections. I purposely chose not to vote because I didn't want either one there, but if I would have known he was going to allow this, I would have voted for DP just to keep him out. This is way too political of an issue for the union to endorse without finding out what it's members think. It doesn't matter which side you're on, using non-pac funds for this is absurd. The guy they appointed as the "age 60 chair" is getting ready to retire and is obviously in favor of changing the rule. So, if my dues are going towards this committee, how am I being represented here?

Definately sounds like the good ol' boys club to me. After the holiday DISASTER, I seriously doubt anything would surprise me at this point. The insults from the company were bad enough, but now I'm paying to be insulted? I hope everyone emails the union about this. THe hits just keep coming and coming, at what point are people going to say enough is enough?

 

[jimcav]

It just came out of the blue. I was reading an email the other day and the way it was mentioned was pretty casual. I don't have a dog in this fight right now but over 1000 of our pilots do, so it should have been put to a vote.

 

[Murphy]

I support the rule change. I just sent AP an email saying as much but I also said this should have gone to the pilot group for a vote. I'm just going to fire off emails to the BoD whenever I feel I need to put in my .02.

 

[SLEDNECK]

I just got off the phone with crew planning. Because of my awarded scheduled days on all fall on "red" days, I cannot trade or move one single trip because of insufficient reserves. This is all because of the LOA signed after the holiday scandal. WHat's the point of SAP if you can't trade anything? THe SAP process was one of best things we had. Before the LOA we are able to trade as necessary but now they have all the power. That was a HUGE concession and what did we get in return? FLica? I would rather fax it in and get what I want rather then being refused over and over which never happend before now.

 

[scrub]

I just got off the phone with crew planning. Because of my awarded scheduled days on all fall on "red" days, I cannot trade or move one single trip because of insufficient reserves. This is all because of the LOA signed after the holiday scandal. WHat's the point of SAP if you can't trade anything? THe SAP process was one of best things we had. Before the LOA we are able to trade as necessary but now they have all the power. That was a HUGE concession and what did we get in return? FLica? I would rather fax it in and get what I want rather then being refused over and over which never happend before now.

I agree, couldn't get diddly squat in sap because of insuficient reserves. time to send my feelings to ap, this is total bs!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[FIREMAN]

AP does not care what you think. Have sent e-mails befor all I ever got back was " Thank You for your e-mail ". Also what do you think about the Special Assessment of $1000 for CPT and $500 for FO for a list intergration battle ?

 

[Murphy]

[email protected]

 

[Lear70]

AP does not care what you think. Have sent e-mails befor all I ever got back was " Thank You for your e-mail ". Also what do you think about the Special Assessment of $1000 for CPT and $500 for FO for a list intergration battle ?

That's not us, that's Midwest who is talking about those assessments.

I also have sent eMails to AP and have not EVER heard anything back, except from the chick who runs the office basically saying, "We got your email".

The new SAP process simply does NOT work,,, I've heard a LOT of complaints from everyone who tries to drop weekends.

The NPA is looking for someone who can deal more directly with Planning on this, but there's only a handful of us who probably have the Excel programming knowledge to understand what the company is doing (they do their INITIAL coverage determination based on an Excel program with a VERY long formula with the daily computation in it and input that final number into FLICA).

I talked with them about it, but I'm afraid to get in the middle of everything until I'm off probation...

 

[FIREMAN]

That's not us, that's Midwest who is talking about those assessments.


It is US, at the recurrent lunch it was brought up by the BOD member that was there. They are considering it. The BOD member said Midwest had already made the assessment to thier group.

 

[Lear70]

Yeah, they're *considering* it.

They're also considering spreading that assessment out over a longer period of time, since we already have a half-million dollar contingency fund.

Or lowering the assessment to $50 per month for CA's, $20 per month for F/O's over the next year (total $600 / $240).

Lots of things being considered, all of it premature UNTIL management has a definite YES, we're acquiring Midwest.

Ain't nothing happening until then... so simma down,,, simma down now.

 

[likeitis]

That's not us, that's Midwest who is talking about those assessments.

I also have sent eMails to AP and have not EVER heard anything back, except from the chick who runs the office basically saying, "We got your email".

The new SAP process simply does NOT work,,, I've heard a LOT of complaints from everyone who tries to drop weekends.

The NPA is looking for someone who can deal more directly with Planning on this, but there's only a handful of us who probably have the Excel programming knowledge to understand what the company is doing (they do their INITIAL coverage determination based on an Excel program with a VERY long formula with the daily computation in it and input that final number into FLICA).

I talked with them about it, but I'm afraid to get in the middle of everything until I'm off probation...

Nope no assesments at Midwest. They actually just got approval from ALPA National to use their excess funds that have been building up over the years. The MEC runs a very tight ship and they are one of only a few who have excess funds. With the amount they have in there, there shouldn't be a need for any assesments. The MEC has talked about increasing the dues to pay for a possible ALPA VS. ALPA merger where they would not be allowed to use those funds.

 

[Ty Webb]

The SAP2 LOA was a dunder-headed move, and the "Supporting age 60" without polling the membership was about the last straw for me.

DP was not the answer, but a recall may be.

 

[FIREMAN]

Nope no assesments at Midwest. They actually just got approval from ALPA National to use their excess funds that have been building up over the years. The MEC runs a very tight ship and they are one of only a few who have excess funds. With the amount they have in there, there shouldn't be a need for any assesments. The MEC has talked about increasing the dues to pay for a possible ALPA VS. ALPA merger where they would not be allowed to use those funds.

Well, there they go agian. The BOD at FL spining the truth. We were told that Midwest had already made the assessment, and we needed to raise cash to fight any law suits brought on by Midwest.

 

[FIREMAN]

The SAP2 LOA was a dunder-headed move, and the "Supporting age 60" without polling the membership was about the last straw for me.

DP was not the answer, but a recall may be.

There is not a lot I agree on with Ty, but this time I do.

 

[Lear70]

This came up recently amongst the P2P group and we were told that the Midwest group had made a comment that "they *COULD* raise a lot of cash with" those specific dollar amounts, NOT that they HAD done it or were absolutely going to.

Again, there are NO plans to do this at AirTran, just *TALK*. Maybe the guy who was there was feeling out the pilot group to see how that kind of assessment would go over.

I personally think it's a rather stupid move unless and until we are definitely in that kind of battle.

Not that I think a "battle" would be a good thing between two pilot groups, but I've already said I honestly believe no middle ground would be achievable on seniority integration and that it would end up in arbitration a la' UAir/AmerWest.

I'm not saying anything on the recall issue... Although I haven't agreed with much that AP has done in the last 90 days, it's always easier to sling mud than come up with honest fixes to issues and you can't please everyone all the time.

I said it during the election - show me a candidate who's a better choice and I'll vote for them.

 

[PCL_128]

I don't have a copy of the NPA by-laws, but I would assume that you have a similar process to ALPA where the rank-and-file membership can bring a resolution to a meeting. Perhaps a resolution calling for a vote on this subject would be in order?

 

[Lear70]

I mentioned a few weeks ago that MEMRAT would be a GOOD thing.

Didn't hear too many of my fellow AAI pilots chime in so I didn't mention it again.

 

[ATLDRVR]

The new SAP LOA has brought us full circle back to the begining when everytime you tried to swap or drop the excuse was DENIED--LOW COVERAGE! So SAP II is basically a waste of time now. Is the NPA able to monitor the coverage to make sure the company is pulling any crap with the low coverage excuse?

I was denied a swap from a four day on the 13th for a 3 day on the 11th due to low coverage on the 16th, even though I finish a red eye at 0500 on the 16th. I am not sure what reserves they will need to cover my trip that ends at 5AM.

Would we get the assessment back if everything went smooth with the merger and there were no law suits? (I know it is a long shot that would happen but just wondering)

 

[SLEDNECK]

[email protected]

I sent an email to that address and got no response.

 

[jimcav]

Don't we already pay an obscene amount of money in dues? Two years into negotiations and Skipper is still there. Anyone remember 2001 and that pos ta he tried to push thru. And they want MORE money. YGTBFK. Damn I need a beer.

 

[AppBrookie]

Where is our dues money going? I don't feel we are getting represented, we are giving everything away!!!!!!!!! ALPA has not done alot to help me the last few years, HOWEVER, at least you get some excellent Medical/Legal Representation for your dues money!! We need some backbone!!!!!
Something to think about!!!!!!!!!!

 

[likeitis]

Where is our dues money going? I don't feel we are getting represented, we are giving everything away!!!!!!!!! ALPA has not done alot to help me the last few years, HOWEVER, at least you get some excellent Medical/Legal Representation for your dues money!! We need some backbone!!!!!
Something to think about!!!!!!!!!!

I can see how Airtran pilots may be apprehensive about ALPA but anyone who has had to use aeromedical will agree that it is worth the dues dollars itself. Alpa has supported everything that YX pilots have asked for. We have ASAP and FOQA, which is pretty impressive for the size of the membership. By looking at YX Alpa's committee structure you would think that the local was a group of 1000 pilots and not 390.

FL may be different now then when I was there 8 years ago but the difference how each company handles minor pilot blunders is night and day. I flew with one captain at FL a month after he was accused of hitting a wing tip on landing, boy was that fun. Felt like it was take your child to work month and the check airman was my kid. The companies argument/proof was laughable. It wouldn't hold up in red China much less the USA but the hell the company put this poor guy through was unbelievable. Fl seems to point everything at an individual and hide the procedural problems whereas Yx does and great job trying to find out why the problem occurred and what can be done procedurally to make sure it doesn't happen again. I believe the reason behind the difference is ALPA's involvement.

 

[-9Capt]

I believe the reason behind the difference is ALPA's involvement.

I believe the difference is because we have Joe Leonard running things. His days here are numbered, we'll see what happens once he's gone.

 

[NuGuy]

The SAP2 LOA was a dunder-headed move, and the "Supporting age 60" without polling the membership was about the last straw for me.

DP was not the answer, but a recall may be.

Heyas Ty,

I heard the one person (DA) who could probably lead the pilot group of this mess won't have anything to do with the current board members. He amost single handedly stopped the 2001 TA, and forced a renegotiation of almost the whole deal.

You guys need to get him to clean up the mess. He's got no ego, and has nothing lose by telling it straight.

Good luck....

Nu