Logbook Issue - suggestions

[PositionandHold]

When I started instructing, for reasons that I regret having, I stopped logging landings. I have about 200hrs of dual given now, and no landings logged in that period.

I stopped logging them because most of them technically were not my landings. Is this going to be a problem?

Whether or not it is, if I want to retrolog these, how would I go about it? Would I just log a standard "1" for every lesson and/or guesstimate based on the lesson done, or should I just leave it?

Look forward to your suggestions

P&H

 

[Amish RakeFight]

Listen to that little inner voice.... his voice sounds much like the good brother (read:CYA) of the evil twin who works for the FAA.

 

[PositionandHold]

what





.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

...but moving forward, one idea is to split the landing box diagonally. In the top half, insert the digit for student or student-assisted, landings. In the bottom half, log the landings you perform as sole manipulator. As a CFI, you should be able to work in a few "demonstrations" for your student on how a proper pattern and landing is accomplished. You should in the very least be able to keep current under this method.

 

[PositionandHold]

Not a bad idea. The landing box is barely big enough for more than 2 digits as it is, though.

The problem I am having is what to do about the past landings that I did not log. Is there any standard protocol that people use? I was thinking just a standard 1.

 

[down2mins]

Do you need to log them for something in particular? (Maybe I'm missing something...)
I only log the landings I do / demo / recover.

 

[AC560]

Do you need to log them for something in particular?

Currency?

 

[down2mins]

Logging landings for currency that you don't do???

I don't log landings my students do while I'm just sitting there.

 

[AC560]

Logging landings for currency that you don't do???

I think you are misreading what he said. He hasn't logged any landings in the past 200hrs including landings he did.

 

[Jedi_Cheese]

I just plop down a landing every few lessons if I can't remember (and usually I'm doing the right rudder to align the aircraft with the runway).

I would put down a few landings here or there (look at your students, the guys who had just started out on lessons 1-3 will be the guys you add landings to - maybe add a demo landing to someone you were working on landings with before solo). It looks weird if you add a single landing to each lesson.

 

[JediNein]

If I had to intervene to make sure we come out of the arrival alive, I log it.
If I don't, I don't.
If I have a long stretch where my clients don't need landing assistance, I ask 'em for a landing. I've never been refused.

The minimums are 3 in 90 days.

 

[down2mins]

I think you are misreading what he said. He hasn't logged any landings in the past 200hrs including landings he did.

Ah, gotcha. Sorry 'bout that.

I agree with Jedi Cheese...

 

[down2mins]

double post...

 

[midlifeflyer]

I'm completely confused by the post. It sounds like a CFI who

(1) didn't know the regulations well enough to know that he needed to maintain his own landing currency when giving primary instruction; and

(2) is trying to figure out whether it's a good idea to falsify his logbook by making some up.

I must be missing something.

BTW, I'll question (but not necessarily disagree) with part Jedi Nein's post. The standard for logging landings for currency is "sole manipulator of the controls" not "had to intervene."

Of course, if the intervention means that the student is just following along but the CFI is doing =all= the work, then the CFI probably is the "sole manipulator." If it's just "helping out," IMO, the CFI can't log it.

 

[AC560]

BTW, I'll question (but not necessarily disagree) with part Jedi Nein's post. The standard for logging landings for currency is "sole manipulator of the controls" not "had to intervene."

QUESTION: I have a question about Part 61 related to the landings a CFI can use to maintain currency for carrying passengers. FAR 61.57 (a)(1)(i) and (b)(1)(i) stating that the person must be the sole manipulator of the controls seems pretty straight forward to me. However, we've had some discussions about whether FAR 61.51(e)(3) - an authorized instructor may log as PIC time all flight time while acting as an authorized instructor. For example, during the previous 90 days a CFI has one night flight and oversees his student doing 3 landings to a full stop. The CFI never touches the controls. However, the instructor is allowed to log the entire flight as PIC. Does this allow a CFI to count landings by the individual they're instructing toward his/her currency requirements for carrying passengers?

ANSWER: Ref. §61.57(a)(1)(i); No, an instructor cannot maintain/attain the §61.57 recent experience for takeoffs and landings while monitoring and critiquing takeoff and landings performed by another pilot/student. The application of the terminology "must be the sole manipulator of the controls" does apply to your question. Certainly, an instructor could use a takeoff or landing for currency if it is being demonstrated and the instructor is the SOLE MANIPULATOR OF THE CONTROLS. The rule [i.e., §61.51(e)(3)] allowing the instructor to log pilot-in-command does not suffice.

Source is John Lynch while it isn't a legal interpretation it is an interpretation by the guy who helped write the rules so would consider it sound.

 

[midlifeflyer]

Source is John Lynch while it isn't a legal interpretation it is an interpretation by the guy who helped write the rules so would consider it sound.

Well, on the other hand, the FAQ has been found to be wrong more than once, was removed by the FAA, and people told not to cite it. (That doesn't mean it was wrong on this one, just that it's dangerous to cite it fir much of anything other than an indication of how the FAA =might= approach an issue.)

 

[Amish RakeFight]

Well, on the other hand, the FAQ has been found to be wrong more than once, was removed by the FAA, and people told not to cite it. (That doesn't mean it was wrong on this one, just that it's dangerous to cite it fir much of anything other than an indication of how the FAA =might= approach an issue.)

I agree with you 100%.

 

[AC560]

That doesn't mean it was wrong on this one, just that it's dangerous to cite it fir much of anything other than an indication of how the FAA =might= approach an issue.

If you use it as a guideline for what you can't do you are reasonably safe, I wouldn't use it for a definitive source of things that I can do. In this case I think his interpretation is correct.

Key point in all this is make sure your log book is current and you are current (I like Logbook Pro for keeping track of currency).

 

[Goose Egg]

FWIW, I only log landings of which I was "sole manipulator" of the controls. I don't log landings where I assisted a student, because I was not sole manipulator. I was a manipulator, but not the sole manipulator, nor designated as such before the approach commenced. A student and I can both log PIC, but it seems a little sketchy to both claim credit for the same landing.

Besides, if I get my 3 every 90 days in category and class, then I don't really need to log landings where I assist, now do I.

My approach might be conservative, but at least it's legal.

-Goose

 

[JediNein]

BTW, I'll question (but not necessarily disagree) with part Jedi Nein's post. The standard for logging landings for currency is "sole manipulator of the controls" not "had to intervene."

Right. I wasn't quite clear there.

'Just helping out' is the student's landing.

'We'reallgonnadieifIdon'ttakeoverrightnow "my airplane!"' counts as my landing, if we actually touch down while proceeding with the go-around.

Ah, the joys of flight instructin'