Delta's reorganization and what the regionals are bidding for

[boknowsASA]

Alot of this is old news but some is new:

p.​

Regional Flying Requests for Proposals​

In July and August 2006, Delta prepared and distributed Requests for Proposals
(​

Regional Flying RFPs ) for new and existing regional flying to 14 different regional airlines,
including Comair and the other current Delta Connection carriers. The Regional Flying RFPs 50 announced that Delta was seeking bids, within a capacity purchase model, for regional flying on four bundles
of flying. As described below, two of these bundles represent new flying opportunities, and the other two would either continue or replace certain flying operated by one or more incumbent Delta Connection carriers:
New Flying:
Up to 50 new 76-seat regional jet aircraft; and
Up to 25 new Q400 or ATR 72-500 turboprop aircraft.
Continuation or Replacement Flying:
Up to 43 existing 70-seat regional jet aircraft; and
Up to 50 existing 50-seat regional jet aircraft.
The primary objective of the Regional Flying RFPs is to optimize the cost structures of the existing non-affirmed Delta Connection contracts and secure large jet and turboprop flying at market leading rates. In addition, Delta is striving to optimize the Delta Connection fleet by creating future flexibility for retiring small regional jets. The responses to the Regional Flying RFPs were submitted by October 11, 2006. Delta received approximately eight bids on each of the four portions of the Regional Flying RFPs, from a total of 13 different regional airlines. On November 21, 2006, Delta announced the first award from the Regional Flying RFPs, whereby one of the regional operators owned by SkyWest will take over operation of 12 existing 70-seat regional jets currently operated by Comair. Delta considered numerous factors when selecting SkyWest for the award, including cost savings, operational and scheduling requirements and carrier performance. The SkyWest bid reflected significantly lower labor and other controllable costs than were reflected in the Comair bid.
Delta continues to evaluate the information received in the Regional Flying RFPs process and intends to communicate all awards by the end of 2006.​

 

[Minimaniac]

... and then US Airways had to go talking merger. This has made Delta focus on different parts of reorganization as it tries to prove to its investors that it can stand alone profitably. Regional flying is just an afterthought at the moment. I would expect an answer in first quarter 2007.

I had not read that specific article before- thanks for posting. The RFP regarding the Q-400's was news to me. I have heard Continental, Frontier, and now Delta pretty much committing themselves to entering the large prop market with the Q-400. I would not be surprised if one company picks up the prop end of the deal for all three companies... economies of scale go along way towards making a new fleet type a worthwhile investment. So rumor guys... who has heard of adding Q-400's at your company?

 

[BoilerUP]

So rumor guys... who has heard of adding Q-400's at your company?

The Q400 drums have been beating at RAH, AWAC, Piedmont (obviously), Colgan, Commutair, ASA, Skywest, etc...

The Q400 is a fantastic airplane that is well suited for high-density, high-volume, sub-1.5hr segments, especially in the northeast where they keep you down low.

 

[ASAFOE120]

We've been hearing that Q 400 rumor running around ASA for as long as I've been here. Here in the last year or so we've been hearing the ATR72-500 rumor going around. It's even been over at Mercury for everyone to go see. According to the ATR program mgr, the ATR72-500 fits much better into our operation than the Q does. Operating costs on the ATR72-500 are much lower. Apparently the Q burns about the same fuel as the 200 does.

 

[Quack]

It's too bad US Air is too dumb to realize the money they could be making with these aircraft with all the short hops in the NE. Fill the seats 33% and the rest is profit. Seems too logical to me...

 

[BoilerUP]

It's too bad US Air is too dumb to realize the money they could be making with these aircraft with all the short hops in the NE. Fill the seats 33% and the rest is profit. Seems too logical to me...

Instead we fly a half-full RJ at 8000 or lower outta PHL to places like ALB, BGM, ABE, SCE, AVP, ELM, etc

 

[Quack]

DING DING DING DING....Show 'em what we got Johnny!! A heavily used 1985 Dash 8 with speed tape and putty holding the wings together! I mean come on how much longer does U and PDT think they can keep dragging these aircraft along?

 

[Tarzan]

The problem with the Turbo Prop stuff is, the only thing the pax see is that prop out there. Automatically the assumption is, old and unsafe.

Sorta hard to gauge the results of the lose long term in how many people will not want to fly an airline because they have props while the other one flying out of their two horse town has a shiny jet

 

[BoilerUP]

Sorta hard to gauge the results of the lose long term in how many people will not want to fly an airline because they have props while the other one flying out of their two horse town has a shiny jet

I bet they'll fly whichever airline has the cheaper ticket price...

 

[Sig]

Write this down, fellas:

The Q400 will never show up on PDT property. Ever.

Why give it to the highest Dash-time pilots on the planet (north of 18K in type), a company with the infrastructure to make it work seamlessly, a wholly-owned sub that you can control directly, etc. etc. etc....

Not gonna happen.

I'm doing my logbook right now. I'm out. Farrow, in his own words, gave our airline 3-4 years without new equipment. Guess what! New equipment isn't coming.

Cya.

 

[~~~^~~~]

The problem with the Turbo Prop stuff is, the only thing the pax see is that prop out there. Automatically the assumption is, old and unsafe.

True.... At one point someone wanted to help rampers identify and avoid the propeller arc. So the idea was floated to use the same markings the military uses.

However, management did not think it was such a great idea to have a vertical line that said "-- DANGER PROP --" on the side of the airplane.

ATR did a nice little pamphlet on the pollution and fuel burn of the ATR versus a RJ. They had a fuel barrell twice as large for the RJ and a garbage bag nearly three times the size of the turboprop scaled to match the differences in the per passenger operational difference.

Yesturday's USA Today had a front page article about how airline travel contributes to Global Warming and went into the differences between high altitude and low altitude pollution, contrails. etc.... Clearly this issue is in the public's consciousness and our employers could exploit the "New, Clean, efficient, money saving" aircraft. Like most things, airline management has been so focused on deal making and next week that they have failed to promote an aircraft which would benefit their operation and the passengers who buy the tickets. The people just need to be educated on how good the turboprops are.

....and I think they are more fun to fly.

 

[~~~^~~~]

On a more related note, I think 40 of ASA's 50 seaters are still on Delta's paper and subject to the bankruptcy. As such, I would consider those airplanes the first to disappear from the system - in fact, I am surprised they are still around.

It would make sense to replace those with a mix of ATR's and 70 seaters, but I'm sure the lowest bidder will prevail. The guy who ran "Crazy Eddie's Electronics" probably has more relevant skills to make deals in this environment than Hollis Harris. It is a shame they don't let folks like him run the airline.

 

[Medeco]

On a more related note, I think 40 of ASA's 50 seaters are still on Delta's paper and subject to the bankruptcy. As such, I would consider those airplanes the first to disappear from the system - in fact, I am surprised they are still around.

It would make sense to replace those with a mix of ATR's and 70 seaters, but I'm sure the lowest bidder will prevail. The guy who ran "Crazy Eddie's Electronics" probably has more relevant skills to make deals in this environment than Hollis Harris. It is a shame they don't let folks like him run the airline.

Fins,

How and why would Delta park 40 RJ's when ATL is being used at 100% + capacity already?

They wont park any until the replacement of a larger aircraft is ready to back fill seamlessly.

Latest rumor is CT told a recurrent class last week that the 4 700's that we lost, is all we are losing.

Why do you think our management is ready to get this contract done ASAP?

I think its because they cant hide airplanes from us anymore.

I spoke with the IP that is the one consulting the CNC about IP contract stuff, and one of the many things he said was that this last round of contract talks, the company sat down instantly and said , ok you can have this, this, this, and etc...

180 degree difference from what they have done in the past.

To me this means that something big is waiting to happen at ASA, and it aint bad news.

The next round will be very telling, since it will be mostly economic issues, and the company isnt going to drop to its knees like last week, but I think we are going to see good movement.

Its too easy to fall into the trap of doom and gloom, and you have allowed yourself to be a part of it.

Medeco

 

[Tarzan]

It would make sense to replace those with a mix of ATR's and 70 seaters, but I'm sure the lowest bidder will prevail.

I have to agree with you. The CRJ doesn't add to much in comparison to the two others. I am not privvy to the behind the scenes numbers but having flown both the 700 seems to make much better business sense over the 200.

The turboprops are no brainers. If they can make quieter as they supposedly did with the Q, it wouild seem to make too much sense to roll that direction. But then, many times companies have stepped over the proverbial dollar to pick up the dime. And in the long term they get burned. In the other sense, stockholders want return now not in ten years.

 

[Tarzan]

I bet they'll fly whichever airline has the cheaper ticket price...

You would think that but I've run into quite a few pax that don't go that route. Often these people have tried Southwest and haven't enjoyed the cattle experience. They then opt for the more expensive tickets.

Or they will find ways to stay away from the "little jets" because they perceive a nonexistent danger. They are my personal favorite to talk with and looks on their faces are priceless once they hear some real numbers.

Consumers are a funny breed don't alway behave according to the model. Hence my comment in regards to the prop vs. the turbo fan.

 

[RJAA]

The only place Q400 would be a perfect fit is ATL-EYW-ATL. I guess GPT and MYR wouldn't be bad because it will fly almost as fast as a jet.

 

[Flyer1015]

The primary objective of the Regional Flying RFPs is to optimize the cost structures of the existing non-affirmed Delta Connection contracts

Translation:

The primary objective of the Regional Flying RFPs is to allow management to whipsaw airline labor groups by pitting them against each other.

and secure large jet and turboprop flying at market leading rates.

Translation:

Lowest bidder takes the cake!

 

[CFIT]

On a more related note, I think 40 of ASA's 50 seaters are still on Delta's paper and subject to the bankruptcy. As such, I would consider those airplanes the first to disappear from the system - in fact, I am surprised they are still around.

I think it will be the other way around. From what I can see it appears that ASA will get even more 200's. I heard yesterday that ASA reclaimed all the 200 sim time at the ATL Flight Safety that SkyWest has been using and that beginning next month we are going to have to scramble to find sim time at other locations. But what I don't know if ASA training is structured similar to SkyWest in that all initial training is done in the 200 and then you differences training in the 700/900. Does ASA do the same or do you guys offer initial in the 700?

Either way it appars there is going to some big news popping up soon, albiet may be at others expense(sorry), with a strong rumor about a lot of aircraft for Northwest.

 

[KingAirKiddo]

In related news, Comair pilots have been instructed by ALPA leadership to remove all personal effects from company operations areas no later than December 24. Looks like there's gonna be an old-fashioned showdown right in time for all the holiday traffic.

Happy Holidays!

KAK

 

[amcnd]

I think it will be the other way around. From what I can see it appears that ASA will get even more 200's. I heard yesterday that ASA reclaimed all the 200 sim time at the ATL Flight Safety that SkyWest has been using and that beginning next month we are going to have to scramble to find sim time at other locations.

I have a friend at SkyWest that is going to ATL the second week of Jan for 2.5 weeks.

 

[Puck Mugger]

I have a friend at SkyWest that is going to ATL the second week of Jan for 2.5 weeks.

Subject to change....like everything else in the good 'ol fee for departure world.

 

[sweptback]

IBut what I don't know if ASA training is structured similar to SkyWest in that all initial training is done in the 200 and then you differences training in the 700/900. Does ASA do the same or do you guys offer initial in the 700?

Either way it appars there is going to some big news popping up soon, albiet may be at others expense(sorry), with a strong rumor about a lot of aircraft for Northwest.

Exactly, we do initial in the 200, checkride, IOE, etc. and then a transition course in the 700 if you fly that. I believe we have 3 200 sims, 1 700 sim, and another 200 sim we can buy time on for a higher rate.

 

[flyer172r]

Instead we fly a half-full RJ at 8000 or lower outta PHL to places like ALB, BGM, ABE, SCE, AVP, ELM, etc

Well, that's no worse than flying an ERJ from ORD to such exotic locations like MKE and SBN. Hint for senior management: if taking the train to your destination takes as long as the flight, you probably don't need a jet for it. Personally,I would love to see more modern turboprops come to the regionals in bigger numbers.

 

[sweptback]

The Q400/ATR RFP is news to me, however I have heard for a long time that Delta wants turboprops out West in SLC. Want to guess who's going to end up flying them?

 

[CFIT]

I have a friend at SkyWest that is going to ATL the second week of Jan for 2.5 weeks.

May still happen but definately changes for Feb. Word is that initials will be put back in SLC and PC's will go to remotes when there is time available.

 

[Smarta$$]

Alot of this is old news but some is new:

​

Delta continues to evaluate the information received in the Regional Flying RFPs process and intends to communicate all awards by the end of 2006.​

Not much time left in 2006. Any rumblings anywhere?

​

 

[TOOL CRIB]

Not much time left in 2006. Any rumblings anywhere?

[/left]

I think they intended to do this before the new year but then good ol USAir has to go try to take them over. I wouldnt expect it to be out in the next three days but who knows?

 

[tomdav]

Horizon put in a bid for the Delta Q400 flying out of SLC. Not going to happen though because we will not be the lowest bidder.

 

[~~~^~~~]

The bids were supposed to be out this week, but so far, nothing. Mesa stock took off the last couple of days, then fell back in late day trading today.

Wonder if this whole RFP was only a management trick to beat up on Comair and now the RFP will get a 45 day "extension" while the battle continues in CVG.

 

[Erlanger]

The Q400/ATR RFP is news to me, however I have heard for a long time that Delta wants turboprops out West in SLC. Want to guess who's going to end up flying them?

Horizon put in a bid for the Delta Q400 flying out of SLC. Not going to happen though because we will not be the lowest bidder.

Low bid or not, Skywest has the monopoly on all SLC flying. It wants 100% of the flying there. Skywest was able to force Shuttle out (yes, it was Skywest's doing.) and sent ASA back to ATL. Skywest has a lot of leverage with Delta and Skywest will do whatever it takes to keep the flying there for itself.