NWA wants to buy Mesaba

[kmox29]

Compass will have two seniority lists.

:laugh: The NWA guys are great at this...Red Book, Green Book, Blue Book...and now they can make a Brown Book for the Mesaba/Compass guys. Sweet.

 

[xjhawk]

well said

Not exactly, If NWA contracts all pilots get screwed. If NWA expands and the Mesaba pilots have mainline seniority, they will have better jobs. Also if NWA chooses to spin off Mesaba at a later date; with mainline seniority the Mesaba pilots would have the right to the 76 seat flying even if it went to mesa or someone else. In the current scenario, you are going to have mainline guys flying with mesaba pilots in the new aircraft. It's much better to have one list to not start the A vs. B BS.

I would think this is the best option. Besides think of it this way, what current NWA pilot in their right mind would take a position as a Saab FO, or even Captain! Besides, a seat reservation for current aircraft would solve that problem. No bumping of current aircraft for a # of years. The other thought would be that any new aircraft would go to those on furlough. this would sort of suck for those of us stuck in the saab....especially for the FO's. But in the long run, it would be good. I am sure the mainline guys would bypass to wait for a bigger plane, more pay. So in the end it would all work out. Sort of. Like any deal like this, most everyone would think they were gettting screwed in some way. But let me say this, even those on furlough right now....come on, think about it, having a mainline seniority number would make you have more options for your career. But somehow, i think that deal is too god to be true. I sure hope so.....I sure like those shiny new leather jackets that NWa has now! ha ha

 

[TAWS]

Don't kid yourself, NWA pilots will have so many fences up, it'll look like supermax over there! The senior guys at XJ will not go for this either. I think that NWA mngt wants to make the SAAB the recall aircraft for furloughees, thereby making it very undesirable for those guys to come back.
Before you say it, I know they would be offered Compass seats first, but what if NWA makes XJ, Compass??? Also, it wouldn't be like NWA to renegotiate a contract, after all, they are all lawyers - something underhand is going on here!

 

[Hulk Hogan]

I saw those new jackets. Thought the guy was Champion. I think he was pissed. Didn't talk to me anymore after that. owell cya

 

[xjhawk]

the funniest thing was that about the time it was getting cold last year i was asking why we could not have leather jackets, i saw a transstates guy wearing a brown leather one, it was way cool. I mean, what a great coat when you compare it too the ones we have now. The response i got from many was that it was unprofessional......looked like those ones that pinnacle have, and the guy did not want to look like them.....so no way....

Anyways, the guy we had trying for getting them was stalling at pushing too hard since the bankruptcy was announced.....then he went to city jet......so i have not heard about it at all. Heck, come next year, even without the clothing allowance, i would buy one. anyways, no new news yet, i am sure i will hold my breath on this thing and be dissapointed......and by the way, any senior guy at XJ that would say no to this would be an idiot...just looking out for his last 5-10 years he wants to be in msp in a 76 seat. i hope our union would see that a deal that could get us a number at NWA would be a good thing in the long term.....i stand by my origional statement, no nwa guy or gal would bump anyone from a saab....seriously....they do not want to go there again......oh, and not likely to a left seat in a crj.......opening up our furloughs to those seats.....besides which a lot of those are not coming back either. and the seniority system will block us at Xj from taking any mainline seats for years......it would all work itself out......lets see....just for starters....

36 crj's 360 pilots
36 EMB's 360 pilots
lets say.....how many options....well over 100

and retirments...

and those who left for good..

should cover all the fourloughs at NWA and XJ within the next couple years....

 

[gnx99]

I'd take a real leather jacket over those HORRIBLE Mesaba trench coats anyday. They are almost worthless in the cold.

Personally I'm not gonna get worked up over any of this NWA/Mesaba stuff. Way too many unkowns, and way too much speculation. I'm gonna open presents and drink egg nog instead

 

[xjlifer]

I'd take a real leather jacket over those HORRIBLE Mesaba trench coats anyday. They are almost worthless in the cold.

Personally I'm not gonna get worked up over any of this NWA/Mesaba stuff. Way too many unknowns, and way too much speculation. I'm gonna open presents and drink egg nog instead

Good plan..besides the people who really know those unknowns are the best at what they do. And no I do not admire them.

 

[Hulk Hogan]

I might do the leather, but heck no on the leather with stripes on the shoulder. I can tame my ego long enough to take my jacket off. Ohyeah, and not for the 9E price either (400+ from what I heard). NWA guy told me he paid 250 from the SOS? Still a lot for a work coat. Cya

 

[ARJLVR]

Personally I'm not gonna get worked up over any of this NWA/Mesaba stuff. Way too many unkowns, and way too much speculation. I'm gonna open presents and drink egg nog instead

That is the best idea I've heard so far. The NWA/Mesaba "unknowns" begs for rumor and gossip, but like a bad accident on turn two I find myself captivated by it. I didn't have egg nog so I settled for coffee with Bailey's Irish Cream and a shot of Kaluha.

 

[captain dad]

History has shown that NWA only does what is 1. cheap and 2. in its own best interests. I see Mesaba being bought and then Mair can expand Bigsky with no restrictions. There are some legal issues but considering who controls the judges... If the folks at XJ think that this buy out is a good thing "WAKE UP!" I spent nine years of my life there and regret not getting out five years ago. I miss my friends I left but couldn't take it up the tail pipe and still fly safe.

I see expansion but at a high cost, morally and financially. The cozy friendly mom and pop days are long gone. NWA is in full effect and they are running scared of all the merger buzz. BigSky is hiring captains off the street. This is for two reasons. 1. they are short 2. and more importantly, they are thinking ahead for how seniority will effect the company and upgrades durring an expansion. The more camptains they hire off the street the less base and seet jumping down the road.

Remember a wild animal is most dangerous when it's scared. Look out and if able, GET OUT!

PS Spanjers is a spineless, soulless, eunuch and should take himself out, to save someone else the trouble.

peace.

 

[TAWS]

NWA buys XJ.

MAIR is off the hook (despite what anyone says - they'll make it happen).

BigSky expands rapidly!

XJ becomes Compass, or a separate unit.

NWA spools up programs, then sells off the entire unit, just like MidAtlantic.

XJ guys get stapled to another list and NWA has a program that has been spooled up, the costs are carried by another unit (XJ), which they have gotten rid of and they retain the program for themselves.

Sounds ridiculous?? Ask MDA guys if this scenario would be far-fetched.

 

[YourPilotFriend]

NWA buys XJ.

MAIR is off the hook (despite what anyone says - they'll make it happen).

BigSky expands rapidly!

XJ becomes Compass, or a separate unit.

NWA spools up programs, then sells off the entire unit, just like MidAtlantic.

XJ guys get stapled to another list and NWA has a program that has been spooled up, the costs are carried by another unit (XJ), which they have gotten rid of and they retain the program for themselves.

Sounds ridiculous?? Ask MDA guys if this scenario would be far-fetched.

If I were to speculate, compass/XJ will be receiving the E195 for the DC-9 replacement. Looking at about 50 to 70 of those 195's. They will be placed at compass/XJ and not the mainline, however, per the NWA contract they must be staffed by NWA seniority list pilots. The E175 will be in this mix as well as the saabs. When NWA receives its last E195 it will then spin off compass/XJ in an IPO. They will dump the 76 seater program and the saabs out to the public and this will pay for the entire E195 program. Compass will then leaseback the E195's to NWA mainline for an overinflated fee.

 

[wmudriver]

If I were to speculate.

You, speculate, no way....just pulling your chain ypf.

 

[Cobraair75drvr]

ypf,

You can speculate all you want but there will not be an aircraft above 76 seats anywhere other than mainline. And the amount of 76 seaters above the avro replacements has a limit also based on how many 77-110 seat aircraft the mainline is operating. Go back to your cubicle.

 

[Fly4hire]

That is incorrect if Mesaba became wholly owned it is not entitled to those 36 jets no strings attached. As per the NWA agreement once mesaba becomes fully owned and takes on a new aircraft the flow up/down agreement begins and mesaba pilots may occupy mainline seats and vice versa.

Look to the LOA's over wholly owned subsidiaries for flow and seats to NWA furlough pilots to see what a XJ purchase would look like. There could be a carve out for the 36 Avro's or not. Moot point as it appears very few furlough NWA pilots are biting at Compass, even as Captain due to not getting longevity while there.

This could be a good deal for XJ's as they would get flow through (finally) and NWA pilots would have additional options if things headed south again in the future.

 

[imacdog]

Good luck guys, being owned by Delta has worked out awesome for us.

 

[kmox29]

Good luck guys, being owned by Delta has worked out awesome for us.

Precisely. I hope the Xjers are not fooled into thinking that being bought by NWA will be a good thing for them. As I said before, ask the Comair folks how well it worked out.

 

[YourPilotFriend]

ypf,

You can speculate all you want but there will not be an aircraft above 76 seats anywhere other than mainline. And the amount of 76 seaters above the avro replacements has a limit also based on how many 77-110 seat aircraft the mainline is operating. Go back to your cubicle.

You are correct, but it can be simply a matter of ownership. No one ever said another company could own the aircraft operated at mainline. In fact NWA only owns a small percentage of it's fleet any. Why would NWA buy an airplane when it can lease it out at twice its market value to its self.

You took concessions on preventing Newco from happening as far as scope relief goes; the planes were always going there anyway. That's why it was spelled out that there would be two separate seniority lists at compass. You don't think compass would be profitable operating 36 jets at a high market rate did you? If an NWA pilot is displaced from the DC-9, they go to the E195 and retain their employment with NWA. It says right in the DOT and bankruptcy dockets that compass may or may not be operated under the airlink flag.

 

[PCL_128]

Good luck guys, being owned by Delta has worked out awesome for us.

Oh, come on! Don't you know that "Being owned by Delta means everything!"

 

[YourPilotFriend]

Compass hiring minimums

Captain
ATP 1st class medical
3000hrs 121 w/minimum 500PIC turbine previous E170/190 preferred.

FO
23 yrs old
1500hrs TT
500 Xcountry
100 Night
75 sim or act

 

[Cobraair75drvr]

I think your wrong about the 195s at compass. As crappy as our contract is I read it as anything above 76 seats is flown by mainline at mainline. Of course as the 9s are replaced the new aircraft will have lower rates of pay between 25/hr to 10/hr less than the 9s, another gem in this ********************ty contract. Hopefully we will have enough attrition and growth that any current nwa pilot will be on the short bus or better and they won't have to take a paycut on top of a paycut. At least these will be manned by newhires if they can attract qualified pilots that is.

You are correct, but it can be simply a matter of ownership. No one ever said another company could own the aircraft operated at mainline. In fact NWA only owns a small percentage of it's fleet any. Why would NWA buy an airplane when it can lease it out at twice its market value to its self.

You took concessions on preventing Newco from happening as far as scope relief goes; the planes were always going there anyway. That's why it was spelled out that there would be two separate seniority lists at compass. You don't think compass would be profitable operating 36 jets at a high market rate did you? If an NWA pilot is displaced from the DC-9, they go to the E195 and retain their employment with NWA. It says right in the DOT and bankruptcy dockets that compass may or may not be operated under the airlink flag.

 

[Lear70]

At least these will be manned by newhires if they can attract qualified pilots that is.

I wouldn't worry about that one little bit.

I don't think you'll get too many EXPERIENCED MSA or PCL CA's to come over, we've had enough experience with the red tail fleet to never, ever do that again and there will be enough hiring at other majors to get a job elsewhere.

That said, your coffers will be running over with plenty of qualified applicants from other regionals who haven't paid that much attention to how NWA treats their employees (worse than UAL, DAL, and UAir combined), as well as inexperienced MSA and 9E pilots who don't know any better.

NWA won't be hurting for applications once they start accepting them. My bet is 5,000+ qualified apps in the first 30 days, just like all the other majors.

 

[Buck_Boley]

Last update: December 22, 2006 – 11:05 PM
NWA bid has big fans: Mesaba's creditors

The regional carrier's creditors committee has been sitting in on purchase negotiations.

By Liz Fedor, Star Tribune

The Mesaba Airlines creditors committee would support Northwest Airlines if it acquired Eagan-based Mesaba, and the creditors have taken part in talks for that purchase.

Because Northwest is Mesaba's "sole customer" for operating regional flights, creditors committee attorney Tim Robinson said Friday, the acquisition discussions are constructive for Mesaba.
"That obviously bodes well for the future flying and long-term viability of the enterprise," Robinson said in an interview with the Star Tribune.
He said the creditors committee has been "directly involved" in the negotiations for a Northwest-Mesaba deal over "the last couple of weeks."
Under the scenario that has been discussed, Northwest said Wednesday, it would "become the owner of Mesaba in a principally noncash transaction."
MAIR Holdings Inc. of Minneapolis is the owner of Mesaba. Northwest said in a regulatory filing Friday that it holds about one-quarter of MAIR stock -- making Northwest MAIR's largest shareholder.
Northwest acknowledged the Mesaba acquisition talks in its regulatory filing.
"The principal consideration in such an acquisition would consist of Mesaba having an allowed general unsecured claim in Northwest's bankruptcy case in an amount equal to $145 million," the Securities and Exchange Commission filing said.
Northwest declined to elaborate Friday on precisely how a deal would be structured.
Mesaba has relied on Northwest for its planes, routes and revenue. When Northwest filed for bankruptcy in September 2005 it skipped payments to Mesaba, prompting the regional carrier to file its own Chapter 11 petition a month later.
Robinson said Mesaba filed a claim of $253 million in the Northwest bankruptcy to cover a variety of financial damages, including early removal of Avro jets from Mesaba's fleet and failure to deliver 15 new regional jets to Mesaba.
Robinson said the creditors committee wants to use Imperial Capital, a California-based financial adviser, to market Mesaba's unsecured claim for a sale.
If U.S. Bankruptcy Judge Gregory Kishel gives the creditors the green light to hire the financial adviser, the next step would be to "take the highest and best bid for the claim and ask the court to approve the sale," Robinson said.
While there are about $240 million in claims on file in the Mesaba bankruptcy case, Robinson said he thinks that figure "is significantly overstated" and the allowed claims will be much smaller.
Mesaba's creditors want to use the proceeds from the sale of Mesaba's claim against Northwest to pay Mesaba's creditors, he said.

Liz Fedor • 612-673-7709 • [email protected] ©2006 Star Tribune. All rights reserved.

 

[captain dad]

I wouldn't worry about that one little bit.

I don't think you'll get too many EXPERIENCED MSA or PCL CA's to come over, we've had enough experience with the red tail fleet to never, ever do that again and there will be enough hiring at other majors to get a job elsewhere.

That said, your coffers will be running over with plenty of qualified applicants from other regionals who haven't paid that much attention to how NWA treats their employees (worse than UAL, DAL, and UAir combined), as well as inexperienced MSA and 9E pilots who don't know any better.

NWA won't be hurting for applications once they start accepting them. My bet is 5,000+ qualified apps in the first 30 days, just like all the other majors.

If all these mergers go through there will be layoffs that will make 9/11 look like a holiday vacation. Read the articles about what the airlines intend to do when the mergers are complete. The words "fleet reduction" are used every other paragraph. You go get hired at one of the mergers and you go get laid off. I hope you like flying a hammer and a bucket full of roofing nails.