Delta Collecting Apps.

[GogglesPisano]

How long have you been in the business? Not too long I'm guessing.

Long enough to graduate from flying RJ's many years ago.

 

[SlapShot]

Wow, this thread got off topic pretty quickly.

So is Delta about to start accepting applications or not?

 

[terryhfly]

Ok that's enough of the my weener is bigger than yours. Now in the imortal words of Snoop Dog "Now back to the lecture at hand"

 

[GogglesPisano]

You guys are right. Sorry, N22.

 

[Archie Bunker]

That's not what I said. Those pilots involved in the selection process are management. They're doing management's bidding. If you don't believe that, you are sadly misinformed.

Better pull your head out of your a$$ new guy. Just who do you think "management pilots" are at Delta? That term is a bit misleading, and doesn't equate to a management pilot at....let's say UPS. The CPs, ACPs, and other assorted cats and dogs that work in ATL (sim instructors, and other pilots with ground jobs) are dues paying ALPA members, and I'll guarantee you that they do have a good memory. You very well could be interviewing with a real nice HR lady, and a Delta FO that's been with the company 8 years that just happened to volunteer to work on the hiring committee. I have a feeling that he might have a few pointed questions for you.

So, how did you like that strike pay? You're welcome.

 

[N2264J]

Better pull your head out of your a$$ new guy. Just who do you think "management pilots" are at Delta?

Same as every place else. Our Chief Pilots, Program Managers, Sim instructors and other assorted cats and dogs in Cincinnati are all dues paying ALPA members. That doesn't mean they have the same perspective as every other rank and file pilot and you know it.

...You very well could be interviewing with a real nice HR lady, and a Delta FO that's been with the company 8 years that just happened to volunteer to work on the hiring committee. I have a feeling that he might have a few pointed questions for you.

Oh, he might? And I have a question for him, the "just happened to volunteer" management wannabe. Did he ever ask his MEC why they didn't negotiate Delta furloughees be hired at Comair without resigning their seniority number? Yeah, I thought so.

So, how did you like that strike pay? You're welcome.

That strike pay helped to lift the whole profession and was part of your duty as a dues paying ALPA member. Interestingly enough, Delta pilots are the only group in the industry to give Comair pilots grief about it.

 

[80for80]

Agreed, Comair pilots will face some intense scrutiny when it comes to selection for jobs at Delta. All you can do is sumbit the app and see what happens.

When they get turned down at Delta they will have to "settle" for a job at FedEx or UPS.

 

[PCL_128]

N2264J's pathetic attempt to rewrite history aside, let's remember that not all Comair pilots made this horrendous decision. Certain members of the leadership at CMR made that decision, and the rank-and-file shouldn't be punished for it.

 

[Archie Bunker]

Same as every place else. Our Chief Pilots, Program Managers, Sim instructors and other assorted cats and dogs in Cincinnati are all dues paying ALPA members. That doesn't mean they have the same perspective as every other rank and file pilot and you know it.

Ok buddy, you just keep living in la la land, and believe what you want. I'll tell you what I do know for a fact, and that is the downright ugly stuff I've read on the DALPA boards about Comair pilots, and your odds of being hired at Delta. I can also tell you about all of the pi$$ed off Delta pilots I've flown with (junior and senior) that have a real bad taste in their mouth about the Comair guys. I think I was in recurrent when news of Comair requiring Delta pilots to resign their seniority number if they wanted a job came out. All I heard around the sims was F*ck those guys, payback is a bit*h.

So, you go ahead and keep you head buried in the sand. Everything will be just fine. Denial is a beautiful thing, isn't it?

Oh, he might? And I have a question for him, the management wannabe. Did he ever ask his MEC why they didn't negotiate Delta furloughees be hired at Comair without resigning their seniority number? Yeah, I thought so.

Bwahahahahahahaha! Oh, please do retort with a question like this. I would love to be a fly on the wall.

Why is it that we didn't have to negotiate with ASA to be treated with a micron of respect? What a jerk.

That strike pay helped to lift the whole profession and was part of your duty as a dues paying ALPA member. Interestingly enough, Delta pilots are the only group in the industry to give Comair pilots grief about it.

Geez, I wonder why you're getting grief about it. You know, I didn't have any problem paying that assessment, and helping striking Comair pilots. What I didn't expect was to be kicked in the cajones by the very same pilot group that we helped. How about a thank you? God forbid that you would actually have to show the slightest amount of appreciation to Delta pilots. How about your scumbag MEC taking the initiative to Comair management to allow furloughed Delta pilots to interview for a job at the bottom of your seniority list without having to resign their seniority at Delta? I guess that would be asking too much, especially for pilots that put food on your table. I guess I should be more understanding, since your MEC was so busy with the RJDC and all. Why wasn't this an issue with ASA, but it was with Comair?

You're exactly the kind of guy that I hope Delta never hires. I don't think I have too much to worry about, because you're the type of guy that is going to open his mouth, and insert foot during the interview (ref: your question in the second quote).

Good luck in your quest for employment at the majors....you're going to need it.

 

[FDJ2]

N2264J's pathetic attempt to rewrite history aside, let's remember that not all Comair pilots made this horrendous decision. Certain members of the leadership at CMR made that decision, and the rank-and-file shouldn't be punished for it.

You bring up an excellent point. While there is certain element who shamed themselves and their fellow pilots at CMR, like N22 and others by either associating themselves with Dan Ford and the RJDC, or by doing the RJDC's bidding, like JC did, many junior CMR pilots were just along for the ride. Although they have been remarkably silent during this whole shameful episode.

 

[Archie Bunker]

N2264J's pathetic attempt to rewrite history aside, let's remember that not all Comair pilots made this horrendous decision. Certain members of the leadership at CMR made that decision, and the rank-and-file shouldn't be punished for it.

PCL,

Your point is well taken, and I know that a lot of Comair pilots didn't support this policy. The problem is, your MEC either did support it, or did nothing to change it, and your MEC represents your rank and file. A lot of Delta pilots want to know why the rank and file didn't do anything about it. The only guys that didn't have any say in the matter were new-hire pilots on probation, without any voting rights. I'm curious, what is your take on this?

 

[737 Pylt]

Wrong? You've actually spoken with Delta pilots involved in the selection process? You have an understanding? We're all so impressed.

Yes, and thanks!

This wouldn't be the first time management blew smoke up the Delta pilot's sphincter love thing. Do you seriously believe management cares one whit about an internal union dispute? They will hire the most qualified applicants who conform to their profile. They could not care less if that applicant comes from Comair.

Hanging around with the likes of JB and DF, I'm not surprised you know so much about sphincters. The DL profile doesn't include cmr pukes like you!

While you were speaking to Delta pilots involved in the selection process, did you inquire if they asked their MEC why they didn't demand that management have the furloughees hired at Comair without having to resign their seniority number? No? The DMEC adopted a resolution directing Chairman Buergey to investigate that very item with Delta management.

Your view of hisory is as vague as your pathetic lawsuit! But keep up that spin cycle, it seems to make you and the rest of the circle jerk girls at the rjdc happy!

Result:

to offset the training costs of putting Delta furloughees in a CRJ seat, the backfill training costs to replace furloughees when they were recalled and the schedule disruption Comair would have bear if dozens of furloughees were recalled at the same time, the Delta pilots would have to give something up out of their contract and they didn't want to down that road.

Translation:
We're holding your furloughees hostage. If you weren't so pathetic it would be funny!

Solution:

get the Comair pilots to give something up out of their contract to change company policy and if they balked, smear them for being mean to the Delta furloughees even as their own MEC abandon their furloughees to maintain what was left of the contract.

Translation:
The cmr MEC thought that hiring off the street for DL was so far down the road that they weren't concerned about it. Now that the tide has turned, girls like n22 are backpeadling!

Those guys made their bed when they argued so vehemently against the PID.
We're separate. That's what they wanted. They got their wish and Comair is not an employment accumulator for Delta pilots. Go peddle your "We are entitled to a seat on your seniority list" crap to Alaska or Spirit or Midwest Express and let us all know how that turns out.

Sorry a furloughed guy from DL would take a spot on the bottom of your precious seniority list. It would have been a gesture in good faith. But what more can one expect from the cmr group.
I think its getting late, shouldn't you be getting over to your boyfriend dan's and tossing his salad!?

737

 

[PCL_128]

PCL,

Your point is well taken, and I know that a lot of Comair pilots didn't support this policy. The problem is, your MEC either did support it, or did nothing to change it, and your MEC represents your rank and file. A lot of Delta pilots want to know why the rank and file didn't do anything about it. The only guys that didn't have any say in the matter were new-hire pilots on probation, without any voting rights. I'm curious, what is your take on this?

Archie, I'm actually not a CMR pilot. I'm a pilot at Pinnacle, and a member of our MEC. I do know most of the CMR MEC members (including JC) and several of their Committee Chairs, but I didn't know them when this sorry debacle took place a few years ago. I have chosen not to bring up the subject when I talk with them simply because I don't think it's smart to focus on the past when we're trying to solve problems that are happening now (such as the CMR 1113 filing).

To be honest, from what I've seen from JC, it still surprises me that he did what he did in this case. It seems out of character. Perhaps he was still harboring resentment from what happened with the PID attempt, but I really don't know.

My opinion? I think it was a horrible thing to do that did nothing but damage any semblance of unity that existed between the CMR MEC and DALPA. Delta furloughs deserved better, and certain members of the CMR leadership turned their backs on their union brothers. JC is well known within the Association for talking about "unity" and "union brotherhood" whenever the opportunity presents itself. It certainly wasn't displayed in this case.

Now, that being said, I don't still hold it against JC or anyone else that this took place. People make mistakes (and this was a huge one), but the work of the Association has to continue. Overall, JC does excellent work for the Association and for the profession.

More importantly, the rank-and-file CMR pilots shouldn't be blamed for any of this. We have no idea how many CMR pilots complained to their MEC or tried to get this changed. You don't even know whether the other members of the MEC agreed with this policy. To focus hostilities on an entire pilot group because of the acts of a handful of leaders would be a mistake.

 

[Archie Bunker]

I think its getting late, shouldn't you be getting over to your boyfriend dan's and tossing his salad!?

737

ROTFLMAO. I just spit diet coke all over my computer screen.

Why not invite JC over and make it a menage a trois?

 

[Archie Bunker]

Archie, I'm actually not a CMR pilot. I'm a pilot at Pinnacle, and a member of our MEC. I do know most of the CMR MEC members (including JC) and several of their Committee Chairs, but I didn't know them when this sorry debacle took place a few years ago. I have chosen not to bring up the subject when I talk with them simply because I don't think it's smart to focus on the past when we're trying to solve problems that are happening now (such as the CMR 1113 filing).

I can appreciate what you are trying to do here. You want to put an ugly incident behind you (not you personally), and move on. I respect your opinion, but this act didn't affect your pilot group, or you at all. Trust me, you are looking at it in an entirely different perspective than the Delta pilots.

Perhaps he was still harboring resentment from what happened with the PID attempt, but I really don't know.

Bingo....I think you hit the nail on the head.

My opinion? I think it was a horrible thing to do that did nothing but damage any semblance of unity that existed between the CMR MEC and DALPA. Delta furloughs deserved better, and certain members of the CMR leadership turned their backs on their union brothers. JC is well known within the Association for talking about "unity" and "union brotherhood" whenever the opportunity presents itself. It certainly wasn't displayed in this case.

This is exactly why I feel (along with a bunch of other Delta pilots) that the Comair MEC and its pilots need to answer for this. I haven't heard any official explanations from the Comair MEC why this was allowed to happen.

Now, that being said, I don't still hold it against JC or anyone else that this took place. People make mistakes (and this was a huge one), but the work of the Association has to continue. Overall, JC does excellent work for the Association and for the profession.

Sorry, but a "huge mistake" (as you put it) like this will have serious repercussions. If JC or DF were real men, they would issue an official apology from the MEC for this BS. Will that ever happen? I won't hold my breath.

More importantly, the rank-and-file CMR pilots shouldn't be blamed for any of this. We have no idea how many CMR pilots complained to their MEC or tried to get this changed. You don't even know whether the other members of the MEC agreed with this policy. To focus hostilities on an entire pilot group because of the acts of a handful of leaders would be a mistake.

I respectfully disagree. The rank and file CMR pilots could have made their voice heard in LEC meetings (petitions/resolutions). Was a resolution ever voted on at any LEC meeting concerning this issue? If not, why not? I know that a lot of Delta pilots would like some answers. If something was done at the LEC level, and voted down at the MEC level, that would take a lot of the onus off of the rank and file CMR pilots. Inquiring minds would like to hear something....anything explaining these actions. When I don't hear anything, I have to assume that all CMR pilots are suspect.

 

[Lear70]

PCL,

Your point is well taken, and I know that a lot of Comair pilots didn't support this policy. The problem is, your MEC either did support it, or did nothing to change it, and your MEC represents your rank and file. A lot of Delta pilots want to know why the rank and file didn't do anything about it. The only guys that didn't have any say in the matter were new-hire pilots on probation, without any voting rights. I'm curious, what is your take on this?

Wrong tree, buddy... LOL

Originally Posted by PCL_128
Now, that being said, I don't still hold it against JC or anyone else that this took place. People make mistakes (and this was a huge one), but the work of the Association has to continue. Overall, JC does excellent work for the Association and for the profession.

That's the only problem I really have with most ALPA people... they always want to look past previous mistakes and just move on. Problem is, no one learns from their mistakes unless there are consequences.

If someone specific is to be blamed for the way this went down, and that person can be positively identified, then sorry, but you're fu*ked.

This is NOT to say that ALL CMR pilots should have this held against them. The problem there is that you can't discern the difference between someone who agreed with and went along with the policy and the rank-and-file guy who didn't like it but lacked any power to say different. You can't blame the entire group for the actions of some a*shole at the top.

Kind of like seeing certain people's names show up on the interview list at AAI or SWA. If they've screwed people over, their butt is TOAST, and rightfully so. Sets an example for everyone else to act honorably. If not, then why discriminate just because of where they worked?

Lack of repercussions and/or negative consequences is one of the top reasons the late-teen / early 20-something crowd is so fu*ked up, but there's some decent people in that group, too.

Have to take them on a case-by-case basis. Just my .02 cents which, since I don't work at DAL, won't even buy me a Starbucks.

 

[PCL_128]

That's the only problem I really have with most ALPA people... they always want to look past previous mistakes and just move on. Problem is, no one learns from their mistakes unless there are consequences.

You could certainly say that there were consequences. For instance, JC will no longer be an EVP on Jan 1st. He lost his reelection bid at the October BOD. Did his past actions in reference to his dealing with DALPA have anything to do with that? Perhaps. I really can't be sure why the guys at the other B-1 caucus airlines voted the way they did. Regardless, he will no longer sit on the Executive Council.

 

[flyboyike]

This is exactly why I feel (along with a bunch of other Delta pilots) that the Comair MEC and its pilots need to answer for this.

This brings up an interesting point. When you say "they need to answer for this", what exactly would satisfy that? Every CMR pilot hanging from a tree or what?

 

[Lear70]

You could certainly say that there were consequences. For instance, JC will no longer be an EVP on Jan 1st. He lost his reelection bid at the October BOD. Did his past actions in reference to his dealing with DALPA have anything to do with that? Perhaps. I really can't be sure why the guys at the other B-1 caucus airlines voted the way they did. Regardless, he will no longer sit on the Executive Council.

That's certainly a good start.

Speaking of which, when is the PCL MEC Chair election?

 

[Oakum_Boy]

Should I wear a double-breasted to the interview?

 

[PCL_128]

Speaking of which, when is the PCL MEC Chair election?

Late February is the next MEC meeting, and elections for all three officers are taking place then for a 2-year term that starts April 1st.

 

[Lear70]

I could go there,,, but this thread has been hijacked enough.

 

[PCL_128]

I could go there,,, but this thread has been hijacked enough.

PM maybe?

 

[Archie Bunker]

This brings up an interesting point. When you say "they need to answer for this", what exactly would satisfy that? Every CMR pilot hanging from a tree or what?

No, actually I would prefer an explanation as to what was done to condemn the policy of requiring Delta pilots to resign their seniority number before accepting a job at Comair. You know....like were there any resolutions passed at LEC/MEC meetings, or did any Comair pilots sign any petitions condemning the policy? Stuff like that....something I could quantify. To me, that would carry a lot of weight, along with backing up the claim that so many rank and file pilots at Comair were against the policy, and actually tried to do something to change it. Does that answer your question?

 

[flyboyike]

No, actually I would prefer an explanation as to what was done to condemn the policy of requiring Delta pilots to resign their seniority number before accepting a job at Comair. You know....like were there any resolutions passed at LEC/MEC meetings, or did any Comair pilots sign any petitions condemning the policy? Stuff like that....something I could quantify. To me, that would carry a lot of weight, along with backing up the claim that so many rank and file pilots at Comair were against the policy, and actually tried to do something to change it. Does that answer your question?

It does partially, thank you. And, if I may ask, in what format would that explanation have to be? Some kind of a letter signed by every CMR pilot, some kind of a website that explains it, maybe a videotaped statement from LEC/MEC members?

For the record, I don't have a horse in this race, but I'm wondering how such a deep animosity and resentment can be fixed by something that can be "quantified". If DL pilots really feel the way you say they do, I doubt anything CMR folks can do will help.

 

[On Your Six]

It does partially, thank you. And, if I may ask, in what format would that explanation have to be? Some kind of a letter signed by every CMR pilot, some kind of a website that explains it, maybe a videotaped statement from LEC/MEC members?

For the record, I don't have a horse in this race, but I'm wondering how such a deep animosity and resentment can be fixed by something that can be "quantified". If DL pilots really feel the way you say they do, I doubt anything CMR folks can do will help.

Unfortunately, my impression is that the DL pilots really do have good memories and that may impact any CMR hiring. Now, I am sure that some CMR pilots will end up getting hired via friends/family/good contacts. But, most CMR pilots will be scrutinized more than others. That is what I am hearing from my DL pals - some of whom are directly involved in the process.

The CMR guys shouldn't be too upset because there are other opportunities out there - UPS, Fedex, SWA, JetBlue, AirTran, CAL, etc.

 

[N2264J]

No, actually I would prefer an explanation as to what was done to condemn the policy of requiring Delta pilots to resign their seniority number before accepting a job at Comair. You know....like were there any resolutions passed at LEC/MEC meetings, or did any Comair pilots sign any petitions condemning the policy? Stuff like that....something I could quantify.

Who exactly, do you think you are? Comair pilots don't owe you an explanation wheather you prefer it or not. You don't believe anything we tell you anyway. But for the other curious readers here -

JC offered to carry the torch for the furloughees and have the Comair pilots bear the cost of changing company policy in exchange for Brand Scope/scope relief but was rebuffed by Buergey. Remember ALPA's highly touted, much ballyhooed fix for the race to the bottom? So how's that Brand Scope workin' out for ya?

How many furloughees are showing up at Delta when recalled? 1 in 5? 1 in 7?

Delta will hire qualified applicants who fit their profile. The fact that the applicant comes from Comair means nothing to management regardless of what the web board firebrands say. They are bullies who shore up their egos by claiming Comair pilots have to be beholden to their authority when, in fact, they have none.

And they call me pathetic.

 

[acarpe3448]

From what I have seen here, Delta thinks Comair pilots are dic$$, and Comair pilots think we are self rightous! End of story, no need to repeat it again! I have heard it for five, six years now! End of story! Let's not mix this bunch! We don't want you guys in our aircraft, and you don't want the double breasted jacket! That is fine with me! How is that RJDC lawsuit going?

 

[PCL_128]

JC offered to carry the torch for the furloughees and have the Comair pilots bear the cost of changing company policy in exchange for Brand Scope/scope relief but was rebuffed by Buergey.

I didn't want to be the one to bring this up, but the above is exactly why many people have trouble trusting JC to this day. He attempted to hold DAL furloughs hostage in order to secure scope relief from DALPA. Absolutely despicable. Thank God Buergey stood his ground.

 

[FDJ2]

JC offered to carry the torch for the furloughees and have the Comair pilots bear the cost of changing company policy in exchange for Brand Scope/scope relief but was rebuffed by Buergey. Remember ALPA's highly touted, much ballyhooed fix for the race to the bottom?

Source? Or just more BS. Keep back pedalling N22.

Yet another nice try at revisionist history. The CMR pilots didn't need to "carry any torch". A simple letter stating that they supported the hiring of furloughed pilots with out seniority resignation would have been fine, and shown the world where the CMR pilots stood on the isuue. Instead, the CMR pilots issued a letter stating that they supported the company's policy requiring seniority resignation by furloughed ALPA pilots.