COLGANS!!!!! Union????

[suupah]

Should Colgan unionize and why/how?

discuss.

 

[suupah]

My vote is NO! at least not yet.

And if so, not with Pinnacle Alpa. The feeling i get from those guys on here is that they own us now and that they feel we should be brought into their fold on their terms as their little brothers ie, at the end of their list!

If there was a merging of the list, we would get no say in it. that is why i feel that if we unionize it must be a separate union.

long live leroy!!!!! Colgan RULES!!!!

 

[Smarta$$]

My vote is NO! at least not yet.

And if so, not with Pinnacle Alpa. The feeling i get from those guys on here is that they own us now and that they feel we should be brought into their fold on their terms as their little brothers ie, at the end of their list!

If there was a merging of the list, we would get no say in it. that is why i feel that if we unionize it must be a separate union.

long live leroy!!!!! Colgan RULES!!!!

A seperate union would not guarantee much say in an integration. Alpa would be your biggest help of having an equitable integration for your pilots. I can speak for many or most 9E pilots that we would not want you to be stapled to the bottom of our list. Our main objectives would be to give both of our pilots groups leverage in negotiating a good contract for ALL Pinnacle\Colgan pilots to enjoy. If we dont, we will be subject to Pinnacle corp. putting out RFPs between our to conpanies and having us low ball each other. Very bad. Put some trust in the intentions of the 9E pilots. We do NOT want to take your flying and put us at the bottom of our list. Your upgrade would not go longer. We are already upgrading in under Two years as of our last vacancy and I dont see that going anywhere but down.

Neither of us asked for this but we do consider both groups as having the same goals. Lets work together!

 

[dingo222]

I agree, we should wait. I can't believe everyone is so spun up and paraniod in the first place. Take the buyout at face value. They bought us because we make money in a niche market. We can make more money, but the colgan's didnt have the cash to expand. With the chance of mesaba pilots getting jets, we stand the chance to be the dominant t-prop operator out there right now. THat means we make more money that could be spread out between both companies. I want to see PCL get 70 or 90 seaters to compete with Republic. THis move is a cash cow move. PCL can increase Colgans profit tomorrow, because they already have Saabs for us. THat means a dime doesnt come out of thier pocket to increase our profitability.

I sure as heck wouldnt sign anything until I knew exactly how we would be integrated and how it would effect us. More than likely, it will not be a one for one basis. THat means longer upgrades for fo's, and lower senority for some captains. Pay? We are on par with PCL right now on pay, especially based on the equipment that we fly. Is PCL holding going to lower our pay? Fat chance. There are just too many other airlines and options out there right now. PCL and colgan both are having problems getting ppl in the door and keeping them. Republic, Skywest, and Expressjet are hiring like they are going on the crusades. We can't keep people now with the money we make and mgmt knows it. We don't need a union yet for that kind of protection. Simple economics tell mgmt not to screw with us on pay. I can't speak for the PCL pilots, becuase I'm not one. I know that they haven't had it the best from what's been said on this board. (Take anything on this board at face value!) THe more I think about it, the less I see whipsaw coming. PCL is apples, colgan is oranges. DIfferent codeshares, different aircraft, different type of flying all together. I hope colgan never sees a jet. We make money flying routes that jets cant make money on. THat's our bread and butter. PCL holdings knows this, and that's why they bought us. We don't need protection from mgmt or a market that we have already started to corner.

We are all looking at this like it's the axis of evil, and for good reason. IF mgmt starts abusing us, then I'm all for it. Butwe need to know how this Integration will help us before we start organizing anything.

 

[suupah]

i have no interest in integration. i think most colganeers would like to stay completely separate from 9e alpa.

 

[dingo222]

Smart,

I agree with you that pcl pilots have our best interests in mind. I welcome you guys also. Colganites have always been a laid back kinda group. I can say that colgan pilots dont want to fly struck work, or be part of some gojets type of spinoff. THat is our biggest fear right now. But i just dont see them pitting one against the other for RFP's. We can't do the type of flying that you guys do. We make our money on the short haul stuff, 300 NM or less. THe place where any RJ can't make money. Or, our b-1900's that fly eas routes, with 5 pax on them. THose planes could never take your routes, or an rj would never work on them. Now, if PCL holding gives colgan jets, or say some sort of a/c that can compete with the rj, that would be a new ballgame. This is going to be interesting! We aren't anti union per sey, and definately not anti pcl. Hell, I don't know what i'm trying to say anymore, lol!

 

[BirdCatcher]

Here are my thoughts. The Colgan family is looking out for their interests to make a return on their investment. They understand an airline is either growing or dieing, and they knew they don't have the capital to grow on their own. Pinnacle management is looking out for the interests of their shareholders and their bonus checks. Pinnacle ALPA looks out for the interests of their pilot group. WHO is looking out for the interests of the Colgan pilots/mechanics/flight attendants? George Dubya? Do we want to be in this situation? I know the press releases and management keep saying, "We want to keep it as it is." Looking back at history, how many times has that actually happened in a situation such as this? That may be the business plan today, but this is a fluid business and tomorrow things may change. Us Colgan employees need to plan accordingly, just in case. We can't be reactive, it will be too late by then. We Colgan pilots flying out of our outstation bases on our EAS have been insulated from the labor problems plagueing the industry today. Not any more, things have changed, we've joined the "real world", and we must adapt accordingly. Does that mean union? I don't know, but we need to come together, look at our options and decide together. This could be a great deal for Colgan and Pinnacle, and I hope it is, though we have to stand up and acknowledge things are not always as they seem.

PS Save Leroy

 

[suupah]

Here are my thoughts. The Colgan family is looking out for their interests to make a return on their investment. They understand an airline is either growing or dieing, and they knew they don't have the capital to grow on their own. Pinnacle management is looking out for the interests of their shareholders and their bonus checks. Pinnacle ALPA looks out for the interests of their pilot group. WHO is looking out for the interests of the Colgan pilots/mechanics/flight attendants? George Dubya? Do we want to be in this situation? I know the press releases and management keep saying, "We want to keep it as it is." Looking back at history, how many times has that actually happened in a situation such as this? That may be the business plan today, but this is a fluid business and tomorrow things may change. Us Colgan employees need to plan accordingly, just in case. We can't be reactive, it will be too late by then. We Colgan pilots flying out of our outstation bases on our EAS have been insulated from the labor problems plagueing the industry today. Not any more, things have changed, we've joined the "real world", and we must adapt accordingly. Does that mean union? I don't know, but we need to come together, look at our options and decide together. This could be a great deal for Colgan and Pinnacle, and I hope it is, though we have to stand up and acknowledge things are not always as they seem.

PS Save Leroy

I think this is the sentiment of most colganeers. especially the familial concern for our brother (from another mother, and hopefully father too) leroy.

 

[Smarta$$]

Everything you two have said has some validity. But you are not looking at the big picture.

1. You are comparing your pay to our current pay. Our current pay was agreed too over six years ago and is subject to a sharp increase in our new contract along with work rule improvements.

2. You are not giving any attention to future whipsaw. Learn alittle bit from the wiser pilots on this board about how powerful whipsaw is against labor.

3. You say you wont sign anything until after you know how integration will affect you, but this would not be known by you until it was too late. Exact integration is not known until the two represented groups agree. If you don't have representation by the time negotiations begin, you won't have the oportunity to know before you sign.

4. Upgrades would not be longer on one list. I have heard your upgrades are 24 months give or take. Ours is the same or less and going down. We have significant rumors of large growth the same as you. There is no reason the two companies with 24 month uprades combined would have a longer upgrade. 9E pilots do not want to put you at the bottom of our list.

5. You say Pinnacle is apples and Colgan is oranges. We fly different types of routes and different types of airplanes. What is to stop 9E from flying Turbo-props in the future, We have done it before. What is to stop Colgan from flying jets. We were once an all Turbo-prop fleet and now we have over 127 jets. There is nothing other than our scope that prevents any of this from happening. Whipsaw is a certainty. And you say different codeshares, come on? You say that you HOPE Colgan never see's a jet? Hope in one hand and crap in the other and see which gets filled first.

6. You have NO protection. We have Protection. We have a scope clause that protects us from the company using our money to buy and GROW an airline without our pilots. We as 9E pilots made the money for 9E corp. to purchase Colgan. You have said that Colgan would not have the resources to grow with out Pinnacle investment. Where did the money come from ? The 9E pilots hard work and sacrifice. We Know that one large pilot group has infinetly more gargaining power than two divided groups. We have protection, We have a union and We have a scope clause. Barring a very unlikely loss in court, the lists WILL get merged. Our union has a duty to protect the best interest of its member pilots. One list is in the best interest of its member pilots. It is in your best interest as well, even if you don't see it yet.

Why am I taking the time to say all this? Because I am concerned that your misinformation might give other colgan pilots the wrong impression of our situation. As a 9E pilot, I welcome the Colgan pilots.

 

[BirdCatcher]

I think this is the sentiment of most colganeers. especially the familial concern for our brother (from another mother, and hopefully father too) leroy.

It may be, but it seems like most want to wait and see what happens, by then it will be too late. We have to act now, then hope for the best. Anyone that has been in this business long enough can tell you just because they PLAN on doing something some way, doesn't mean that is the REAL PLAN.

 

[suupah]

I see your concerns because i am sure that whatever they decide to do with our company is as well a kept secret as the buyout was.

However, I fear the 9e pilots union and what they would do with us more than management.

If we get into a situation where we get pasted to the bottom of the seniority list the Colganair shortcut to bigger and better things will become the longest way to the majors ever taken

 

[redflyer65]

Nice post SmartA. I agree with most if not all of it.

 

[AftCG182]

What's with all the "Save Leroy" stuff?

 

[Prop2Jet]

OK, what the hell is 9E? What is a whip saw....

I don't speaky ALPA lingo.

How could both companies merge seniority if the intention is to keep them separate? Maybe we are just forcing something we don't want to happen yet.

 

[Prop2Jet]

SAVE LEROY is our schedule dude who is cool, we don't want to see him screwed by this. He has a moon gym, a Tahoe and cute girl to take care of!

 

[suupah]

OK, what the hell is 9E? What is a whip saw....

I don't speaky ALPA lingo.

How could both companies merge seniority if the intention is to keep them separate? Maybe we are just forcing something we don't want to happen yet.

9e is pinnacle.

whipsaw is where a company plays two pilot groups against eachother. ex. pinnacle dangles 25 q400's infront of colgan and pinnacle and sees who will give them a better deal.

the 9e pilots on here think that if we are both union we will be unified against management and the whipsaw won't happen. I believe that if you look at the industry there are plenty of union shops undercutting eachother though.

QUESTION FOR 9E pilots. are you guys allowed to fly for other carriers?

 

[dingo222]

Everything you two have said has some validity. But you are not looking at the big picture.

1. You are comparing your pay to our current pay. Our current pay was agreed too over six years ago and is subject to a sharp increase in our new contract along with work rule improvements.

So we should join up now, so that we have to wait six years for a pay raise?

2. You are not giving any attention to future whipsaw. Learn alittle bit from the wiser pilots on this board about how powerful whipsaw is against labor.

You expect them to whipsaw, and so do we, but who knows. MAybe they will just use us to make money to grow pcl.

3. You say you wont sign anything until after you know how integration will affect you, but this would not be known by you until it was too late. Exact integration is not known until the two represented groups agree. If you don't have representation by the time negotiations begin, you won't have the oportunity to know before you sign.

4. Upgrades would not be longer on one list. I have heard your upgrades are 24 months give or take. Ours is the same or less and going down. We have significant rumors of large growth the same as you. There is no reason the two companies with 24 month uprades combined would have a longer upgrade. 9E pilots do not want to put you at the bottom of our list.

our upgrades stand to fall pretty significantly if they add more saabs to us in short order. We don't have massive amounts of reserve pilots. Hell, we don't have any. We run on average about 4 crews per plane. Thats about as lean as it gets.

5. You say Pinnacle is apples and Colgan is oranges. We fly different types of routes and different types of airplanes. What is to stop 9E from flying Turbo-props in the future, We have done it before. What is to stop Colgan from flying jets. We were once an all Turbo-prop fleet and now we have over 127 jets. There is nothing other than our scope that prevents any of this from happening. Whipsaw is a certainty. And you say different codeshares, come on? You say that you HOPE Colgan never see's a jet? Hope in one hand and crap in the other and see which gets filled first.

Pcl can fly all the props they want in the future. But if they take the props from colgan, they lose money instantly. THose props come from somewhere, and that somewhere is the United,continental, and US Airways flying. Those codeshares open the door for pcl to put jets on other carriers. The whole exsistence of Colgan is to fill the gaps in regional flying. We make money flying those old planes where others can't. We compete against air midwest, bigsky, commutair and regions. Not PCL,skywest, or any others.

6. You have NO protection. We have Protection. We have a scope clause that protects us from the company using our money to buy and GROW an airline without our pilots. We as 9E pilots made the money for 9E corp. to purchase Colgan. You have said that Colgan would not have the resources to grow with out Pinnacle investment.

Where did the money come from ? The 9E pilots hard work and sacrifice.

We know where the money came from. Not to be rude, but that kind of talking to us like we are little step brothers won't go over well here. Nobody is taking any credit away from pcl pilots or what you guys have gone through. I don't think too many pcl pilots totally understand the colgan culture.

We Know that one large pilot group has infinetly more gargaining power than two divided groups. We have protection, We have a union and We have a scope clause. Barring a very unlikely loss in court, the lists WILL get merged. Our union has a duty to protect the best interest of its member pilots. One list is in the best interest of its member pilots. It is in your best interest as well, even if you don't see it yet.

Why am I taking the time to say all this? Because I am concerned that your misinformation might give other colgan pilots the wrong impression of our situation. As a 9E pilot, I welcome the Colgan pilots.

[/quote]


misinformation? As in you are all knowing and I'm not? Dude, come on, I agree with most of what you've said. You are no more informed about what is going to happen that I am, or anybody else. It's all speculation at best. I'd say a union at colgan, whether we were merged with yours or started say our own alpa union would probably be welcomed by the majority of our pilots, IF, the union could show HOW they would protect us. IF it came down to say, "well, join now but wait and see at integration what happens to you" scenario, nobody would buy it.

I can't do this quote thing to save my ass!

 

[suupah]

Everything you two have said has some validity. But you are not looking at the big picture.

1. You are comparing your pay to our current pay. Our current pay was agreed too over six years ago and is subject to a sharp increase in our new contract along with work rule improvements.

No offense, but where is alpa on this one? Looks like the union hasn't done much here

2. You are not giving any attention to future whipsaw. Learn alittle bit from the wiser pilots on this board about how powerful whipsaw is against labor.

Wiser? Have you looked at the incredible mess Alpa has done nothing to help in the regional airline business? Has ALPA stopped whipsaw? honestly

3. You say you wont sign anything until after you know how integration will affect you, but this would not be known by you until it was too late. Exact integration is not known until the two represented groups agree. If you don't have representation by the time negotiations begin, you won't have the oportunity to know before you sign.

This is 100% true. I feel we need protection from your pilot group if integration occurs because it will be on your pilot groups terms.

4. Upgrades would not be longer on one list. I have heard your upgrades are 24 months give or take. Ours is the same or less and going down. We have significant rumors of large growth the same as you. There is no reason the two companies with 24 month uprades combined would have a longer upgrade. 9E pilots do not want to put you at the bottom of our list.

Would probably be longer for those that get stapled to the bottom of your list

5. You say Pinnacle is apples and Colgan is oranges. We fly different types of routes and different types of airplanes. What is to stop 9E from flying Turbo-props in the future, We have done it before. What is to stop Colgan from flying jets. We were once an all Turbo-prop fleet and now we have over 127 jets. There is nothing other than our scope that prevents any of this from happening. Whipsaw is a certainty. And you say different codeshares, come on? You say that you HOPE Colgan never see's a jet? Hope in one hand and crap in the other and see which gets filled first.

Dude, Colgan is such a different airline from any other out there. We clean our own planes! we are outstationed based, we don't do overnights. without that model colgan would probably not make money in these weak markets that we have thrived in. They are very very different companys right now. going ahead in the future that may change.

6. You have NO protection. We have Protection. We have a scope clause that protects us from the company using our money to buy and GROW an airline without our pilots. We as 9E pilots made the money for 9E corp. to purchase Colgan. You have said that Colgan would not have the resources to grow with out Pinnacle investment. Where did the money come from ? The 9E pilots hard work and sacrifice. We Know that one large pilot group has infinetly more gargaining power than two divided groups. We have protection, We have a union and We have a scope clause. Barring a very unlikely loss in court, the lists WILL get merged. Our union has a duty to protect the best interest of its member pilots. One list is in the best interest of its member pilots. It is in your best interest as well, even if you don't see it yet.

Yes, i agree we are naked in new york city right now. but as for the hard sacrifice, your right. However every colgan pilot has sacrificed just as much as you! 9E bought colgan because there is something to be gained for them. That something has alot to do with the SACRIFICES of every colgan pilot.

9E pilots did not buy colgan and 9E pilots do not own Colgan. I think we should be fellow pilots. equal. No more your flying is ours etc. no it isn't.

we sweat (no apu's) and bled to make this company successful and there is no way that just because you have alpa lawyers you can claim our work as a fellow pilot. in the courts, maybe but that is on your conscience not mine.

 

[Prop2Jet]

for all :

"speculation at best"

SO WHO THE F CARES. LETS C WHAT HAPPENS AND THEN PULL OUT YOUR ALPA GUNS!

Don't act like Iraqi's willing to shoot everything. Act like a calm and cool-tempered Marine sharp shooter and wait for the time and place to pull your alpa trigger.

You don't think that maybe just for 1 second that management is wanting both pilot groups to fight? I do.

Stay cool and wait it out to c what happens.

 

[arthompson]

Everything you two have said has some validity. But you are not looking at the big picture.

We as 9E pilots made the money for 9E corp. to purchase Colgan. You have said that Colgan would not have the resources to grow with out Pinnacle investment. Where did the money come from ? The 9E pilots hard work and sacrifice. .

I hate to break it to you but the pilots aren't the only work group at 9E. It's not just your sacrifice that allowed the company the money to buy Colgan, it's all of ours. Have you bothered to take a look at the work of the rest of the companies employees? Do you understand that it's not just the pilots that don't make any money here, it's all of us? I work hard and am sure as heck not getting rich doing it. As a company we not only make money for each departure we also make money from the work of our Customer Service/Ground Operations staff. In *AT LEAST* 10 stations we handle other carriers (NW/XJ/CO) which provides income basically straight to the bottom line. I'm not saying that you don't work hard, or that the pilots don't sacrifice, but get off your high horse and realise you aren't the only employee at the company.

 

[Smarta$$]

I read your post very carefully, and can see that you still don't understand the situation. I think you spent more time trying to argue with me and less time with the content of my post.

Example?

1. You say that you would have to wait six more years. What? We have made progress already, unified we would make more. Two thirds of the SIX years you speak of were under an a contract that was not ammendable or "not expired" (although they don't expire). We have been negotiating for less than 2 years. So if by wait another 6 years you meant less than 2, than maybe. But together probably not since we are already in mediation.

2. You expect them to whipsaw, but somehow that isn't a problem for you.

3. Upgrades? We are getting more planes very soon and our upgrade will be going down significantly as well. Infact the company wants to lower our upgrade mins from 3000 to 1800-2000. Why would they do that unless they knew we will need it soon. Also, many if not most of our pilots live in base and would not want to commute to a Colgan base and "steal" your upgrade. If anything I would see the oposite happening. I stand by my previous statement that your upgrades would be substancially unchanged, even considering Colgan growth. Something you were unable to due. As far as running lean, 9E staffs its airline through junior manning and extentions. I think we are equally lean. By the way, you can't compare crews per airplane because the aircraft utilization could be much less.

4. You totally missed the point about integration. There most likely is not an if we integrate but a when. We have scope over the company that bought you. You do not. This is not a join us or agianst us thing. It is a legal contract that Alpa will defend aggressively. Integration is something that is negotiated between the two parties. You dont have a union, so who would negotiate on YOUR behalf. You see, even if you don't join Alpa, there will be a negotiation about integration. If you don't vote a union first, you will not get to decide. It will get decided for you and your know first, sign later will never happen. Your missing the point. Your campany was purchased by an ALPA airline with a strong scope close protecting its member pilots. Who protects you? You don't get to "buy" it, as you put it.

I just want you to understand more than you do. It is not an insult. I have lost a job because that airline did not have sufficient scope. This is a different situation and NONE of our pilots from either airline will lose there job or even be substantially harded by an integration. Our only enemy is Whipsaw.

 

[stlflyguy]

Colgan pilots should consider collectively hiring a RLA attorney to consult and examine the Pinnacle pilots' contract. Any one clause in the scope/successorship clauses of the Pinnacle contract that may put the Colganites at a disadvantage should trigger an interest in seeking representation.

I understand the differences between Pinnacle/Colgan and Skywest/ASA, but all it would take is for the Pinnacle pilots to demand Colgan's flying or for the holding company to start placing jets on the Colgan certificate.

Check it out...get all the answers. CYA!

stlflyguy

 

[IslandDriver]

Here is a thought......

PSA and Piedmont are both wholly owned by USAir.....do they have anything in common? Do they have one seniority list? 9E people think they bought Colgan....look at it from a corporate stance....we are both equally owned by a mother company...like Piedmont and PSA....

There will be no integration of the list or the flying......

No loss to the industry but if things do not stay "Colgan Like" the Colgan side will lose half of the pilots.....

Most of them will be from the left seat...so there goes the profits...upgrades and new hires....like $40,000 every time a captain leaves...try to grow and make money like that.....

And I have to go with the stance......What does ALPA care about a little airline with 350 pilots....ALPA has done so much for other carriers...iof Colgan does anything they should go Teamsters.....Ask any NJA guy or Airborne guy...much better contracts...

 

[suupah]

One more point i would like to make.

Colgan air makes its money primarily on its own. We are not a "fee for departure shop" for the most part. We make money on our ticket sales. That makes us pretty much zero risk for USairways. I am not sure any other regional out there would make money with that model.

Most regionals made money by the blood of their parent carriers employees.

 

[bigboeings]

Any word on how to fly the EAS routes that can only handle a 1900. Just curious.

 

[dingo222]

as in what for the eas routes?

 

[bigboeings]

Can you fly the SAAB into BHB and RKD basically is what I was wondering?

 

[Smarta$$]

No offense, but where is alpa on this one? Looks like the union hasn't done much here

What does this mean? I said we will soon enjoy better pay and work rules and then you say " what has alpa done?"


Wiser? Have you looked at the incredible mess Alpa has done nothing to help in the regional airline business? Has ALPA stopped whipsaw? honestly

Yes I can, this discussion is about whipsaw within a holding company. Mesa\Freedom, Chautauqua\Shuttle\Republic(teamsters, but still union), However, goatjet\TSA was a failure. 2 out of 3 for Unions is better than 0 out of three without a union.



This is 100% true. I feel we need protection from your pilot group if integration occurs because it will be on your pilot groups terms.

That is what I am saying, who is looking out for you. To be honest, we would look out for you, but your own Alpa would do better.


Would probably be longer for those that get stapled to the bottom of your list

I have already said that you sould not be stapled to the bottom.



Dude, Colgan is such a different airline from any other out there. We clean our own planes! we are outstationed based, we don't do overnights. without that model colgan would probably not make money in these weak markets that we have thrived in. They are very very different companys right now. going ahead in the future that may change.

Exactly, Which totally negates the first part of the paragragh as irrelevant.



Yes, i agree we are naked in new york city right now. but as for the hard sacrifice, your right. However every colgan pilot has sacrificed just as much as you! 9E bought colgan because there is something to be gained for them. That something has alot to do with the SACRIFICES of every colgan pilot.

9E pilots did not buy colgan and 9E pilots do not own Colgan. I think we should be fellow pilots. equal. No more your flying is ours etc. no it isn't.

we sweat (no apu's) and bled to make this company successful and there is no way that just because you have alpa lawyers you can claim our work as a fellow pilot. in the courts, maybe but that is on your conscience not mine.

Yes, naked in new york. That is why I am asking you to work together in the best interest of BOTH pilot groups.

I never said you guys didn't not sacrifice. I have complete respect for your pilots. I was commenting on YOUR words about Colgan needing 9E investment to grow.

 

[dingo222]

I'm not sure. I know some of those airports are certified for the saab, and some are not. MAybe a 1900 driver on here would know. I'm sure we'd keep the 1900's on the airports that couldn't be served by anything else. They are looking to mave some beeches over to saabs, but i think its altoona, shd, and white plains.

 

[Smarta$$]

I hate to break it to you but the pilots aren't the only work group at 9E. It's not just your sacrifice that allowed the company the money to buy Colgan, it's all of ours. Have you bothered to take a look at the work of the rest of the companies employees? Do you understand that it's not just the pilots that don't make any money here, it's all of us? I work hard and am sure as heck not getting rich doing it. As a company we not only make money for each departure we also make money from the work of our Customer Service/Ground Operations staff. In *AT LEAST* 10 stations we handle other carriers (NW/XJ/CO) which provides income basically straight to the bottom line. I'm not saying that you don't work hard, or that the pilots don't sacrifice, but get off your high horse and realise you aren't the only employee at the company.

Easy fella, this was a discussion about pilot integration. The other PILOT said that Colgan need 9E investment to grow. From a PILOT integration discussion stand point, I was saying that it was 9E PILOTS that made that possible, not Colgan PILOTS. Now some have taken this to mean that Colgan pilots have not worked or sacrificed. That was not the discussion. Its was about needing 9E investment to grow Colgan.

Now you have taken this to mean that no other employee group has contributed, which again is taken WAY out of context. The discussion was about PILOT integration. I am well aware and very greatful for the sacrifices that our whole team has made. I am aware of how poorly rewarded all 9E employees are, but it was not relevant to the topic.

By the way, thank you for all the thankless work you do. You deserve a livable wage that represents your contribution.