Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Friendliest aviation Ccmmunity on the web
  • Modern site for PC's, Phones, Tablets - no 3rd party apps required
  • Ask questions, help others, promote aviation
  • Share the passion for aviation
  • Invite everyone to Flightinfo.com and let's have fun

SWA pilots cleaning the cabin???

Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Modern secure site, no 3rd party apps required
  • Invite your friends
  • Share the passion of aviation
  • Friendliest aviation community on the web
I rode jump seat today on SWA and when we arrived at destination I helped the FAs clean and cross belts. So did the Captain and FO.
It gets the airplane ready for push a lot faster when everyone pitches in. This is how SWA can pull in a few mins lates and still push on time. This is because SWA employees know that an airplane on the ground makes 0.00$.

The funny part to this story...I don't work for SWA. I fly a freighter so instead of sweeping out the back, I crossed some belts...kind of a nice change.
 
Not only do I tidy up the cabin when I can...but I also do it when I non-rev....including turning off any reading lights that may have been left on.

In addition, when D/H-ing or commuting, if I'm riding in the cabin, I've been known to help by passing out peanuts in flight...

This place ain't for everybody, but compared to my old legacy carrier....it continues to be a breath of fresh air.

Tejas

Tejas
 
Regarding the van ride, you get paid for 30 minutes, if it takes 45 minutes, you get paid for 30, if it takes 15, you get paid for 30. In essence, your getting paid for the van ride, not how much time it takes to ride the van.

I have never got to the Hotel 15 minutes after blocking in. Do you sometimes stay in hotels in the terminal?

On an average, I get to our hotels 45 minutes to an hour after blocking in.
 
Not that I’m against teamwork, but having pilots clean up the cabin after a flight sends a very confusing signal to the rest of the employees/workforce. It also does not look good to the passengers. It cheapens the profession and makes it seem that it is more important to pick up trash than completing a thorough preflight and briefing.

The pilot’s are traditionally the highest paid labor on the property and managements will go to great lengths to encourage the continued denigration of our profession. They love to see and hear about pilots to see picking up trash.

Are we professionals or not? Do you see your management’s picking up the trash or mopping the floors on a daily basis? Moreover, the F/A’s soon start to expect it and if the next guy doesn’t do it, then he’s the jerk. Also, where does it end? At level-off when the work load dies down, do we go back and help with service. Do we let F/A’s help program the FMC’s. Do we let F/A’s do our walk-arounds? You know, it’s all in the name of team work.

At Southwest it is a very different atmosphere than at the rest of the legacies. Herb has it built-in to your culture that everyone helps and that have proved very successful over the years. The LUV pilots are paid quite handsomely for their extra efforts. Meanwhile, it vastly different for the abused labor force at the legacies where pay is down and moral is in the gutter. Management wants a “one size fits all” policy for all its labor.

If the pilot profession is to get back to its rightful place, we must differentiate ourselves from the F/A’s and cleaners. Herb may be down throwing bags a couple of times a year, but you sure as hell don’t see him doing every day. Here at American, management’s mission is to treat everyone from the janitor up to the pilots the same way – same benefits, profit sharing, etc. It’s our job to make sure it doesn’t happen.

Look at it this way; in the long run we are not pulling up the other employees as much as they are pulling us down to theirs. Do we see ourselves merely as computer operators or someone that is solely responsible for hundreds of lives when we are up in the air? Believe me, it’s an institutional question for all of us. The pay is vastly different between the two. Need I say how management views the pilot force?

AA767AV8TOR
 
Oh, I forgot, I do get paid for going the extra mile for my company--It's called profit sharing. Any of you, looking down your nose at this attitude, have that at your company? Didn't think so...

My company does. However, it hasn't paid a dime since the principals got caught embezzling funds, and they've been denying it in court for the past five years. Would you go the extra mile for These People?
 
Oh, I forgot, I do get paid for going the extra mile for my company--It's called profit sharing. Any of you, looking down your nose at this attitude, have that at your company? Didn't think so...

737ski,

Not wishing anything bad on you, but it could be a different story once your fuel hedges run out. As many of us at the legacies have rudely found out, those profit sharing checks are not automatic. As pilots, you are the highest cost, so you will be in management cross hairs as the profit margins narrow. You might not be so happy to help once you realize you are subsidizing the other employee’s pay.

AA767AV8TOR
 
Not that I’m against teamwork, but having pilots clean up the cabin after a flight sends a very confusing signal to the rest of the employees/workforce. It also does not look good to the passengers. It cheapens the profession and makes it seem that it is more important to pick up trash than completing a thorough preflight and briefing.

The pilot’s are traditionally the highest paid labor on the property and managements will go to great lengths to encourage the continued denigration of our profession. They love to see and hear about pilots to see picking up trash.

Are we professionals or not? Do you see your management’s picking up the trash or mopping the floors on a daily basis? Moreover, the F/A’s soon start to expect it and if the next guy doesn’t do it, then he’s the jerk. Also, where does it end? At level-off when the work load dies down, do we go back and help with service. Do we let F/A’s help program the FMC’s. Do we let F/A’s do our walk-arounds? You know, it’s all in the name of team work.

At Southwest it is a very different atmosphere than at the rest of the legacies. Herb has it built-in to your culture that everyone helps and that have proved very successful over the years. The LUV pilots are paid quite handsomely for their extra efforts. Meanwhile, it vastly different for the abused labor force at the legacies where pay is down and moral is in the gutter. Management wants a “one size fits all” policy for all its labor.

If the pilot profession is to get back to its rightful place, we must differentiate ourselves from the F/A’s and cleaners. Herb may be down throwing bags a couple of times a year, but you sure as hell don’t see him doing every day. Here at American, management’s mission is to treat everyone from the janitor up to the pilots the same way – same benefits, profit sharing, etc. It’s our job to make sure it doesn’t happen.

Look at it this way; in the long run we are not pulling up the other employees as much as they are pulling us down to theirs. Do we see ourselves merely as computer operators or someone that is solely responsible for hundreds of lives when we are up in the air? Believe me, it’s an institutional question for all of us. The pay is vastly different between the two. Need I say how management views the pilot force?

AA767AV8TOR


Very well said!
 
Not that I’m against teamwork, but having pilots clean up the cabin after a flight sends a very confusing signal to the rest of the employees/workforce. It also does not look good to the passengers. It cheapens the profession and makes it seem that it is more important to pick up trash than completing a thorough preflight and briefing.


Are we professionals or not? Do you see your management’s picking up the trash or mopping the floors on a daily basis? Moreover, the F/A’s soon start to expect it and if the next guy doesn’t do it, then he’s the jerk. Also, where does it end? At level-off when the work load dies down, do we go back and help with service. Do we let F/A’s help program the FMC’s. Do we let F/A’s do our walk-arounds? You know, it’s all in the name of team work.

At Southwest it is a very different atmosphere than at the rest of the legacies. Herb has it built-in to your culture that everyone helps and that have proved very successful over the years. The LUV pilots are paid quite handsomely for their extra efforts. Meanwhile, it vastly different for the abused labor force at the legacies where pay is down and moral is in the gutter. Management wants a “one size fits all” policy for all its labor.

If the pilot profession is to get back to its rightful place, we must differentiate ourselves from the F/A’s and cleaners. Herb may be down throwing bags a couple of times a year, but you sure as hell don’t see him doing every day. Here at American, management’s mission is to treat everyone from the janitor up to the pilots the same way – same benefits, profit sharing, etc. It’s our job to make sure it doesn’t happen.

Look at it this way; in the long run we are not pulling up the other employees as much as they are pulling us down to theirs. Do we see ourselves merely as computer operators or someone that is solely responsible for hundreds of lives when we are up in the air? Believe me, it’s an institutional question for all of us. The pay is vastly different between the two. Need I say how management views the pilot force?

AA767AV8TOR
My preflight briefings don't take that long. When the oportunity arrises and if they need help...I'm there. IF, I'm tied up with bad wx, unique MELs, or anything else in the cockpit that requires my attention...then this leg I'm conducting the flight deck orchestra.

As for the FAs, I don't think they expect it. As I said above, sometimes we just don't have time for it. And thats okay...I bet they understand.

My ego and self image is not hurt by going out side the lines to help out. I've thrown bags, helped in the cabin, ran and got food for my crew during a turn, hoofed a couple of lost items to other gates that pax have left behind...PDA, Yankees hat (ugh, go SOX) teddy bear...just to name a few.

And I'm sure Herb would've been out there more if his duties allowed it. He still had to run an airline. Point is that he DID do it. ...similar to what my first response was.


...and I don't fly for SWA............ yet.............. Just a barbie jet for now
 
Everybody pitches in at SWA........why do you think they are so profitable?

Good for them!
 
737ski,

Not wishing anything bad on you, but it could be a different story once your fuel hedges run out. As many of us at the legacies have rudely found out, those profit sharing checks are not automatic. As pilots, you are the highest cost, so you will be in management cross hairs as the profit margins narrow. You might not be so happy to help once you realize you are subsidizing the other employee’s pay.

AA767AV8TOR

Once again you demonstrate a complete lack of understanding of either our business model or how our fuel hedge program works.

BTW very few of us clean the cabin on every leg, and if a FA "expected it" I wouldn't do it any more for him/her.

I'm sorry if you think I'm demeaning the profession, and for thinking you are a jerk.
 
Do we let F/A’s help program the FMC’s. Do we let F/A’s do our walk-arounds?
AA767AV8TOR

Sorry, I'll admit, last time I let the F/A program the box, we ended up in SNA instead of SAN. I had to beat her, biatch...
 
Once again you demonstrate a complete lack of understanding of either our business model or how our fuel hedge program works.

BTW very few of us clean the cabin on every leg, and if a FA "expected it" I wouldn't do it any more for him/her.

I'm sorry if you think I'm demeaning the profession, and for thinking you are a jerk.

You business model is based on high productivity and low labor costs to keep your ticket prices low. It’s not rocket science. Your pilot group is pretty much at the end of the line as far as squeezing out more productivity and your fuel hedges after 911 have masked LUV’s labor cost problem for the last four years. We shall see what happens in twelve months as the bulk of your fuel hedges run out.

Your management is faced with two choices if it wants to extend its string of consecutive profits when the company starts paying full price for most of its fuel at the end of this year – either start increasing ticket prices or start playing hardball with labor. My hunch is that they will start first with the ticket prices as they have been doing this fall, but if the legacies don’t get their pay up in the next few years, LUV will, at some point have to deal with the high labor rates or alter their business model.

All eyes will be on your airline next year to see how Herb deals with the problem.

Just realize the employee atmosphere is radically different at the legacies than with your airline. I’m happy you guys are enjoying life right now. You haven’t been abused yet. After being screwed in work rules, pensions, and subsidizing the other labor groups on the property with our pay cuts, perhaps you can understand why we are not rushing out to clean the toilets and vacuum the floors.

Now if you guys could just figure out a pension plan so you don’t have to work until you’re 65.

AA767AV8TOR
 
You business model is based on high productivity and low labor costs to keep your ticket prices low. It’s not rocket science. Your pilot group is pretty much at the end of the line as far as squeezing out more productivity and your fuel hedges after 911 have masked LUV’s labor cost problem for the last four years. We shall see what happens in twelve months as the bulk of your fuel hedges run out.

Your management is faced with two choices if it wants to extend its string of consecutive profits when the company starts paying full price for most of its fuel at the end of this year – either start increasing ticket prices or start playing hardball with labor. My hunch is that they will start first with the ticket prices as they have been doing this fall, but if the legacies don’t get their pay up in the next few years, LUV will, at some point have to deal with the high labor rates or alter their business model.

All eyes will be on your airline next year to see how Herb deals with the problem.

Just realize the employee atmosphere is radically different at the legacies than with your airline. I’m happy you guys are enjoying life right now. You haven’t been abused yet. After being screwed in work rules, pensions, and subsidizing the other labor groups on the property with our pay cuts, perhaps you can understand why we are not rushing out to clean the toilets and vacuum the floors.

Now if you guys could just figure out a pension plan so you don’t have to work until you’re 65.

AA767AV8TOR

Thank God you are at AA...and not here...a breath of fresh air. Being at AA makes you realize what really goes on at SWA. I don't know what goes on at AA...nor will I pretend to...but I know a lot about SWA. Stick to what you know...you know AA, and you fly planes. The day you become a CEO, and work for SWA then you can talk about SWA...in the meantime stick with what you do best. If it was that easy then everyone would be making money like SWA. SWA did not become profitable last quarter...they became profitable 30 years ago...it is way beyond fuel hedges. Things might change but this has worked for a while for a reason...and how is it that SWA was the only one that did this hedging thing? not by luck...that I do know.
 
Last edited:
You business model is based on high productivity and low labor costs to keep your ticket prices low. It’s not rocket science. Your pilot group is pretty much at the end of the line as far as squeezing out more productivity and your fuel hedges after 911 have masked LUV’s labor cost problem for the last four years. We shall see what happens in twelve months as the bulk of your fuel hedges run out.

Your management is faced with two choices if it wants to extend its string of consecutive profits when the company starts paying full price for most of its fuel at the end of this year – either start increasing ticket prices or start playing hardball with labor. My hunch is that they will start first with the ticket prices as they have been doing this fall, but if the legacies don’t get their pay up in the next few years, LUV will, at some point have to deal with the high labor rates or alter their business model.

All eyes will be on your airline next year to see how Herb deals with the problem.

Just realize the employee atmosphere is radically different at the legacies than with your airline. I’m happy you guys are enjoying life right now. You haven’t been abused yet. After being screwed in work rules, pensions, and subsidizing the other labor groups on the property with our pay cuts, perhaps you can understand why we are not rushing out to clean the toilets and vacuum the floors.

Now if you guys could just figure out a pension plan so you don’t have to work until you’re 65.

AA767AV8TOR


Once again, very well said!
 


Just realize the employee atmosphere is radically different at the legacies than with your airline.
AA767AV8TOR

DING!!

I'll wager you guys will be burning your place down to get back to what you had long before we have to contend with any of your prognostication.
 
Did you leave a resume on each seat?
:beer:

I rode jump seat today on SWA and when we arrived at destination I helped the FAs clean and cross belts. So did the Captain and FO.
It gets the airplane ready for push a lot faster when everyone pitches in. This is how SWA can pull in a few mins lates and still push on time. This is because SWA employees know that an airplane on the ground makes 0.00$.

The funny part to this story...I don't work for SWA. I fly a freighter so instead of sweeping out the back, I crossed some belts...kind of a nice change.
 
a philosophical question

Look at it this way; in the long run we are not pulling up the other employees as much as they are pulling us down to theirs.

AA767AV8TOR



So let me get this straight... you're an American Pilot asking all SWA pilots to stop helping their co-workers in the cabin - to somehow better the profession?

Geez, there are clearly different wiring patterns in modern work-groups.
 
I don't know what everyone else likes to do between legs but personally I like to get off my flat ass and move around a little. Don't really want to go in the terminal and mingle with all the FREAKS. Sure not gonna sit in my seat for another 30 min. WTF else is there to do? Pick up a little trash, maybe go walk around the plane. Who gives a rats ass.
 
Its an amazing perspective. It is no wonder everybody hates everybody over there. How you can honestly think such nonsense is beyond me. You honestly think you are better than (and too good) to help out a fellow worker. Pal I have news for you you too are a blue collar labor slob. That attitude reminds me of the fat ass bus driver that is too good to get out of his seat to help the old lady in the door.
 
The million dollar question:

Did the pilot who was cleaning the cabin have a 737 type rating?
 
Its an amazing perspective. It is no wonder everybody hates everybody over there. How you can honestly think such nonsense is beyond me. You honestly think you are better than (and too good) to help out a fellow worker. Pal I have news for you you too are a blue collar labor slob. That attitude reminds me of the fat ass bus driver that is too good to get out of his seat to help the old lady in the door.


WOW very well said :)
 

Latest resources

Back
Top Bottom