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Jetblue starts SFO service

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lowecur

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 14, 2003
Posts
2,317
This was out of left field. More transcon service from the airline that said it wants to cutback on transcons. I guess this might put the final nail in the Virgin America story, but who knows.

:pimp:​

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/artic...hive/2007/01/09/BUGJSNF21D1.DTL&type=business


Martin of SFO Aviation says, " we hope to also get Virgin America to get more competition and lower fares. Its a win win for the consumer".

But another nail in the coffin for the industry and the employees. Fck the consumer, $99 transcon flight is what is killing the airlines.
 
But another nail in the coffin for the industry and the employees. Fck the consumer, $99 transcon flight is what is killing the airlines.

Regular fares will be $159 to $399 on this route. If I had to guess, with the effort currently underway to raise yields, average fares will trend above $200. This isn't 2003.
 
The next thing to come out of left field for lowecur will be LAX service. I'm hearing LAX growth because LGB is stuffed. Growth in the LA area along with a possible Bay Area domicile would be awesome for B6.
 
The next thing to come out of left field for lowecur will be LAX service. I'm hearing LAX growth because LGB is stuffed. Growth in the LA area along with a possible Bay Area domicile would be awesome for B6.
Yeah, it's going to happen sometime this year. DL will be evicted from T-5, and it's my guess Jetblue and a few other carriers will head on in. This from the LA Times:

Panel acts to control LAX terminals

The city Airport Commission votes to use up to $154 million to end airline leases at two facilities and open up slots for other carriers.
By Jennifer Oldham, Times Staff Writer

January 9, 2007


Despite intensive lobbying from airline representatives to delay the matter, the city's Airport Commission voted unanimously on Monday to spend up to $154 million to take over several terminals at Los Angeles International Airport.

By gaining control of Terminals 2 and 5, airport officials hope to free up aircraft parking spots for discount carriers and other airlines that have repeatedly asked to add flights at the world's fifth-busiest airport.

Airlines that operate in the two terminals said they will fight the takeover in court, contending the airport agency would be violating the terms of their leases.

"We're very disappointed," said Robert S. Span, an attorney with Paul Hastings, who represents Delta Air Lines, which operates in Terminal 5, and an organization of carriers that offer flights in Terminal 2. "We're going to evaluate our legal options."

But airport officials say the terms of the carriers' leases specifically allow the airport agency to buy back bonds the airlines used to finance improvements to the terminals.

Once these bonds are paid off, the agency can terminate the leases, officials say. The agency said it will move immediately to use cash and credit to buy back the bonds.

Through long-term leases, five carriers control a majority of gates at LAX, leaving airport officials unable to accommodate many requests from other airlines to add flights. More than 60 passenger airlines offer service at LAX.

LAX is unusual in that it operates only 3 1/2 of its nine terminals, through what officials now call an outdated arrangement. Most other major airports control a majority of their facilities.

The city's airport agency says several of the five carriers with long-term leases hoard their gates and use them inefficiently.

"We know that there are airlines that can use some of these underutilized gates," said Airport Commissioner Walter Zifkin. "We have a duty of fulfilling a public trust here."



Jetblue is in discussions with a few international carriers about partnerships. These will include JFK, SFO, and LAX. With the SFO announcement, Virgin America could be history. If that's the case, it wouldn't surprise me if Virgin Atlantic and their 49% owner (Singapore Airlines) will do a partnership with Jetblue. Just speculation of course.;)

:pimp:​
 
Exactly as I have been predicting.

With JetBlue's expected announcement of an international codeshare partner any time now, I have been saying to put your money on it being Virgin Airways if they start service to LAX and SFO.
 
Exactly as I have been predicting.

With JetBlue's expected announcement of an international codeshare partner any time now, I have been saying to put your money on it being Virgin Airways if they start service to LAX and SFO.

Are saying that JetBlue is really Virgin America?
 
Lowecur,

You know DL and the City if LA are still in talks over terminal 5 rent etc, and that is expected in BK. The BK judge won't allow LA to take anything away right now anyway. It will all be worked out, and that is why we pay our lawyers and law firms so much money. Those BK related costs sure are up there....


Bye Bye--General Lee
 
Are saying that JetBlue is really Virgin America?

Once upon a time, JetBlue almost was. If this puts the final nail into Virgin America, I think JetBlue may fill the codeshare role that VA was expected to. It's not a certainty, just a possibility.
 
Once upon a time, JetBlue almost was. If this puts the final nail into Virgin America, I think JetBlue may fill the codeshare role that VA was expected to. It's not a certainty, just a possibility.


I recommend that anyone interested go out and buy the book " Bluestreak" It is about the history of Jetblue before JB even had the name jetblue. There is some interesting info in there about Neeleman and Branson. They were originally going to start up together branson was dragging his feet and Neeleman decided he couldnt wait any longer. The whole Virgin America thing is proof that Branson obviously regrets that decision.

2007/2008 should be an interesting few years for the airline industry. Does anyone have a crystal ball or a roulette wheel to make any predictions?
 
Lowecur,

You know DL and the City if LA are still in talks over terminal 5 rent etc, and that is expected in BK. The BK judge won't allow LA to take anything away right now anyway. It will all be worked out, and that is why we pay our lawyers and law firms so much money. Those BK related costs sure are up there....


Bye Bye--General Lee
Have to get an injunction there GL. It may be tough as DL will have a tough time proving that they have been a viable tenant for those gates. Their utilization has been terrible (what 45-50 flts for 17 gates), and they still owe back lease payments.

Of course "the plan" has to be given to the judge in the what the next 30 days, so all this may be moot. That will have to include what DL plans to do with LAX gates. Man, I wouldn't want to be Grinstein/Whitehurst & Co, trying to spin so many plates at once. Doug can't be too happy with what's going on either at LGA & LAX. I think he planned on LAX being his Asian gateway. Maybe he'll lower his offer.:)
 
Didn't Cactus attempt transcon from LA and SFO once upon a time? Didn't Frontier attempt the same?


JetBlue has been in these markets for six years already, more or less profitably. They've drawn down transcons significantly in the last year or two as fuel prices have risen. They can get better fares from serving SFO so it's worth adding a few flights back in to capture that revenue. Especially if it puts the lie to just about any future press releases from VA about the "need" for low-fare competition and helps remove any political pressure to bring a startup LCC to SFO. I think this move was very astute.

I don't hold any personal ill will towards anyone at VA, but if it fails before starting up, I think we'll all be better off.
 
I recommend that anyone interested go out and buy the book " Bluestreak" It is about the history of Jetblue before JB even had the name jetblue. There is some interesting info in there about Neeleman and Branson. They were originally going to start up together branson was dragging his feet and Neeleman decided he couldnt wait any longer. The whole Virgin America thing is proof that Branson obviously regrets that decision.

2007/2008 should be an interesting few years for the airline industry. Does anyone have a crystal ball or a roulette wheel to make any predictions?

And Neeleman has a history of building airlines then selling out for the cash.
.....Morris Air to Southwest. And some Canadian Airline. I wonder if they will try to put those handful of Virgin America pilots on the top of your 1700 pilots. (ironic that a couple of the virgin pilots came from JB, and now might end up senior to all of you)
 
And Neeleman has a history of building airlines then selling out for the cash.
.....Morris Air to Southwest. And some Canadian Airline. I wonder if they will try to put those handful of Virgin America pilots on the top of your 1700 pilots. (ironic that a couple of the virgin pilots came from JB, and now might end up senior to all of you)

I think the water in your brain has frozen..
 
And Neeleman has a history of building airlines then selling out for the cash.
.....Morris Air to Southwest. And some Canadian Airline.


Hmmmm...

Some Canadian Airline...?

Your astute knowledge of Mr. Neeleman's history is staggering...
 
How is DL going to increase utilization of their gates? With ASA and Skywest.

That is exactly what UA did when it seemed like they were going to lose T8. They moved all the Skywest flights from the remote terminal and instantly trippled the utiliztion of T8. DL just had ASA open an LAX base and is restarting service to Mexico and the west coast.
 
And Neeleman has a history of building airlines then selling out for the cash.
.....Morris Air to Southwest. And some Canadian Airline. I wonder if they will try to put those handful of Virgin America pilots on the top of your 1700 pilots. (ironic that a couple of the virgin pilots came from JB, and now might end up senior to all of you)

Here's a clue: Branson couldn't get VA approved by the DOT because of foreign ownership issues. How could he possibly be allowed to buy JB? Just to feed your fantasy, VA is nothing more than a business plan until they have their own certificate and as such, there is nothing to merge and no seniority list to integrate.

I think what you missed was that JB may fill the gap VA was claiming in LCC service. And, that is why someone said JB is now VA.
 
How is DL going to increase utilization of their gates? With ASA and Skywest.

That is exactly what UA did when it seemed like they were going to lose T8. They moved all the Skywest flights from the remote terminal and instantly trippled the utiliztion of T8. DL just had ASA open an LAX base and is restarting service to Mexico and the west coast.
DL has had many moons to increase utilization and has done very little. There plan was to up departures from 45-50 per day to 70 per day by March. That is hardly the proper utilization for 17 gates. LAWA has gone to the BK judge twice to get DL to pay what they owe on the lease payments...no luck....they have been been given a stay. With the bonds paid off DL is no longer in the catbird seat as the terminal is no longer an asset. I believe LAWA can procede to evict DL and I would guess the only recourse the BK judge would have is to make sure that DL is allotted the proper number of gates for their 45-50 flts per day.

LAWA is still not happy with UAL and their turboprop a/c used at T-6 to fill out utilization. What goes around comes around, and at some pt they may find themselves in the same position.

Incidently T-2 is the only terminal at LAX that will be 380 ready with very few alterations. Singapore Airlines is scheduled to start deliveries of the 380 at the end of 2007. Since there are 8 jumbo jet ready gates at T-2, my guess is that will go to the 380 carriers. I would also guess it's possible that if Jetblue is going to partner with Singapore, LAWA may offer AS a nice lease deal at T-5 and then let Jetblue and other low cost carriers have T-3.

:pimp:​
 
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And Neeleman has a history of building airlines then selling out for the cash.
.....Morris Air to Southwest. And some Canadian Airline. I wonder if they will try to put those handful of Virgin America pilots on the top of your 1700 pilots. (ironic that a couple of the virgin pilots came from JB, and now might end up senior to all of you)


My point was that Neeleman was sick of waiting for Branson to $$hit or get off the pot.. He decided to go it alone with his existing funding and investors

Branson has since realized that he made a mistake in not partnering with Neeleman as 6 years later he would have had a domectic market of 50 cities to feed his international routes. This is the reason why Virgin America was invented.

Branson is probably now realizing that regardless of whether they get approval it will be very costly to reach the critical mass necessary to make them a viable company ( They have already borrowed an additional 50 million to remain operational and that was before the latest DOT rejection)

Now to answer your question: No I dont think that a company that has never flown even 1 revenue passenger will be able to staple us to the bottom of their seniority list . My best guess is that if some sort of strategic alliance is announced and VA is shut down, That the existing VA pilots would be given an opportunity to interview at JB.
 
David was not the only party in Morris air.

Her name is June Morris, I think she had a little to do with the sale.
 
Smoking man......you know it all!!

hahaha...how are you man?
 
Do you guys/gals think Singapore airlines would want to partner with JetBlue? I'm not trashing Jetblue but I think Singapore is famous for offering a certain level of service. I don't think a low cost carrier fits that bill. I know UAL, AMR, DAL have cranky employees, etc but they offer lay-flat first class seats and first class meals. Would blue chips cut it for someone who just paid $8000 to fly to LAX and needs to connect to JFK? I doub it.
 
good observation, but...

Do you guys/gals think Singapore airlines would want to partner with JetBlue? I'm not trashing Jetblue but I think Singapore is famous for offering a certain level of service. I don't think a low cost carrier fits that bill. I know UAL, AMR, DAL have cranky employees, etc but they offer lay-flat first class seats and first class meals. Would blue chips cut it for someone who just paid $8000 to fly to LAX and needs to connect to JFK? I doub it.

You are right of course. But with the impeding removal of a row of seats, and people already talking about a "differential product" it would be relatively easy to convert a couple rows to industry standard domestic narrowbody first class. Maybe we'll do it anyway, maybe it depends on if and what big intl codeshare partner we may get. But I'm sure that if any viable patnership required it, it would be quite feasible to make happen. Despite the outcries from think tank pundits, aviation news reporters, bloggers and day trading speculators who would decry the drop in the bucket deviation in the business model and all that good stuff.
 
My point was that Neeleman was sick of waiting for Branson to $$hit or get off the pot.. He decided to go it alone with his existing funding and investors

.

My point is that Neeleman has been known to start airlines, only to sell them later.

I dont care what he does, just trying to figure out how all of the pieces of this puzzle will fit together. I am a fan of jetBlue, I like flying around while watching TV. I am not such a fan of Branson ( which makes me think the rest of the USA isnt a fan of him either......Trump has The Apprentice, Branson had a similar show that failed after the first season). But the whole idea of Branson trying to get his airline going, and now you guys are saying that you might be his feeder puts a new twist to it.
 

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