Mesaba Airlines To Operate Crj900s

[RedTailSwinger]

Currently the upper cap on 76-seat aircraft at an affiliate carrier for NWA is 55.

Mesaba (and ONLY Mesaba) can replace the Avros 1 for 1 without having an affect on the upper cap of 76 seat aircraft.

The upper cap is in addition to Mesabas Avro replacement. Thats why Mesaba was almost guaranteed to get these aircraft at some point. I haven't read the NWA contract in a while, but this was one thing I clearly remember.

 

[IFLYIMC]

I would not look at Compass going any where anytime soon! The only reason NWA ordered the 900's is the 200's are obsolete and the only way NWA could use all of its 200's options was to make a deal for the 900's. I would say that you could expect the CRJ's to be phased out over the years with 200's going first. Don't get me wrong I like the CRJ, but the ERJ is much better performer than the CRJ. Just my thoughts!!!

 

[YourPilotFriend]

Mesaba (and ONLY Mesaba) can replace the Avros 1 for 1 without having an affect on the upper cap of 76 seat aircraft.

The upper cap is in addition to Mesabas Avro replacement. Thats why Mesaba was almost guaranteed to get these aircraft at some point. I haven't read the NWA contract in a while, but this was one thing I clearly remember.

Only if mesaba remained a stand alone. As I interpret the contract Mesaba now falls under the greater than 51% ownership clause. Meaning it can take on the upper cap of 90 jets if it has the J4J included.

This is probably not the way this will go down, NWALPA will have to modify the agreement to fit in Mesaba. What will ALPA do, since the compass contract is way better than the Mesaba one. Management will seek the mesaba contract to operate all 76 seat aircraft. It all depends on whether or not ALPA will let them.

 

[IFIxUmUBrakeUm]

so mesaba could operate 91 crj-900s with out a contract issue? 36 replacements and 55 cap?

 

[xjhawk]

scope

when NWA has mesaba how does this fit into the scope? we are now a nwa company, not a 3rd party. whats the cap for an nwa owned airlink? what about flow thru?

There was a summary for their scope.....says in three parts 1. regional which buys aircraft and operated them for NWA 2. regional who gets planes NWA buys or leases and then operates those planes (55 is the limit with this set up, except for mesaba which 36 planes will replace the avro) then there is the wholly owned company called newco for now will have a cap at 90 planes.......not verbatum....but u get the jist. more questions are unanswered

 

[profit]

Only if mesaba remained a stand alone. As I interpret the contract Mesaba now falls under the greater than 51% ownership clause. Meaning it can take on the upper cap of 90 jets if it has the J4J included.

This is probably not the way this will go down, NWALPA will have to modify the agreement to fit in Mesaba. What will ALPA do, since the compass contract is way better than the Mesaba one. Management will seek the mesaba contract to operate all 76 seat aircraft. It all depends on whether or not ALPA will let them.

YPF,

You had stated earlier that the compass costs would be higher. Can you elaborate? The rates I saw posted somewhere didn't look any higher than XJ 76 seat rates.

 

[XJohXJ]

Compass FO pay is significantly higher than Mesaba FO pay. I don't know about the Capt pay.

 

[PCL_128]

I would not look at Compass going any where anytime soon! The only reason NWA ordered the 900's is the 200's are obsolete and the only way NWA could use all of its 200's options was to make a deal for the 900's. I would say that you could expect the CRJ's to be phased out over the years with 200's going first. Don't get me wrong I like the CRJ, but the ERJ is much better performer than the CRJ. Just my thoughts!!!

The 50 seaters won't be going anywhere for a while. NWA just signed a 10-year agreement with Pinnacle to continue operating 141 50-seaters until 2017.

 

[ikillbigfoot]

With all the furloughs that hate them and gone else where, when ya'll think they'll hire off the street?

 

[DoinTime]

You guys are all F*ed up on the rules for 76-seat flying.

7. A summary of the terms we have negotiated with respect to the 50 seat RJs, the 51-76 seat SJs and the 77-100 seat jets is provided below for your review:

a. RJs certificated for 50 seats or less: There are no limits on the number of such aircraft or on their ownership or on where they fly (except for a hub bypass restriction and a total block hour limit, both of which apply to all Feeder Carrier flying).

b. NWA may have SJs configured for 51-76 seats operated at a Feeder Carrier as defined in Section 1 provided:

(1) the maximum certificated seating is 86 seats or less (90 seats for the LR CRJ 900 series);

(2) the number of 51-76 SJs is capped at 55 (the “lower cap”) if they are flown exclusively at a Feeder Carrier that is not an affiliate of NWA. This cap may increase to 90 only if NWA creates an Affiliate (the “upper cap”) and if at least 35 of the 51-76 seat SJs are flown at the NWA Affiliate Feeder Carrier (we have been calling it SJet). Both of these caps include the 35 AVRO-85 aircraft flown at Mesaba with a maximum of 69 seats.

(3) In order for the lower cap of 55 (51-76 seat SJs) to be exceeded, the company must create an Affiliate (SJet) to fly these aircraft. (All 90 could be at SJet)

(4) After the amendable date, the upper cap increases by 3 aircraft per year during the status quo period, provided there are at least 10 of the 77-110 seat aircraft in active service at the mainline (5 per year during status quo period if at least 15 of the 77-110 seat aircraft).

(5) There are generally no ownership or use restrictions, except for the hub bypass and total block hour limitations referenced in Section 1 of the work rule summary above.

(6) For each new 77-110 seat aircraft placed into active service at NWA mainline, 1 additional 51-76 seat aircraft can be added to the lower and upper cap, provided that the NWA NB threshold has been met. The NB threshold is the total number of 77-110 seat aircraft and other NWA NB aircraft (DC-9, A-319, 320, B757) in active service as of the date 1 year after NW emerges from C11, minus 10. Given our expectation of growth after emergence the 1 year date seemed to pose little threat.

(7) There is a 1-for-1 peel back penalty provision for 51-76 seat aircraft in the event 77-110 seat aircraft are later removed from service and an automatic return to the cap of 55 if the NB threshold is not maintained. If either of these events occurs NWA must reduce the number of 51-76 seat SJs in service with the NW designator code.

(8) In order to operate more than 55 of the 51-76 seat SJ aircraft the Company must create a new Feeder Carrier Affiliate (SJet) operating under the following provisions:

(a) The Feeder may operate only 50 seat RJ and/or 51-76 seat SJ aircraft for so long as it is an Affiliate of NWA.

(b) All pilot positions on 51-76 seat aircraft shall be made available to laid off
Northwest pilots who would like the positions. No NWA pilot will be forced to
fly at SJet.

(c) ALPA is recognized as the representative of SJet.

(d) The Feeder enters into an industry standard contract with ALPA (see item 12 below for the major provisions of the CBA).

(e) NWA must own more than 50% of the Feeder Carrier Affiliate when it starts operating.

(f) NWA must control the Feeder Carrier and retain more than 50% of the
ownership, except that if at least 10 of the 77-110 seat jet aircraft are in active service at NWA mainline, NWA may sell the Feeder Carrier as long as:

1’ all pilot positions continue to be available to laid off Northwest pilots
and the Flow Agreement is maintained.

2’ all pilots of the Feeder Carrier (SJet) have the right to transfer to the
successor and the Feeder Carrier successor is in compliance with the
terms of the successorship provisions of the Feeder Carrier contract.

3’ In the event these provisions are not complied with or the flow rights
are modified or terminated, then the maximum number of permitted 51-
76 seat jets reverts to the lower cap of 55 SJs and any 51-76 seat SJs in
excess of 55 may no longer carry the NW code designator.

(9) 51-76 seat jets may also be operated at NWA mainline at the pay rates established for the Feeder Carrier and the work rules for the 77-110 seat mainline jet aircraft should NWA wish to do so for crew and fleet utilization purposes.

(10) With respect to 51-76 seat aircraft owned, leased or financed by Northwest and placed at another Feeder Carrier, other than SJet (e.g. Mesaba or Pinnacle), laid off Northwest pilots shall have access to _ of the Captain and _ of the F/O jobs associated with those aircraft.

(11) With respect to 51-76 seat aircraft which are not owned, lease or financed by NWA and are operated by another Feeder Carrier with the NW code (MESA, for ex.), laid off Northwest pilots will have preferential hiring rights at those carriers as the Airline Services Agreements covering those carriers are entered into or amended.

 

[YourPilotFriend]

That's my point, Mesaba doesn't fall under any of these rules. Some type of LOA will have to be struck at NWALPA. If NWALPA elects not to extend the upper cap and continue to push the compass contract, they will screw NWA pilots. The additional overhead to operate a third regional would bleed millions more out of the NWA wage recapture.

 

[rtmcfi]

Congrats XJ!

 

[SplitBar]

I'm sure 50% of the furloughed pilots have found jobs elsewhere. Good chance XJ will be hiring off the street by the end of the summer. The creditor claim payout rules regarding furloughed pilots might play into the mix as to who does/doesn't return. I hear any furloughed pilot, vol or invol, wont get a claim unless he returns to active status.

 

[XJohXJ]

I'm sure 50% of the furloughed pilots have found jobs elsewhere. Good chance XJ will be hiring off the street by the end of the summer. The creditor claim payout rules regarding furloughed pilots might play into the mix as to who does/doesn't return. I hear any furloughed pilot, vol or invol, wont get a claim unless he returns to active status.

I hope you're right about returning furloughees getting a claim. A full, or close to full, claim for returning furloughees will probably affect the percentages. It is, after all, a decent chunk of $.

 

[Fly4hire]

The question about the ERJ's is still up in the air, apparently the business plan for compass still isn't viable.

According to whom?

They are setting up contracts for FSI, and are sending out letters to all the furloughed NWA pilots who are eligble per contract to take those jobs.

 

[AvroJockey]

I'm sure 50% of the furloughed pilots have found jobs elsewhere. Good chance XJ will be hiring off the street by the end of the summer. The creditor claim payout rules regarding furloughed pilots might play into the mix as to who does/doesn't return. I hear any furloughed pilot, vol or invol, wont get a claim unless he returns to active status.

The MEC is still in the process of deciding eligibility.

 

[SEVEN]

Furloughed Pilots at Xj can expect to receive phone calls to return within 3-4 weeks. No FedEx letters this time. 4.5 crew per airplane (9 pilots per plane) Probably only 93 of the current 220 furloughed will return. Hiring off the street by mid summer.

Get out the POM TAWS. Have fun in MSP.

 

[easydoesit]

Please do not congratulate Mesaba on this news. This was planned out way long ago, and we have taken it up the backside for the last 2 years plus. This just goes to show how powerful NWA is, and will continue to be, unless we put a stop to it. The sad thing is, there is no way to take a stand on this. Pilots will keep putting their families first. Management holds all the cards.

This is just another piece of news in a sad string of events for regional carriers.

There should be no congratulations here. Get your PIC time and get the hell off the RED RUDDER!

 

[SEVEN]

Please do not congratulate Mesaba on this news. This was planned out way long ago, and we have taken it up the backside for the last 2 years plus. This just goes to show how powerful NWA is, and will continue to be, unless we put a stop to it. The sad thing is, there is no way to take a stand on this. Pilots will keep putting their families first. Management holds all the cards.

This is just another piece of news in a sad string of events for regional carriers. There should be no congratulations here. Get your PIC time and get the hell off the RED RUDDER!

Unfortunately you're right. But it's still nice to hear some positive news once in a while.

 

[SplitBar]

The MEC is still in the process of deciding eligibility.

True, but there was a bit of a hint in the Con. Call yesterday. Wycor said that 14.2M / 600 pilots came out to about $24,000 per pilot. If all furloughed pilots were to be included in the payout the # would have been closer to 750. He also said that the payout range will be in the $20,000 - $28,000 range meaning that they will be taking longivity into factor.