ALPA National Seniority List

[Crizz]

Everyone is so up in arms about who is stealing who's flying and everyone undercutting the next. I'd like to start some discussion with good and bad about this idea:

Why dont the regional carriers who belong to ALPA simply form a national senority list with Airline/Base/Equipment/Seat all biddable on a national scale. Then, all "Major" airlines who are ALPA put a requirement that all applicants from 121 carriers must be ALPA members.

It seems this would be a surefire way to stop the whipsaw between ALPA pilot groups, and be a strong detractor from employment at non-union airlines. Heck, I bet Skywest would pass the union vote if they knew their options were limited as a result of not being a part of ALPA.

 

[PCL_128]

National seniority lists are impossible. The amount of bargaining leverage that you'd have to use to get management to agree to it doesn't exist at the regional level. Remember, ALPA doesn't set the seniority list unilaterally. You have to negotiate it with management.

The second idea of requiring that all new hires at majors be ALPA members is a very good idea, however. That wouldn't require an inordinate amount of bargaining power, and it would put a stop to the nonunion regionals like Skywest. Certainly something to be considered.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Well, for starters we can't even get ALPA to try to merge wholly owned carriers on one list - like ASA, Comair and Delta, Expressjet and Continental, the US Air Wholly Owneds, Horizon and Alask, etc....

When ALPA removes the critical parts of its merger and fragmentation policy at the whim of a mainline MEC who wants to protect career progression for military (non ALPA member) pilots it is pretty obvious ALPA flat cares less about the careers of pilots who don't happen to fly for a "major."

...and of course I would have to describe "major" as the flavor of the day. It changes based on the political wind.

 

[LowlyPropCapt]

Never happen. Absolutely positively impossible.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Well, for starters we can't even get ALPA to try to merge wholly owned carriers on one list - like ASA, Comair and Delta, Expressjet and Continental, the US Air Wholly Owneds, Horizon and Alask, etc....

.

How is a union going to get management to agree to hire, train and employ a pilot to fly thier jets who isn't an employee? IOW, just cuz ALPA says this guy has seniorty over another guy at another company doesn't mean the people who have operational control are going to go for it....

Or will they....

 

[~~~^~~~]

First, ALPA has to ask. With the exception of GoJets, they have not even bothered. ALPA, my union, has repeatedly expressed through its MEC Chairmen at Major carriers that they are more concerned with career progression of non ALPA members who may someday leave the military than they are with the hegemony of current ALPA pilots.

In our case, would Delta had traded perfect scope for being able to "right size" the fleet? I don't know, but 10 Billion dollars worth of 50 seat RJ's because of ALPA scope restrictions looks a little rediculous looking back from 2006.

ALPA using management as an excuse is beginning to wear thin. They need to take some initiative, provide some leadership and bring our union together.

 

[DoinTime]

Everyone is so up in arms about who is stealing who's flying and everyone undercutting the next. I'd like to start some discussion with good and bad about this idea:

Why dont the regional carriers who belong to ALPA simply form a national senority list with Airline/Base/Equipment/Seat all biddable on a national scale. Then, all "Major" airlines who are ALPA put a requirement that all applicants from 121 carriers must be ALPA members.

It seems this would be a surefire way to stop the whipsaw between ALPA pilot groups, and be a strong detractor from employment at non-union airlines. Heck, I bet Skywest would pass the union vote if they knew their options were limited as a result of not being a part of ALPA.

Getting management to agree to a single list would be the easy part. Getting pilots to agree to it would be the heavy lifting part of the project. Have you ever seen a merger agreement between two carriers ever come out with everyone happy? Nope...its never happened.

 

[Mr Wu]

Why dont the regional carriers who belong to ALPA simply form a national senority list with Airline/Base/Equipment/Seat all biddable on a national scale.

Pure laziness. The exact same reason that has a tool post about a subject that has been beat to death on every forum on every aviation website on the web. Try doing a search.

 

[Master Shake]

Well, for starters we can't even get ALPA to try to merge wholly owned carriers on one list - like ASA, Comair and Delta, Expressjet and Continental

FYI - We are not wholly owned. IF we were, we wouldn't be leaving the safety and wisdom of Larry Kellner's nest. (insert sarcasm here)

 

[pilotyip]

All contracts are local in nature, and considered in the best interest of that group. All locals bargain in their best interest, not the interest of other groups. i.e. Under the de-reg act of 1978 if an airline failed, the jobs at that airline were supposed to flow with the equipment as it moved to another air carrier. When the EAL airplanes flowed to USAirways and AAL, the jobs did not flown because pilots did not want those seats taken by someone not on their seniority list. ALPA is only a structure for the local to use in building a contract.

 

[kngarthur]

Everyone is so up in arms about who is stealing who's flying and everyone undercutting the next. I'd like to start some discussion with good and bad about this idea:

Why dont the regional carriers who belong to ALPA simply form a national senority list with Airline/Base/Equipment/Seat all biddable on a national scale. Then, all "Major" airlines who are ALPA put a requirement that all applicants from 121 carriers must be ALPA members.

It seems this would be a surefire way to stop the whipsaw between ALPA pilot groups, and be a strong detractor from employment at non-union airlines. Heck, I bet Skywest would pass the union vote if they knew their options were limited as a result of not being a part of ALPA.

Yea man! One seniorty list man! Then we can take all the guns in the world man! And put them in a rocketship man! and send it off into space--MAN!!!! Yea MAn!!!

 

[Crizz]

Its becoming more and more apparent that pilots are their own worst enemies.

 

[XJohXJ]

.....

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Its becoming more and more apparent that pilots are their own worst enemies.

Maybe... maybe not...

What is obvious is the problems are complex. The weak throw out ideas looking for instant gratification and when they don't get it, they cry out that the system is corrupt or unworkable and they pack up thier marbles and go home....

all while the strong understand that change takes patience, control, cooperation and methodology.....


As much as I disagree with Fins, he has valid points, I just don't agree on his methodologies at times... nonehteless I'd sit down at the table and work the issues with him....

 

[Publishers]

Each employer considers it sacred that they be allowed to hire who they want to. In many labor agreements, there is a clause clled "Managements right to Manage". This one thing would tke any chance of a national seniority list apart.
Secondly, pilots cannot agree on anything of consequence including their own contracts. When was the last 100% vote taken on a contract. If you have trouble getting a 51% vote on a contract, how is that going to go when you are talking different issues at different companies.
Lastly, who would want it, really????

 

[labbats]

Did you know that if everyone in the world didn't come into contact with another human for 3 days that it would wipe out the cold virus forever?

That's never going to happen either.