9e Upgrade Mins.

[jc3]

So now that TM stood up to MGT and lost his job, do you think this new person will be a "yes man" and lower the Capt mins?

 

[PCL_128]

Our upgrade failure rate has been astronomical lately. Out of 8 people in the latest class, only 1 got through without failing an oral, checkride, or line check. Because of this, the FAA is already breathing down our necks. I doubt they'll react very kindly to a lowering of the upgrade mins.

 

[StuckMic]

Wouldn't you think the failure rate has little to do with a pilots total time and more to do with the training (or lack thereof) he receives? Having a total time requirement to upgrade that is greater than ATP minimums makes no sense.

 

[jc3]

Yeah, I heard that also, but doesn't that show how bad the training dept is and not the pilots.

 

[jc3]

You beat me to it Stuckmic

 

[Fly4hire]

Wouldn't you think the failure rate has little to do with a pilots total time and more to do with the training (or lack thereof) he receives? Having a total time requirement to upgrade that is greater than ATP minimums makes no sense.

The inexperience that statement reflects is exactly why they need higher minimums.

I would refuse to let anyone I care for fly on a airliner with a 1500 hr Captain and a 500 hr F/O. I suppose you think a bare bones ATP should be in command of a 747-400 as well? I think the upgrade failure rate reflects more than just thier training department. I think 3000 tt and a 1000 in type is pretty marginal already given the F/O experience levels as well.

It's not what you don't know that'll hurt you. It's what you do know that ain't so........

 

[jc3]

"It's not what you don't know that'll hurt you. It's what you do know that ain't so......."


Hmmm...........

 

[PCL_128]

Wouldn't you think the failure rate has little to do with a pilots total time and more to do with the training (or lack thereof) he receives?

Of course. The training department at PCL is abysmal at best. That doesn't change the FAA's perception, however. As long as they see a failure rate this high, there's no way they'll allow management to relax the upgrade mins. As I said, they're already breathing down our neck constantly.

Having a total time requirement to upgrade that is greater than ATP minimums makes no sense.

You can't be serious. You think it's safe to have a 1500 hour pilot with maybe 500-1000 in type in the left seat of a jet airliner with 50 paying passengers in the back? Sorry, but the last thing we need is another accident.

 

[DoinTime]

Yeah, I heard that also, but doesn't that show how bad the training dept is and not the pilots.

For all intensive purposes you cannot "teach" someone to be a captain. PCL could do a better job of teaching "book" knowledge but book knowledge has little to do with being a good captain.

The qualities of a good captain can be acheived one of two ways. Your either born with them or they must be aquired through extensive personal experience.

 

[Dumb Pilot]

I'm not going to discuss the capabilities of the training department in this thread but I'll share some of the experiences that I have lived while training here at PCL. The attitudes of the individuals that are coming through is horrible, lets talk about that for a second. People feel that this whole regional industry is something that they have to give a minimal effort to before they get their call from SWA, FDX or whatever.
People are NOT putting the effort that an upgrade class deserves because this whole aviation gig has being too easy for them, their idea of "roughing it" was reserve on the RJ and I heard somebody in ops the other day talking about the SAAB being "Old School" because it has partial glass. The command authority, basic instrument skills, crew management and people skills are basically non existent. I'm sure I've read somewhere that those are requirements for command.
I've had F/O's during OE asking me how junior the latest captain award went. "It will be nice if we get your approaches stabilized and your landings under control from the right seat before you start sending resumes to FedEx" I told him.
The simple truth is that the next generation of pilots that is going to the aviation schools that the regionals have become have no idea of what being a professional is all about. The last job they had before they became F/O's here envolved "Do you want fries with that order?" And that lack of overall experience about life in general, reflects in their attitudes of the industry owing them something, their attitudes of having paid my dues because I have flown a couple of thousand hours since my daddy paid for my training and their attitudes about all I'm here for is my thousand PIC.
More than the training being deficient, I would argue that their lack of overall respect and dedication for this profession is a major contributor to the high upgrade failure rate.

Some people have 3000 hours, others have 1 hour repeated 3000 times. I'm done with the "low time" discussion because for me 5000/1000 PIC. should be the minimums for upgrade.