Jetblue starts SFO service

[AKAAB]

And Neeleman has a history of building airlines then selling out for the cash.
.....Morris Air to Southwest. And some Canadian Airline. I wonder if they will try to put those handful of Virgin America pilots on the top of your 1700 pilots. (ironic that a couple of the virgin pilots came from JB, and now might end up senior to all of you)

Here's a clue: Branson couldn't get VA approved by the DOT because of foreign ownership issues. How could he possibly be allowed to buy JB? Just to feed your fantasy, VA is nothing more than a business plan until they have their own certificate and as such, there is nothing to merge and no seniority list to integrate.

I think what you missed was that JB may fill the gap VA was claiming in LCC service. And, that is why someone said JB is now VA.

 

[a320drivr]

Its called westjet

 

[skiandsurf]

Its called westjet

Thanks for the help.

Can you confirm

1) did he start westjet?

2) did he sell westjet?


8vATE.....what do you know about westjet?

 

[lowecur]

How is DL going to increase utilization of their gates? With ASA and Skywest.

That is exactly what UA did when it seemed like they were going to lose T8. They moved all the Skywest flights from the remote terminal and instantly trippled the utiliztion of T8. DL just had ASA open an LAX base and is restarting service to Mexico and the west coast.

DL has had many moons to increase utilization and has done very little. There plan was to up departures from 45-50 per day to 70 per day by March. That is hardly the proper utilization for 17 gates. LAWA has gone to the BK judge twice to get DL to pay what they owe on the lease payments...no luck....they have been been given a stay. With the bonds paid off DL is no longer in the catbird seat as the terminal is no longer an asset. I believe LAWA can procede to evict DL and I would guess the only recourse the BK judge would have is to make sure that DL is allotted the proper number of gates for their 45-50 flts per day.

LAWA is still not happy with UAL and their turboprop a/c used at T-6 to fill out utilization. What goes around comes around, and at some pt they may find themselves in the same position.

Incidently T-2 is the only terminal at LAX that will be 380 ready with very few alterations. Singapore Airlines is scheduled to start deliveries of the 380 at the end of 2007. Since there are 8 jumbo jet ready gates at T-2, my guess is that will go to the 380 carriers. I would also guess it's possible that if Jetblue is going to partner with Singapore, LAWA may offer AS a nice lease deal at T-5 and then let Jetblue and other low cost carriers have T-3.

imp:​

 

[clickclickboom]

And Neeleman has a history of building airlines then selling out for the cash.
.....Morris Air to Southwest. And some Canadian Airline. I wonder if they will try to put those handful of Virgin America pilots on the top of your 1700 pilots. (ironic that a couple of the virgin pilots came from JB, and now might end up senior to all of you)

My point was that Neeleman was sick of waiting for Branson to $$hit or get off the pot.. He decided to go it alone with his existing funding and investors

Branson has since realized that he made a mistake in not partnering with Neeleman as 6 years later he would have had a domectic market of 50 cities to feed his international routes. This is the reason why Virgin America was invented.

Branson is probably now realizing that regardless of whether they get approval it will be very costly to reach the critical mass necessary to make them a viable company ( They have already borrowed an additional 50 million to remain operational and that was before the latest DOT rejection)

Now to answer your question: No I dont think that a company that has never flown even 1 revenue passenger will be able to staple us to the bottom of their seniority list . My best guess is that if some sort of strategic alliance is announced and VA is shut down, That the existing VA pilots would be given an opportunity to interview at JB.

 

[Smoking Man]

David was not the only party in Morris air.

Her name is June Morris, I think she had a little to do with the sale.

 

[Longhorn]

Smoking man......you know it all!!

hahaha...how are you man?

 

[Green]

Do you guys/gals think Singapore airlines would want to partner with JetBlue? I'm not trashing Jetblue but I think Singapore is famous for offering a certain level of service. I don't think a low cost carrier fits that bill. I know UAL, AMR, DAL have cranky employees, etc but they offer lay-flat first class seats and first class meals. Would blue chips cut it for someone who just paid $8000 to fly to LAX and needs to connect to JFK? I doub it.

 

[IronCityBlue]

good observation, but...

Do you guys/gals think Singapore airlines would want to partner with JetBlue? I'm not trashing Jetblue but I think Singapore is famous for offering a certain level of service. I don't think a low cost carrier fits that bill. I know UAL, AMR, DAL have cranky employees, etc but they offer lay-flat first class seats and first class meals. Would blue chips cut it for someone who just paid $8000 to fly to LAX and needs to connect to JFK? I doub it.

You are right of course. But with the impeding removal of a row of seats, and people already talking about a "differential product" it would be relatively easy to convert a couple rows to industry standard domestic narrowbody first class. Maybe we'll do it anyway, maybe it depends on if and what big intl codeshare partner we may get. But I'm sure that if any viable patnership required it, it would be quite feasible to make happen. Despite the outcries from think tank pundits, aviation news reporters, bloggers and day trading speculators who would decry the drop in the bucket deviation in the business model and all that good stuff.

 

[skiandsurf]

My point was that Neeleman was sick of waiting for Branson to $$hit or get off the pot.. He decided to go it alone with his existing funding and investors

.

My point is that Neeleman has been known to start airlines, only to sell them later.

I dont care what he does, just trying to figure out how all of the pieces of this puzzle will fit together. I am a fan of jetBlue, I like flying around while watching TV. I am not such a fan of Branson ( which makes me think the rest of the USA isnt a fan of him either......Trump has The Apprentice, Branson had a similar show that failed after the first season). But the whole idea of Branson trying to get his airline going, and now you guys are saying that you might be his feeder puts a new twist to it.

 

[lowecur]

Do you guys/gals think Singapore airlines would want to partner with JetBlue? I'm not trashing Jetblue but I think Singapore is famous for offering a certain level of service. I don't think a low cost carrier fits that bill. I know UAL, AMR, DAL have cranky employees, etc but they offer lay-flat first class seats and first class meals. Would blue chips cut it for someone who just paid $8000 to fly to LAX and needs to connect to JFK? I doub it.

Yeah, I do. Singapore owns 49% of Virgin Atlantic and is code sharing with them. If Virgin Atlantic does a deal with Jetblue, it's possible Singapore may be right behind. It's also possible Jetblue could form strategic alliances with other Asian carriers if they are going to operate from both SFO and LAX. Jetblue doesn't present the international threat that the legacy's do, so a transition for strategic alliance would be more viable.

Don't discount the fact that Jetblue will go to a 2 class airline at some point. Martin St. George, the Vice President of Planning is a proponent and previous creator of Premium Plus service at UAL.

imp:​

 

[Dizel8]

Do you guys/gals think Singapore airlines would want to partner with JetBlue? I'm not trashing Jetblue but I think Singapore is famous for offering a certain level of service. I don't think a low cost carrier fits that bill.

Singapore, IIRC, is a member of the Star Alliance, hence UAL would be the obvious partner.

As for the Singapore passengers, well, I would imagine 20 in first, something like 44 in biz and the rest in coach. You know, those coach passengers just might like jetblue!

 

[Dizel8]

Thanks for the help.

Can you confirm

1) did he start westjet?

2) did he sell westjet?


8vATE.....what do you know about westjet?

He was a consultant for Westjet with an invested interest!

Want more info, here is their website: www.westjet.com. A litlle snippet for you:
WestJet was founded in 1996 by Clive Beddoe, Mark Hill, Tim Morgan and Donald Bell, four Calgary entrepreneurs who saw an opportunity to provide low-fare air travel across western Canada. Through researching other successful airlines in North America - and in particular low-cost carriers from throughout the continent - the team followed the primary examples of Southwest Airlines and Morris Air and determined that a similar concept could be successful in Western Canada.

 

[skiandsurf]

He was a consultant for Westjet with an invested interest!

According to this other website, he was a co-founder.

http://center.spoke.com/info/pjVfNh/DavidNeeleman

 

[BLUE BAYOU]

David Neeleman had a no-compete clause written into the sale of Morris Air for I think 5 years. In that time period, he helped develop a reservations system that made him $20 million, worked at SWA for a brief period and then helped found Westjet. All the while, he was working on his new "baby", Jetblue. I only refer to that because in talks I've had with him, you get the impression that he's with this airline for a long time. He truly lives and breathes this airline and since Morris, has had a love for the airline business. His goal: to make a respectable 400-jet airline that brings "humanity" back to air travel. An actual quote from a long-time BOS-PBI passenger today, "I've always flown Delta before you guys, but now I only fly Jetblue, you guys are the best!!!" Passengers like that keep the drive in people like Neeleman.

 

[8vATE]

Thanks for the help.
Can you confirm
1) did he start westjet?

2) did he sell westjet?
8vATE.....what do you know about westjet?

See previous posts or read "Flying High" or "Blue Streak"...
More info about Neeleman and some others....

Neeleman has a history of being innovative and putting together great teams of people.
He has been a part of several successful ventures.

Is it inconceiveable that he could leave JetBlue?
No.

Has he ever sold any of his JetBlue stock?
No.

Has his management team?
Yes.

When the JetBlue management team structured the IPO, did they sign themselves up for millions of shares of stock options?
No.

Does Neeleman/Barger make exorbinant yearly salaries?
No... They make approximately $250,000 a year which Neeleman donates to the employee catastrophe fund.

Are they saints... are they perfect...?
No..

But I tend to give these guys the benefit of the doubt and be realistic that they are trying to run a sustainable business while trying to do the "right" thing.

The airline business is not for the faint of heart.

 

[lowecur]

Singapore, IIRC, is a member of the Star Alliance, hence UAL would be the obvious partner.

So is US Airways, but I don't believe either code share with them, or would be future candidates.

Singapore may not be interested in any kind of alliance with Jetblue, but the SFO announcement has to raise the question. Attach that to what is going on at LAX with DL, and it sure lends itself to a possibility. We know Jetblue plans to announce some kind of an international partnership, so it will be interesting to see what unfolds in the next few months.

imp:​

 

[Dizel8]

According to this other website, he was a co-founder.

http://center.spoke.com/info/pjVfNh/DavidNeeleman

No point in arguing, you may well be right, however, this is what westjet. com says: "WestJet was founded in 1996 by Clive Beddoe, Mark Hill, Tim Morgan and Donald Bell, four Calgary entrepreneurs who saw an opportunity to provide low-fare air travel across western Canada."

I know Neeleman was involved, but how deep the involvement was, I guess you would have to ask him or them.

 

[oldxfr8dog]

See previous posts or read "Flying High" or "Blue Streak"...
More info about Neeleman and some others....

Neeleman has a history of being innovative and putting together great teams of people.
He has been a part of several successful ventures.

Is it inconceiveable that he could leave JetBlue?
No.

Has he ever sold any of his JetBlue stock? Yes he has, but not very much.
No.

Has his management team?
Yes.

When the JetBlue management team structured the IPO, did they sign themselves up for millions of shares of stock options? No, they got millions of stock GRANTS. Much better.
No.

Does Neeleman/Barger make exorbinant yearly salaries?
No... They make approximately $250,000 a year which Neeleman donates to the employee catastrophe fund. Not saying he doesn't earn it, but Barger has taken many millions by cashing in GRANTS. They're not working for fun.

Are they saints... are they perfect...?
No, of course not! Only PILOTS are perfect!

But I tend to give these guys the benefit of the doubt and be realistic that they are trying to run a sustainable business while trying to do the "right" thing. I think their "right thing" is keeping costs lower than anyone else's.

The airline business is not for the faint of heart.

And I think it's possible that DN could leave. He was REALLY pissed that the 320 pilots wanted a raise.

 

[AKAAB]

Removing a row and reducing the FA requirement by 25% is only one step in many to differentiate the product down the road. Once the row is removed, another row or two can be painlessly removed and a small business class installed without having to deal with upset flight attendants at the same time. The new product then plays into the international codeshare.

At the same time, LAX and SFO fill the gaps in service that JB needs to cover to make the codeshare work on both coasts. 51 cities and a cross continent connection look pretty good to the Asian and European operators.

For some reason, a lot of us seem to think ahead only one step at at time, but they are making some serious strategic decisions that build upon each other to reach the goal of being a feeder for Virgin Atlantic and Singapore.