Mesaba Airlines To Operate Crj900s

[YourPilotFriend]

That's my point, Mesaba doesn't fall under any of these rules. Some type of LOA will have to be struck at NWALPA. If NWALPA elects not to extend the upper cap and continue to push the compass contract, they will screw NWA pilots. The additional overhead to operate a third regional would bleed millions more out of the NWA wage recapture.

 

[rtmcfi]

Congrats XJ!

 

[SplitBar]

I'm sure 50% of the furloughed pilots have found jobs elsewhere. Good chance XJ will be hiring off the street by the end of the summer. The creditor claim payout rules regarding furloughed pilots might play into the mix as to who does/doesn't return. I hear any furloughed pilot, vol or invol, wont get a claim unless he returns to active status.

 

[XJohXJ]

I'm sure 50% of the furloughed pilots have found jobs elsewhere. Good chance XJ will be hiring off the street by the end of the summer. The creditor claim payout rules regarding furloughed pilots might play into the mix as to who does/doesn't return. I hear any furloughed pilot, vol or invol, wont get a claim unless he returns to active status.

I hope you're right about returning furloughees getting a claim. A full, or close to full, claim for returning furloughees will probably affect the percentages. It is, after all, a decent chunk of $.

 

[Fly4hire]

The question about the ERJ's is still up in the air, apparently the business plan for compass still isn't viable.

According to whom?

They are setting up contracts for FSI, and are sending out letters to all the furloughed NWA pilots who are eligble per contract to take those jobs.

 

[AvroJockey]

I'm sure 50% of the furloughed pilots have found jobs elsewhere. Good chance XJ will be hiring off the street by the end of the summer. The creditor claim payout rules regarding furloughed pilots might play into the mix as to who does/doesn't return. I hear any furloughed pilot, vol or invol, wont get a claim unless he returns to active status.

The MEC is still in the process of deciding eligibility.

 

[SEVEN]

Furloughed Pilots at Xj can expect to receive phone calls to return within 3-4 weeks. No FedEx letters this time. 4.5 crew per airplane (9 pilots per plane) Probably only 93 of the current 220 furloughed will return. Hiring off the street by mid summer.

Get out the POM TAWS. Have fun in MSP.

 

[easydoesit]

Please do not congratulate Mesaba on this news. This was planned out way long ago, and we have taken it up the backside for the last 2 years plus. This just goes to show how powerful NWA is, and will continue to be, unless we put a stop to it. The sad thing is, there is no way to take a stand on this. Pilots will keep putting their families first. Management holds all the cards.

This is just another piece of news in a sad string of events for regional carriers.

There should be no congratulations here. Get your PIC time and get the hell off the RED RUDDER!

 

[SEVEN]

Please do not congratulate Mesaba on this news. This was planned out way long ago, and we have taken it up the backside for the last 2 years plus. This just goes to show how powerful NWA is, and will continue to be, unless we put a stop to it. The sad thing is, there is no way to take a stand on this. Pilots will keep putting their families first. Management holds all the cards.

This is just another piece of news in a sad string of events for regional carriers. There should be no congratulations here. Get your PIC time and get the hell off the RED RUDDER!

Unfortunately you're right. But it's still nice to hear some positive news once in a while.

 

[SplitBar]

The MEC is still in the process of deciding eligibility.

True, but there was a bit of a hint in the Con. Call yesterday. Wycor said that 14.2M / 600 pilots came out to about $24,000 per pilot. If all furloughed pilots were to be included in the payout the # would have been closer to 750. He also said that the payout range will be in the $20,000 - $28,000 range meaning that they will be taking longivity into factor.

 

[gnx99]

Probably only 93 of the current 220 furloughed will return.

93 is a little specific don't you think

 

[mamba20]

Whats the pay going to be? Something like $11,000 take home a year after you pay for health insurance? Wow, glad you guys got those 900's.

 

[SplitBar]

Please do not congratulate Mesaba on this news. This was planned out way long ago, and we have taken it up the backside for the last 2 years plus. This just goes to show how powerful NWA is, and will continue to be, unless we put a stop to it. The sad thing is, there is no way to take a stand on this. Pilots will keep putting their families first. Management holds all the cards.

This is just another piece of news in a sad string of events for regional carriers.

There should be no congratulations here. Get your PIC time and get the hell off the RED RUDDER!

Obviously sour grapes from someone who has moved on. Everyone on the insde is more than happy about this positive development.

 

[SEVEN]

True, but there was a bit of a hint in the Con. Call yesterday. Wycor said that 14.2M / 600 pilots came out to about $24,000 per pilot. If all furloughed pilots were to be included in the payout the # would have been closer to 750. He also said that the payout range will be in the $20,000 - $28,000 range meaning that they will be taking longivity into factor.

The MEC would have to be insane not to include the furloughed pilots in the payout. It's bad enough to be stabbed in the back by our own management let alone our own MEC. That would be unforgivable. Our local union would be dividing its own members.

 

[jumppilot03]

Can someone explain the payout? I am not familiar. Thanks

 

[SEVEN]

Whats the pay going to be? Something like $11,000 take home a year after you pay for health insurance? Wow, glad you guys got those 900's.

It's a5% percent pay decrease on the hourly wage. The health insurance premium is going up 3%. A first year FO would gross around $22,700. If the family plan is elected for health insurance it would be around $20,000/ year.

 

[SEVEN]

93 is a little specific don't you think

Sorry about that. My calculating was off. The actual number will be 89.

 

[SEVEN]

Ypf?

YPF:

How will this effect the NWA/DELTA merger next year?

 

[flyslow24]

How is the ATP treating you seven?

 

[DoinTime]

True, but there was a bit of a hint in the Con. Call yesterday. Wycor said that 14.2M / 600 pilots came out to about $24,000 per pilot. If all furloughed pilots were to be included in the payout the # would have been closer to 750. He also said that the payout range will be in the $20,000 - $28,000 range meaning that they will be taking longivity into factor.

Has there been any word on what this $14.2 million bankruptcy claim will be worth when its cashed out? PCL just got about 80 cents on the dollar for a portion of their claim. This was an unheard of amount for an airline bankruptcy claim. Typical payout is in the 10 cent on the dollar range.

I've been told that furloughed pilots at NW are recieving their portion of the bankructy claim issued to NWALPA.

 

[NuGuy]

That's my point, Mesaba doesn't fall under any of these rules. Some type of LOA will have to be struck at NWALPA. If NWALPA elects not to extend the upper cap and continue to push the compass contract, they will screw NWA pilots. The additional overhead to operate a third regional would bleed millions more out of the NWA wage recapture.

As usualy, YPF, NOT BEING A PILOT AT NWA, has completely mis-read the situation. The NWA pilots are not in a giving mood at all, and there will be NO LOAs regarding any scope relaxation.

This just into newsroom:

NWA management today announced that NWA intends to place 36 CRJ-900 aircraft, operated with 76 seats (12 first class, 64 coach), at Mesaba Airlines.

With Northwest’s previously announced plan to acquire Mesaba, the placement of these aircraft at Mesaba constitutes a violation of Section 1 (scope) of the pilot contract. The NWA MEC has previously advised NWA management that this violation would occur if the aircraft were placed at Mesaba. Absent a swift resolution of this issue, the NWA MEC will be filing the appropriate grievance, which will be processed on an expedited basis.

Don't expect to get this resolved with a mystery LOA in the middle of the night. The NWA pilots have already a$$ canned a large percentage of their LEC reps AND the MEC chairman over the disasterous new contract, so the rest are running scared.

I feel for the XJ guys, but the NWA guys have to protect whats left. If it were up to me, I'd merge the lists and call it done.

Nu

 

[NuGuy]

Has there been any word on what this $14.2 million bankruptcy claim will be worth when its cashed out? PCL just got about 80 cents on the dollar for a portion of their claim. This was an unheard of amount for an airline bankruptcy claim. Typical payout is in the 10 cent on the dollar range.

I've been told that furloughed pilots at NW are recieving their portion of the bankructy claim issued to NWALPA.

Heyas DT,

The NWA pilots got 85 cents on the dollar for selling %20 of their claim (the max currently allowable)...or about $176 million...not too shabby at all.

For their %20, a mid-grade FO will probably get a check for around $30k, and captains around $50k. Furloughed pilots get a slice of the pie, depending on their longevity and callback status...most will get aroun $8-10k, even if they never return to fly for NWA.

And this is just for %20. Had %100 been sold, that same FO that got $30k would receive over $100k.

The divvy up was %50 pro-rata (equal share), %25 by longevity and %25 for W2. While not totally equitable, IMHO, it's a far, far cry from the days where the senior folks would get the lions share.

Nu

 

[xjhawk]

how is this a violation of their scope? It has a provision for a wholly owned regional, except when that was written, it was suppose to be newco. With the compas certificate in trouble, I think NWA went looking for an alternative. Thats just my two cents. I think that if they include the provisions forthe NWA furloughs for the new jets, it fits with their scope provisions. But in this case, then a flow through needs to happen as well. I am sure this will be a great load crap for all, but hope a positive outcome for all as well.

 

[Fly4hire]

how is this a violation of their scope? It has a provision for a wholly owned regional, except when that was written, it was suppose to be newco.

It's a violation because being wholly owned subsidary XJ is required to comply with flow up/down provisions, as well as provide jobs to furloughed NWA pilots per section 1 of the NWA pilots contract. Apparently NWA is refusing to comply with these provisions, which puts XJ with CRJ 900's in violation of our Scope unless they comply.

With the compas certificate in trouble, I think NWA went looking for an alternative

Who says it's in trouble?

Thats just my two cents. I think that if they include the provisions forthe NWA furloughs for the new jets, it fits with their scope provisions. But in this case, then a flow through needs to happen as well.

Concur.

 

[DoinTime]

It's a violation because being wholly owned subsidary XJ is required to comply with flow up/down provisions, as well as provide jobs to furloughed NWA pilots per section 1 of the NWA pilots contract. Apparently NWA is refusing to comply with these provisions, which puts XJ with CRJ 900's in violation of our Scope unless they comply.

Thats going to get ugly. The only flow up provision is for furloughed mainliners and the flow down is 100%. What a crap deal.

 

[XJohXJ]

Thats going to get ugly. The only flow up provision is for furloughed mainliners and the flow down is 100%. What a crap deal.

Sounds like the acceptable solution is to merge the lists. Then everyone flows up/down.

 

[Fly4hire]

Thats going to get ugly. The only flow up provision is for furloughed mainliners and the flow down is 100%. What a crap deal.

Wrong. If you read the applicable sections of the contract Compass (and XJ if NWA complies) have flow up provisions from the affilaite as well as our furloughed pilots getting jobs and flow down.

Before you cry about how bad a deal it is, recall the only reason XJ can get CRJ900's and Compass exists is because of a negotiated deal with NWA pilots.

We expect the terms of that agreement to be honored.

 

[YourPilotFriend]

As usualy, YPF, NOT BEING A PILOT AT NWA, has completely mis-read the situation. The NWA pilots are not in a giving mood at all, and there will be NO LOAs regarding any scope relaxation.

This just into newsroom:

NWA management today announced that NWA intends to place 36 CRJ-900 aircraft, operated with 76 seats (12 first class, 64 coach), at Mesaba Airlines.

With Northwest’s previously announced plan to acquire Mesaba, the placement of these aircraft at Mesaba constitutes a violation of Section 1 (scope) of the pilot contract. The NWA MEC has previously advised NWA management that this violation would occur if the aircraft were placed at Mesaba. Absent a swift resolution of this issue, the NWA MEC will be filing the appropriate grievance, which will be processed on an expedited basis.

Don't expect to get this resolved with a mystery LOA in the middle of the night. The NWA pilots have already a$$ canned a large percentage of their LEC reps AND the MEC chairman over the disasterous new contract, so the rest are running scared.

I feel for the XJ guys, but the NWA guys have to protect whats left. If it were up to me, I'd merge the lists and call it done.

Nu

This is exactly my point. The scope restrictions will cost NWA pilots even more money down the road. If you think you will get back the 76 seat jets, you got another thing coming. There will be no merger of any list. Hey why don't we start a new company to operate each jet individually. We can then hire 72 CEO at $500,000 a piece since the NWA pilots are paying. What part of scope relief costs you money don't you understand?

 

[RedTailSwinger]

Do the same restrictions/provisions that applied to compass now apply to Mesaba?

Wouldn't that mean that ALL furloughed NWA pilots should be instantly recalled to a position at Mesaba?

 

[PCL_128]

This is exactly my point. The scope restrictions will cost NWA pilots even more money down the road. If you think you will get back the 76 seat jets, you got another thing coming. There will be no merger of any list. Hey why don't we start a new company to operate each jet individually. We can then hire 72 CEO at $500,000 a piece since the NWA pilots are paying. What part of scope relief costs you money don't you understand?

Actually, it's you that doesn't seem to understand. There is no pressure on the NWA pilots anymore. Management has no leverage. The concessionary agreement signed by ALPA and management was signed while NWA was already in BK. There's no hope for them to get another 1113(c) filing, so NWA management can't pressure NWA ALPA into giving more concessions. The scope is clear, and there's absolutely no incentive for the NWA pilots to give it up. Not only that, but the new NWA MEC is much more militant than the McClain MEC. There will be no scope relief, and I predict a vicious court battle over this with NWA ALPA coming out ahead.