9e Upgrade Mins.

[DoinTime]

What is a "dink jet?"

 

[YourPilotFriend]

What is a "dink jet?"

add +y

 

[NuGuy]

Not that all the PCL pilots are crap, a LOT of them are great pilots and great people, but hiring 500 hour wunderkids and expecting all of them to be ready to upgrade at 3,000 hours just isn't going to work.

A FEW might be able to do it (if they have superior airmanship skills and paid a LOT of attention as an F/O), but most won't.

Heyas Lear,

My $0.02 on your comments...

I've been around for a couple of hiring cycles now (<1988). Since each lasts at least a couple of years, you can see the newbies cycle back and forth in their attitudes. Those that entered the scene during a downturn are very appriciative of ANY opportunity, while those who enter at the peak tend to be a whiney bunch (What? 1 year for an upgrade? Fly a turboprop? You must be joking!).

This latest batch of wannabes (say since about 2002 or so), though, has me really scratching my head. I don't know if it's something about the type of people who get into flying these days or just a snapshot of the "current" generation. This batch tends to go past whiney, and is VERY agressive and argumentative whenever they don't get something they think they "should" have. This upgrade argument is a prime example.

There is also no appriciation of the art of flying, history of the industry, listening to some sage advice from someone more experienced or heck, even something outside their little sphere...everything is simply another box to be checked or hurdle to be jumped, rather than appriciating it for what it is. THIS I blame squarely on the school systems these days, where all they seem to teach is how to game the standardized tests or the college application process.

My nephew is in the process of applying to college. He listed about 10-12 activities...all over the map. I asked him if he really cared about any of them, and he told me flat out "no". I asked him why he didn't do one or two things honestly that interested him, and said that "it wouldn't count for anything". So there you have it...raising a whole generation to fake interest.

Nu

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

Don't forget our latest round of street captains... that was a greater than 80% fail rate.

I was the first upgrade class after the street captains stopped- we had a 100% pass rate.

I hear the fail rate has gone up considerably since then, though. 1800 hour captains is just a bad idea on a CRJ. I will make sure my family doesn't ride on our airplanes if that does begin happening.

 

[NuGuy]

Don't forget our latest round of street captains... that was a greater than 80% fail rate.

I was the first upgrade class after the street captains stopped- we had a 100% pass rate.

I hear the fail rate has gone up considerably since then, though. 1800 hour captains is just a bad idea on a CRJ. I will make sure my family doesn't ride on our airplanes if that does begin happening.

Heyas PCRJ,

Yea, trying the street captain thing can be a REALLY bad deal depending on the curcumstances.

Assume you are average Joe with some time that would make you an acceptable captain candidate, say 4000+ tt, lots of multi, lots of turbine with some previous PIC.

Now you have to run the gauntlet of basic indoc, sim training in a new airplane, fitting in with new company/airplane procedures AND dealing with instructors/checkairmen who are, no doubt, holding some kind of grudge because you are shorting the system.

That would be a tough nut for a pro who was really on their game who might already have some experience in the AC. Throw in someone with NO exposure to the aircraft or a "marginal" talent, and you can see why the bust rate is as high as it is.

Nu

 

[DoinTime]

add +y

I guess your to good to fly small jets huh? That is exactly the attitude that created this whole scope mess.

 

[JohnnyP]

....

Don't forget our latest round of street captains... that was a greater than 80% fail rate.

I was the first upgrade class after the street captains stopped- we had a 100% pass rate.

I hear the fail rate has gone up considerably since then, though. 1800 hour captains is just a bad idea on a CRJ. I will make sure my family doesn't ride on our airplanes if that does begin happening.

Ive seen things like this posted before, with respect to not letting their family ride on a certain flight because of the crews flight time.

My question is, how do you plan on making this choice? Are you guys going to go interview the captain during boarding, ask his hours/experience, then possibly actually get off the airplane, on xmas eve, on the last flight into your hometown, to go see your wife, that you havent seen in a week or so?

Come on guys, your going to board and catch that flight home, on xmas eve, even if the captain has only 2500TT.

 

[Lear70]

Come on guys, your going to board and catch that flight home, on xmas eve, even if the captain has only 2500TT.

If I can't sit in the jumpseat? Absolutely, I'll take UPS or FDX and be back in time to see the kids open their presents Christmas morning.

Case in point, one of AirTran's F/O's was sitting in the BACK of the Comair flight that crashed in LEX. The single best thing that could happen for safety is to allow CASS-approved jumpseaters to occupy the flight deck jumpseat regardless of whether the back is full.

When I was working at PCL I would actually check to see who was working the flight. Twice I sent my family on Continental or SWA instead of letting them fly with certain CA's.

There's a lot more major pilots who will find another way home rather than sit in the back of an RJ with an unknown crew in today's environment.

Similar with other regional airlines; I avoid Mesa and Freedom flights as well, somewhat just because I don't want to associate with an airline that employs people with such little moral fiber (yes, I know there are many fine people at those airlines, but also MANY people who were just looking for the quick upgrade and screwed over other airline's pilots).

Hey Peanuckle, hadn't heard about those guys. When did they get hired? The last round of street CA's I remember were hired in early '04 and had a very high pass rate. They hire a bunch more recently?

Might have something to do with a dwindling pool of available talent; most of the majors have recalled all the experienced guys, and the only guys with high PIC time are probably coming out of the Part 135 piston freight world. Taking one of those guys with high PIC and throwing him into the CRJ with a multi-crew environment in the 121 world are probably the only candidates left in the barrel until PCL raises the pay enough to attract quality applicants.

Pretty difficult transition.

Nu, good post. Difficult to tell, I don't understand the late-teen / early 20-something crowd anymore either. That's one of the reasons I like the idea of a college degree being a requirement; not just because they're smarter or better, although certainly more educated, but simply because having to go to college AND get your ratings AND get your flight experience makes you a more well-rounded and mature person (partly because of age) once you GET to that great job.

Certainly makes for a better month on the line with someone like that versus the spiky-hair, ipod-wearing, marginally-engaged 22 year old pilot who might have good stick skills but has no interest in that beautiful sunset, the incredible aurora borealis display further south than you normally ever see, or any other of the numerous joys of aviation that are the REASON I chose this profession.

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

Hehe.. hey I was 22 when I got hired! ...But had a 4 year degree and 1700 hours.


As far as the street captains, I was referring to the early 05 guys... that's when I upgraded. Well over 80% of those guys bombed one or more rides. I remember being in upgrade class and wondering what kind of retards we were hiring. I personally thought training was quite easy... new hire and upgrade. It's all what you put into it. The guys that made it seem to have done quite well, though.

 

[Grimper]

The disengaged spiky-hair F.O. is the collage grad. Glad your not the one doing the interviews.